Honest Questions for Christians

[bmcneal]

Disclaimer: I am being completely honest with my question. I am not trying to start an argument, I would rather not be flamed (although I could understand, I suppose, if you feel the need...), I just want to know. Thank you

What do you do when things are going rough? Like, when everything is going wrong, and you've prayed about it, and done all the stuff you are "supposed" to do, like tithe, pray, attend church, treat other people well, etc?

Why and or how do you continue to believe that God is/will take care of you, when he hasn't/isn't?

What do you do when God *does* give you more than you can handle?

The reason I ask is this. I have affiliated myself with the Christian faith for as long as I can remember. And for as long as I can remember, things have been *very* hard. I understand life is not easy. I understand things are not handed to you on a silver platter, and that has never been what I have ever expected. I have been abused by nearly everyone who was supposed to "care" for me. I have been homeless, had to send my daughter to stay with her grandparents for almost a year of her 3 years of being with us, and basically everything that could possibly go wrong, has. I prayed about it, read the bible, trusted God would protect me and care for me. But he has not. I have prayed that God would take the burden from my shoulders, help me cope with the hard things. I have survived everything I have been through, yes. But I honestly do not feel God has had any, if much, hand in it.

Right now, I am trying to figure out what I believe. My experiences and research at this point tell me that the Christian faith is flawed, and God is not so loving and protecting as one may be led to believe. I am not trying to say Christians are wrong. I do not know what I believe at this point. I am just curious as to what some of you might have to say in regards to the questions I have posed. Thank you.

[griffin2004]

No flames here. Your questions and concerns are obviously sincere.

Is it possible that God has blessed you and helped and cared for you in ways that are hard to recognize when life has whipped you raw? I would never insult you with platitudes, but I see several blessings in your signature line alone.

[Theoretica]

Originally Posted by griffin2004

Is it possible that God has blessed you and helped and cared for you in ways that are hard to recognize when life has whipped you raw? I would never insult you with platitudes, but I see several blessings in your signature line alone.

OP I can totally identify. Yours is one of the many reasons I ended up leaving the faith entirely. I hope you continue to explore your beliefs and arrive at a destination that brings you genuine comfort and peace, whether it is within the faith or anywhere else. There are a LOT of great books on this subject, please PM me if you are interested in some titles.

To Griffin: Why would God allow life to be so incredibly difficult that she questions the entire premise of her faith? Wouldn't it make the most sense that God would bless her in ways that are easily recognized...like preventing life from having whipped her raw in the first place? Yes, clearly she has things that bring meaning and joy to her life...but to call them 'blessings' means God is responsible for their existence, and for 'allowing' her to have them in the first place. If God is responsible for the existence of things that bring her joy and peace, God is also responsible for the existence of things that take that joy and peace away. The entire premise of the Christian faith is (to summarize) that A) Jesus died to save us all from our own sin and B) Prayer (or a personal relationship w/God) works to our own personal benefit.

[TzippityDoulah]

Originally Posted by bellevuemama

To Griffin: Why would God allow life to be so incredibly difficult that she questions the entire premise of her faith? Wouldn't it make the most sense that God would bless her in ways that are easily recognized...like preventing life from having whipped her raw in the first place? Yes, clearly she has things that bring meaning and joy to her life...but to call them 'blessings' means God is responsible for their existence, and for 'allowing' her to have them in the first place. If God is responsible for the existence of things that bring her joy and peace, God is also responsible for the existence of things that take that joy and peace away. The entire premise of the Christian faith is (to summarize) that A) Jesus died to save us all from our own sin and B) Prayer (or a personal relationship w/God) works to our own personal benefit.

I'm not sure I understand your last premise... why would our happiness be promised to us? We are created to glorify Him, not the other way around. Our happiness comes from glorifying Him, not the other way around. but... again... this is a personal thing.

OP - My heart goes out to you! why would anyone flame such a sincere question? I have asked that question so many many times. esp during a time when my marriage was terrible, my daughter was born very sick and we were poor as dirt with no way to pay our bills. but.. there have been many other things too. (like why was I abused physically, emotionally and sexually as a child/teen? etc...)

I have many times said to God "where are you!?!? don't you care!?"

but through time I believe God has shown me a simply, and hard to swallow thing. We are not here for our own happiness. We can hate god over that one. we can bang out fists to the ground. we can refuse to except it... but it doesn't change it.

