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Be honest-- deep down, are you afraid of God? - Page 2  

post #21 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adele_Mommy View Post
Another thing to consider is that it is actually perfectly in line with Christian thought to feel fear of God. God is supposed to be so awe-inspiring, so overwhelming, that part of what people feel for Him is fear. "Fear of God" is all over the place in the Bible as a good thing
Yes, it is "fear" in a different sense. Absolute and unvarying Love allows for perfect trust, but it is still overwhelming in many ways.

C. S. Lewis once used this quote from Wind in the Willows to illustrate the idea. Rat and Mole are about to meet the animal kingdom's god:
Quote:
"Rat," he found breath to whisper shaking, "Are you afraid?"

"Afraid?" murmured the Rat, his eyes shining with unutterable love, "Afraid!? Of …Him? Oh never, never! …..And yet – and yet - oh, Mole, I am afraid!"
post #22 of 35
Yeah i guess, but my fear stems from God's reaction to my actions......
post #23 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by LionTigerBear View Post
Hope that wasn't confusing. I'm not going to spend any more time trying to clarify it though, because I don't want to get into a doctrinal discussion here-- I am comfortable with my belief system, and not interested in changing your mind if you are comfortable with yours-- but suffice to say, my emotional issues were certainly not caused nor abetted by my present religion.
not confusing at all, and i knew that would be your take. i didn't mean to get doctrinal either, i just remembered this article because it was very defining for me as to why the god i had been taught about didn't fit at all in my worldview, and probably never had. my fear of god, and resolving that fear has led me on a tumultuous loss of faith and evolution and that's my story, not something i meant to suggest for you, but something i couldn't help but post about because it hit so close to home.

it's not about nitpicking and debating your religion's specific word for word doctrine --it's the big debate and defining factor between many religions -- is god good or scary? and of course christians can debate this tooth and nail with opposite and overlapping conclusions.

as for your denial that your present religion doesn't add fuel to your emotional issues, i just would like to respectfully point out that just as you tend to punish yourself in re-creation of your childhood, you could very well be subconsciously abetting your emotional issues with the concept that man is not saved by grace alone and maybe that's a good thing to explore with your counselor.

we subconciously recreate our childhoods in our adult choices because it's familiar and comforting to us -- even if it makes for bad feelings and low self-worth. it just seems so common sense to me that if your god requires certain things of you, and you are used to a low sense of self-worth, then you will probably tend to fear that god might notice your perceived faults, which is basically exactly what you're saying.

childhood aside i would mostly think your fear is completely normal, and is experienced to some extent by most people who ever been held accountable by any authority figure.

anyhow, i think you're hiding and kidding yourself with the hypnosis idea.....now i'll quickly jump on this idea that i can do by myself in the privacy of my home and no one will know about it that will make my fear and shameful feelings magically disappear so i can feel worthy to start praying to god again. i think you thoroughly need to investigate the underlying issues instead of hypnotizing them out of existance.

my only concrete suggestion would be to continually pray to god: "i feel so afraid of you, i don't like the way i'm feeling," and see what happens.

post #24 of 35
LionTigerBear: You are not alone. I used to feel exactly the same way, for very similar reasons you described. My parents were not abusive, but I felt I had to 'earn' their love, and in order to do that, I had to be perfect. That feeling transferred over to my perception of God, and it stayed that way up until about two months ago.

What changed it for me? Well, I started saying the rosary, which is a simple but lovely way of meditating on the mysteries of Christ's life. As I meditated in particular on the deep anguish, pain and betrayal He faced at the end of his life, it really started to sink in for me (for the first time) how much this Being must really love us-- to go through all that, simply for our own benefit. The saints tell us that He saw us all individually at that time-- He saw me, and He saw you (which was a revelation to me-- up till then I always thought His sacrifice was more of a "for all of collective humanity" thing, and that if it were just my soul on the line, He would totally pass on the idea of dying for me. I wasn't "worth" it, I thought, because I wasn't perfect. You can see how my thought process was a weeee bit skewed by low self esteem, LOL!).

