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Reasons to skip dtap?  

post #1 of 20
Thread Starter 
My DD is 3 weeks old and I've been researching vaccines since I got pregnant. Based on my research, I'm at the point where I'm not comfortable giving her any vaccines.
We went to her 2 week WBV with a family practice dr that we heard was accepting of alternative vaccine schedules. He strongly recommended we get the dtap vaccine.
My DH is a very busy grad student and he just doesn't have the time to do research on vaccines. He is concerned and wants to follow the dr's advice and give her the dtap.
Unfortunately, I didn't bookmark most of the articles I read, and I borrowed several books from the library that I don't have anymore...I know I don't want to give her dtap, but I'm not sure how to convince DH.
I know a lot of members here are like encyclopedias of vaccine knowledge, so I'm hoping you all can help me out and give me a list of reasons why we should skip dtap that I can share with my DH. (the dr and my DH are primarily concerned about pertussis.)
TIA - these forums are great!!
post #2 of 20
That vaccine is connected with SIDS.

Also if you have a history of seizures in yours or your DH's family you shouldn't get it.

Thats all I got.. but it was good enough for me.
post #3 of 20
Also, the pertussis portion of the vax is not very good. It often doesn't work, and doesn't prevent transmission to others.
post #4 of 20
Pertussis is mainly a concern up to age 6 months and the child will not be considered immune until 3 shots at which time the child will be 6 months anyway. So, there is no protection before that.

It is the most reactive vaccine on the market and linked to SIDS without a doubt. Check out when most SIDS cases occur an check out when the vaccine is given. It can't be coincidence over and over and over .....


But I would strongly advice to take an hour and see this video. You might be very sorry that you have given any vaccines after seeing it. It is normal to not vaccinate. We are not born with a need for vaccines. So you can wait and trust the immune system. I hope you are bf, since that does pass on whatever immunity you have and protect the child until you no longer bf and child is able to build immunity.


Here is the video -

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...uCQ&q=vaccines
post #5 of 20
wiggly baby- forgive shortness

low efficacy

high reactivity

-Angela
post #6 of 20
DTaP

http://www.mothering.com/discussions...ht=DTaP+scream

The scream is called cry-encephalitis. The cause is infection of the brain from the vaccine virus/bacteria.
When the body is injected with virus/bacteria it can travel to the brain and cause encephalitis.
Encephalitis can be a reaction to any vaccine but the DTaP is notorious for it.

Encephalitis without being vaccinated generally follows an illness.
When it happens due to an illness, the doctor will treat it in the correct way.

But when you call and give the exact same symptoms and the doctor knows the child has just been vaccinated, he will tell you it is a normal reaction to the vaccine and will simply say to give the child some tylenol.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
It has been established that pertussis and measles-containing vaccines cause encephalitis. For the purposes of VICP guidelines, onset of encephalitits from pertussis-containing vaccines is 24-48 hours and between day five and fifteen for the MMR, M, MR and R vaccines.


From the Vaccine Injury Compensation Program in the late 80's:

The neurologic signs and symptoms of encephalopathy may be temporary with complete recovery or may result in various degrees of permanent impairment.

Signs and symptoms such as high-pitched and unusual screaming, persistent inconsolable crying, and bulging fontanel are compatible with an encephalopathy, but in and of themselves are not conclusive evidence of encephalopathy
. Encephalopathy usually can be documented by slow wave activity on an electroencephalogram.


Today it reads:

The following clinical features alone, or in combination, do not demonstrate an acute encephalopathy or a significant change in either mental status or level of consciousness as described above: Sleepiness, irritability (fussiness), high-pitched and unusual screaming, persistent inconsolable crying, and bulging fontanelle. Seizures in themselves are not sufficient to constitute a diagnosis of encephalopathy. In the absence of other evidence of an acute encephalopathy, seizures shall not be viewed as the first symptom or manifestation of the onset of an acute encephalopathy.

FTR, they have put a name to this adverse reaction: Crying Syndrome or Screaming Syndrome.

Now to put things into perspective -- how many parents of the of the signficiant number children who have experienced this type of reaction are told to go to the emergency room in order to do the necessary testing for encephalitis?

In just a ten year period (1991-2001), there were 10,000 reports of unusual crying and screaming syndrome. Just in this period alone. Couple that with the fact that just a tiny amount of vaccine adverse events are even reported . . .~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

This is the neurologist concensus from the early 90's :
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...&dopt=Citation

In evaluating side-reactions to the vaccine, the following must be kept in mind: 1. Vaccines are not standardized between manufacturers. 2. For a given manufacturer, vaccines are not standard from one batch to the next. 3. Unless the vaccine is properly prepared and refrigerated, its potency and reactivity varies with shelf life. In fact, the whole question of vaccine detoxification has never been systematically investigated. Listed in order of increasing severity, observed adverse reactions include irritability, persistent, unusually high pitched crying, somnolence, seizures, a shock-like "hypotensive, hyporesponsive" state, and an encephalopathy. Since the neurologic picture is not specific for pertussis vaccination, its temporal relationship to the vaccination is the critical variable for determining causation. Although the majority of seizures following pertussis vaccination are associated with fever, it was the consensus of the neurologists attending the workshop, that these do not represent febrile convulsions, but are non-benign convulsions. The incidence of post-vaccine encephalopathy is difficult to ascertain.(ABSTRACT TRUNCATED AT 250 WORDS)


post #7 of 20
Diptheria and Tetnus did not concern me. Pertussis can be dangerous in young babies but as previous posters have said, you do not confer immunity (theoretically) until after the 6 month shot anyway when it becomes less dangerous. The Pertussis component of the DTaP is highly reactive and is of questionable efficacy anyway. Look at the WC threads on here and you will see many moms whose kids got WC and their children were vaccinated.

Here is a little tidbit about the pertussis component (which is the most dangerous). The ONLY saftey tests that have been done in the last 50 years has been the "mouse weight gain test".
Quote:
"Testing laboratory staff inject vaccine into the abdomens of mice, then weigh them regularly. If the mouse loses lots of weight, apparently the vaccine is more likely to cause brain damage in your child. (Corbel, M.J. et al. 2004. "Toxicity and potency evaluation of pertussis vaccines". Expert Rev. Vaccines 3(1): 89-101. PMID: 14761246.
Quote:
Kendrick test for effectiveness:
Staff will use several groups of mice and inject into their brains different amounts of whooping cough bacteria several times, until they establish the exact amount that will kill exactly half of the injected mice.
When the right dose is established they use two new groups of mice. Group A is injected with the vaccine. Group B get none. After a few weeks the exact amount of bacteria that killed half the mice is then injected into every mouse's brain.
Then they watch the mice. In the unvaccinated group, presumably half the mice die. In the vaccinated group, if fewer mice die than in the unvaccinated group, then they assume that vaccine is going to work in your baby.
The Kendrick test is supposed to "correlate with protection" or prove that the vaccine works. Which is patently a nonsense. The biggest proof of that stares you right in the face. Vaccinated babies and children catch whooping cough. Another proof is the fact that the number of injections you are told your child needs increases every few years. The article says that the Kendrick test is inadequate. So even they must see that it isn't relevant to humans."--Just A Little Prick by Peter and Hilary Butler p. 116
Sounds real scientific doesn't it?? Ill take my chances with WC thanks.

PS my good friend's hairdresser's baby dies 14 hours after her DTaP shot. They called it "SIDS" .....
post #8 of 20
Quote:
In the unvaccinated group, presumably half the mice die. In the vaccinated group, if fewer mice die than in the unvaccinated group, then they assume that vaccine is going to work in your baby.
post #9 of 20
What is seldom addressed is that the placebo for testing a vaccine is never a true placebo as you would expect, such as sterile water. It is always another vaccine. If the placebo vaccine has 10 deaths per whatever... and the test vaccine has within the same deaths, then the new vaccine is considered safe.

What other medicine has such a testing method?

Why don't they use the 'Golden Standard' of testing vaccines as they do with all other medicine? Because it would reveal the true nature of vaccines.


Trust no study unless you have corrupted it yourself.
post #10 of 20
Sounds like this is the pediatrician's pet vaccine . They always have one! They get you to give one, they'll get you to give others.
post #11 of 20
Thread Starter 
Thank you for your help...now I'm even more convinced that we should skip this vaccine!

Yes, I am breastfeeding her and she won't be in daycare, so I know those things lower her risk of exposure anyway.

I remember reading somewhere that pertussis usually peaks in the late summer - is that true and does anyone know of a source for that? my DD will be older than 6 months by next summer anyway.

I'll share this info with my DH, I think it should be pretty convincing - Gitti - thanks for the link to the video - very scary! - I'll definitely watch that again with my DH.

I'm so so so glad I found all this info about vaccines before my DD was born
post #12 of 20
Yes, whooping cough is mostly seen in early fall. You can just google it. It's in all Medical sites.