Long story short: I think that the key to reversing almost 30 years of "I have to be perfect or God will hate/punish me" was that I stopped projecting my ingrained fears on Him-- I dropped my preconceived fears that, in all actuality, had nothing to do with Him but were all in my own head. And I replaced it with a contemplation of His actions and words, i.e. the stuff He said/did in scripture. After all, that's how you get to know a person best, isn't it? You look at what they do, as it tells you who they are. We can never hope to comprehend the Incomprehensible, of course, but if you look at what we know of the life of Christ (and specifically His death), you can see that this was someone who gave without stipulations, who did not just give love and mercy to a chosen few, but instead freely associated with those who'd been condemned by society as immoral and bad-- the unworthy! The very sort of people we have spent our life fearing we are/were. Indeed, it's interesting to note that the only people he spoke to with austerity were those who saw themselves as blameless and sin-free-- in other words, the proud. Christ, being so humble, asks us to adopt humilty in lieu of such pride. But-- and this is important for someone like us to remember-- humilty does not equate to self-loathing; and if you're ever tempted to think otherwise, remember His command to us, to love our neighbor as we love ourselves. You're not going to do a good job of that if you absolutely loathe yourself, right? So we can infer from that that you are indeed lovable, or He wouldn't have given you such a command.

Whew! I'm getting pretty deep here.

I'll just wrap up by saying that I reinforced this change of heart I experienced by reading books and quotes from the saints, whose insights are simply invaluable. The one that's been most interesting so far has also been the most mystical (but what do you expect when you're dealing with God?): "Diary of Saint Maria Faustina Kowalska: Divine Mercy in My Soul" It made me realize even more how vast God's love and mercy is for us.

Hope all that helps, but in any event, LionTigerBear, I hope you find the peace you're looking for soon! Us recovering perfectionists need all the help we can get, because boy, that thought process of "must be perfect, must earn love" is downright EXHAUSTING.

Sending hugs and prayers your way...
post #25 of 35
I was before I was set free of my sin. In the Bible those who do not know God are told to fear Him, as He is their only hope. Once a person is made whole in Christ there is no reason to fear, unless they have turned their back on Him and rejected the only way.

Rom 8:15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.

1Jo 4:18 There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love.
post #26 of 35
I can't say I fear God because I don't. I don't much consider him my Father either. I consider him an important friend that walks with me on my journey. God is there with me...not over me. That's how I see it. I don't think perfection is in God's dictionary...it's in man's.

What may help you is to (if it's possible) look back at how your mother was raised. I can see how some of the way my parents are is based on how they were raised. It helped remind me they got shaped because of that and if I'd had some of their trials, maybe I'd be different too, etc. It helps with perspective.
post #27 of 35
Thread Starter 
InchbyInch, that was really helpful and awesome. Thank you for sharing! I remember one woman at church once told me, "If you had been the only one Jesus would have done it just for you." That's a hard concept for me to comprehend but it's amazing and wonderful when I allow it to sink in.

Today I will be thinking, "humility good, self-loathing bad".

For whatever reason, probably just from thinking about it so much, I've been doing so much better-- yesterday was a good praying day-- and I'm feeling so much better about it. I guess sometimes it's just helpful to think it out instead of ignoring a problem and hoping it goes away.
post #28 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by AprilDaisy View Post
I can't say I fear God because I don't. I don't much consider him my Father either. I consider him an important friend that walks with me on my journey. God is there with me...not over me. That's how I see it. I don't think perfection is in God's dictionary...it's in man's.

What may help you is to (if it's possible) look back at how your mother was raised. I can see how some of the way my parents are is based on how they were raised. It helped remind me they got shaped because of that and if I'd had some of their trials, maybe I'd be different too, etc. It helps with perspective.
I would agree.
post #29 of 35
Yes, deep down I'm afraid of God, or more accurately, afraid of going to hell. Intellectually, like you, I'm not, but I was raised as a traditional Catholic, and fear of hell was very much part of my religious instruction.
post #30 of 35
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChasingPeace View Post
Yes, deep down I'm afraid of God, or more accurately, afraid of going to hell. Intellectually, like you, I'm not, but I was raised as a traditional Catholic, and fear of hell was very much part of my religious instruction.
Thank you for sharing. At least I'm not the ONLY one. There're at least three of us! (Or was it four? I forget now . . . )
post #31 of 35
momma4fun~ I find your posts very interesting as that is not my take on the quote you gave from Ballard or the gospel in general. I am an ex-ex-Mormon as well so I have seen "the other side" . It sounds like your upbringing did you an injustice with relation to God, not the gospel teachings themselves. Your situation seems a lot like LTBs, actually, and I've seen it before from a lot of different religions and within homes. People think of fear as a tool to doing the right thing. My aunt once said to me that it is important that your children fear you so they do what they are told. People take this and wrongly so have their children fear God thinking then and only then they will be motivated to do the right thing. Sin is an opportunity to grow. Repentance is strengthening. Lifting weights and eating right may be a pain the butt but it helps us in more ways then one.