I don't want to post any of them because of their conflict of interest. They can't just give honest information, they got to include their sales pitch every time. Healthy kids will absolutely die without their shots.

(their=big pHARMa)

Wonder how we managed to survived through all those generations and overpopulate at that?

But yes, it is seen (or heard) predominantly in early Fall.

My tree cousins had it and I played with them but never got it. Funny....
post #13 of 20
SIDS - common side effect as evidenced by a study done in Los Angeles County in 1986-7 by the UCLA School of Public Health.
post #14 of 20
I'm not good at dissecting research studies but I can tell you what happened to our family over this Christmas holiday:

(Posted also in another thread) My 5 month old nephew just recently had his DTaP and had a severe reaction

Within 24 hours of his Dtap my nephew had multiple seizures and then turned blue and floppy with purple lips and lost consciousness. After hospitalization he continued to have seizures and had to undergo spinal taps, MRIs and EEGs. He is now on phenobarbitol -anti-seizure medication that he must take for at least the next six months, he has multiple doctor appointments, and his mom has to cart around an oxygen tank on wheels in case he has another episode.



If you are having any doubts at all, don't do it. I remembering starting to question vaccines for my first son but not trusting my instinct. Then my son had a febrile seizure around the time after the MMR. I decided to do more research. At first I decided to delay while I researched each vaccine. My goal was for the research to convince me that the benefits of the vaccine outweighed the risks. Here we are three years later, and we don't feel the benefits outweigh the risks for our family...
post #15 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by ericswifey27 View Post
I'm not good at dissecting research studies but I can tell you what happened to our family over this Christmas holiday:

(Posted also in another thread) My 5 month old nephew just recently had his DTaP and had a severe reaction

Within 24 hours of his Dtap my nephew had multiple seizures and then turned blue and floppy with purple lips and lost consciousness. After hospitalization he continued to have seizures and had to undergo spinal taps, MRIs and EEGs. He is now on phenobarbitol -anti-seizure medication that he must take for at least the next six months, he has multiple doctor appointments, and his mom has to cart around an oxygen tank on wheels in case he has another episode.
:


If you are having any doubts at all, don't do it. I remembering starting to question vaccines for my first son but not trusting my instinct. Then my son had a febrile seizure around the time after the MMR. I decided to do more research. At first I decided to delay while I researched each vaccine. My goal was for the research to convince me that the benefits of the vaccine outweighed the risks. Here we are three years later, and we don't feel the benefits outweigh the risks for our family...


Oh your poor nephew !! I hope no lasting damage was done. I hope his mom starts to research vaccines now and stops!!!
post #16 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marnica View Post
Oh your poor nephew !! I hope no lasting damage was done. I hope his mom starts to research vaccines now and stops!!!
As do I.

But annoys me however is, you are not supposed to get the DTaP if you have a history of seizures in your family. I bet they didn't tell the mom that did they? They never told me either. Thankfully my older girls seem OK. Your son's seizure might have been enough for your sister (SIL?) not to give that shot to your nephew had she actually been truly informed.
post #17 of 20
I would tell your dh that if he doesn't have time to research it he either has to accept your research or push off vaccines till he has done research. As a parent you have a responsibility to make informed decisions. His is not an informed decision. Just tell him that, he can't argue with it.
post #18 of 20
DTaP seems to be everyone's pet vaccine at the moment. Say that you want just the DT because of previous experience with the P, and they'll tell you that it's the P that you really need!

Don't tell me that the 32 minute convulsion *I* had was a typical febrile convulsion. They don't normally last that long. My little sister had a similar reaction.

And yet the doctors say that vaccine reactions are not hereditary...

With the DTaP, the CDC said they were hereditary until '07. Go fig.

I loved one of the responses I got from the health department. "Those reactions don't happen." "Well, I had one of those reactions." "Well, I've been doing this for 25 years and have never seen a reaction to a vaccine, so they don't happen."

Sorry, that's my semi-related rant for the day. Seeing all these posts about other kids having seizures is scaring me more and more with the way they keep trying to force it on my son.
post #19 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by CookAMH View Post
Sounds like this is the pediatrician's pet vaccine . They always have one! They get you to give one, they'll get you to give others.
Yep. My baby is going to die of Hib according to my doc. :
post #20 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gitti View Post

I hope you are bf, since that does pass on whatever immunity you have and protect the child until you no longer bf and child is able to build immunity.

Is there a study or article detailing about breastfeeding and protection from pertussis? Please share!!! Thank you!!
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