ETA- LTBs quote a few posts up is perfect for what I am trying to say here- "humility good, self-loathing bad". We shouldn't be beating ourselves up over sin or fearing hellfire and damnation we should be learning from it and striving to do better.

My take on my Heavenly Father in relation to the gospel is this- He is loving but we can't think that just because He loves us we are getting a free pass (hence the "God's love isn't unconditional" comment). It would be a lot easier on all of us here and now to believe that but to me in the long run it doesn't lead to progression. We are here to learn and grow (in my mind) and having everything handed to us or easy is not going to facilitate that. I won't always dress and bathe my children. They need to do it themselves. And if they don't there are just naturally going to be consequences. True love is when someone loves you enough to push you further. Sometimes that hurts but within that pain is a great opportunity to learn and grow.

In His commandments and sternness is God's love, LTB. Contrary to your parents (and even my mother) who were doing it for their own gain. Remember that- He does what he does for you to return to Him, your parents didn't. Therein lies the difference.

ETA (again)- I forgot to address your "perfect" comment of a while back, it's not about being perfect as we will never ever attain that it is about striving for perfection. We are simply asked to do OUR best, not Sister So-and-so's best but our own and that is between God and us. Don't let Mormon culture (which I would like to not have to take part in : ) confuse you with the gospel. They are not the same. We aren't suppose to be perfect cookie cutter images of the perfect Molly Mormon or Peter Priesthood- we are to be our own people and strive to be the perfected version of such. It is going to be different for everyone. It's suppose to be.
post #32 of 35
Thread Starter 
Love your post, Maggie. Thank you for sharing your thoughts!
post #33 of 35
Flower Essences:

I would say either Aspen or Mimulus-though lean towards Mimulus b/c you can identify what it is you are feeling afraid of. Aspen is more of vague phobia.



I can totally relate. It took me years and years of journeying and reassuring myself that God was not out to judge me (or rather the devil out to get me).

I send you lots of love mama-I know it's hard, but I also know that you are good and deserve to be loved by God, and yourself.

I believe we are a part of God and when I feel connected to my Godself the amount of love and compassion is limitless. I also second the idea of hypno-therapy. I do it by myself sometimes. Revisit a childhood time when I was particularly sad or upset and I speak to my child self, reassuring her that everything is okay and telling her how beautiful the world is and whisper all the sweet things in her ear I was longing to hear.
post #34 of 35
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by flowers View Post
I also second the idea of hypno-therapy. I do it by myself sometimes. Revisit a childhood time when I was particularly sad or upset and I speak to my child self, reassuring her that everything is okay and telling her how beautiful the world is and whisper all the sweet things in her ear I was longing to hear.
Oh, what a sweet idea. Thank you for this and for your flower essence suggestion!
post #35 of 35
Thread Starter 
So, I've been finding a lot of peace in the songs of Jenny Phillips (you can find her songs on iTunes). I think music can reach my heart on a level other words just can't. Right now I especially like "Every Breath" and "I Call Your Name". Here're the parts of the lyrics that especially speak to me.

Every Breath

His hands are catching your tears
And even without any words
He hears
You feel so far
But He’s right where you are
And He knows
Every breath
Every pain
He knows your heart and
He knows your name
Giver of life
The light in your soul
Oh come home
Come rest
Let Him bless
Your every breath

Silent your voice and be still
And even without any words
You will feel
You think you’re far
But He lives in your heart
And He knows
Every breath . . .
~ * ~


I Call Your Name

Maker, I call Your name
And I feel the breath of life that You gave
Move inside me
It reminds me
I was molded and shaped Your hands
You make me all that I am
And in this quiet moment I long to know You more
And what the name Maker is for

Healer, I call Your name
And inside I feel the dawn of a new day
And Your holy peace
Binds up all that’s weak
I have found a place of refuge in Your arms
There’s a peace and there’s a healing where you are
And in this quiet moment I begin to know You more
And what the name Healer is for

Savior, I call Your name
How you rescue me, oh how You save
You have gone below
You rose up with hope
And Your wondrous love is pouring over me
It’s more than my spirit can receive
And in this quiet moment I begin to know You more
And what the name Savior is for
~ * ~

Thanks for letting me share.
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