It is a very popular pop-christian culture ideal to promise that if we follow God we will be happy. we will have all our needs met etc etc etc... but this is ridiculous and a false promise to hand people. take for instance SO many people in the Bible... the jews is Egypt all the way through Stephen and Paul who were martyred for their beliefs. don't you think they prayed and cried out to God and were sincere? Where was God for them? well I think they found the true answer that many of us find very very hard to except - they knew true happiness comes from our hearts seeking God in every way. True contentment will never be found in this world. the world is a sinful place and it's diseased with greed and lust and malice... look how jesus himself suffered! if anyone deserves contentment and security in this world it would be the son of the creator!

I will not pretend I don't question God. I wont pretend I don't get angry and frustrated and feel so lost sometimes. I do. I really do. But it is through these weaknesses we are made strong.

I completely understand your need to question God about all of this. even question His existence. But take it to Him. Do not fall for that easy believism of pop-christainity that God will bless us all here on earth in any particular way. Each person needs to reckon this with God. seeking out truth and answers from him... not from modern (ridiculous) philosophies.
and please don't get the idea I don't believe in a loving and caring God, b/c I do! but how he cares for us is often in a way we a human's have a hard time comprehending. sometimes it is hard to have prospective to see the many blessings he does allow to flow your way. esp when it's blocked by the pain the world has issues out to you.

[saintmom]

My understanding,and I think it's a common thread in the three monotheistic religions,is that God is always with us if we just seek Him.Doesn't mean it's always easy,or even makes sense.
Why do some folks seem to get all the blessings and others suffer terribly?I have no answer for that one.I do know it leaves us(those with resources to share) with a huge responsibility to help others in need.

[Adele_Mommy]

I am not Christian and never was, but I wanted to respond and I promise not to be argumentative. Have you read The Book of Job in its entirety? The whole theme of this book is about bad things happening to good people. Most people know the general idea of the book, but there is a long section where scholars debate about what is happening to Job and why. I believe the final conclusions are similar to what HennyPenny says, but it is very interesting and enlightening to read the whole argument including Job's perspective.

I personally don't find Job satisfying or particularly comforting, but I know that many people do. If you read it you may find it helpful in reconciling Christianity (and yes, I know this is an OT book) to what has happened to you, or you may find it pushes you another step away from Christianity. If the latter, you could explore other religions that have different views on suffering. Buddhism comes to mind. Note that I don't agree particularly with the Buddhist view of suffering either, but suffering - why it happens and how to deal with it, is a big theme in Buddhism and many many people have found it helps them.

Just for full disclosure: I am Unitarian Universalist.

I'm sorry you've had such a hard time. I hope you find something that comforts and supports you.

[Mosaic]

I don't have anything particularly insightful to share with you, but your question struck a chord with me and I had to respond. I once felt as you did: I was very very sick at the time, miserable, and fed-up with trying so hard and being met with only frustration. I finally reached the point where I told God to bug off, He wasn't there for me, He wasn't helping me, He wasn't listening to me, and I resent Him for pretending to care or filling my head with thoughts that anyone was going to help me out of this but me. I rejected Him wholly and completely and removed Him from my life.

3 days later I came crawling back begging for forgiveness, and I received it. As a scientist I fully admit that this sounds like some hokey story you'd hear on a late-night preachy tv show. But it's the truth. When you feel that you very really and truly have nothing, God gives you hope, a chance, the possibility. That is something in and of itself. Aside from that, over the years I've had other experiences and done additional research that have me convinced there are solid reasons for believing in God and Christ.

Faith is a journey, and certainly not an easy one. I wish you luck on yours.

[cappuccinosmom]

Why and or how do you continue to believe that God is/will take care of you, when he hasn't/isn't?

What do you do when God *does* give you more than you can handle?

I wait and pray some more.

I do some self examination to see if there is something *I* could be doing to help myself, or something I am doing that is unhealthy and damaging to myself. If I am doing something that hurts myself or my situation, God can pull me out of the pit a dozen times, but if I keep doing that unhealthy thing, I will keep throwing myself right back into the pit. Obviously this is not always the case, but every once in a while I realize "Whoa! Duh! *That's* why my eye is killing me! It's not that God doesn't care...it's because I've been poking my eyeball with a pencil for three months straight, even though he's told me in his Word not to do that!".

I trust him. Because...I understand I do not have the whole picture--he does. I do not know what this present difficulty is going to give me in the way of blessing and experience that I may not see until waaaay down the road. Perhaps in 30 years I will run across someone who is struggling the very same way and will have insight and empathy for them that I otherwise wouldn't have. The way I deal with my struggle may impact others and I will never know it until I see them in heaven. This problem I'm having may have a lesson in it that I could learn an easier way, but wouldn't have the depth of understanding unless I learned it the hard way.

I change my perspective. When I think I am having a rough time, I pick up a copy of Voice of the Martyrs and read how my brothers and sisters in Christ are suffering and dying and remaining faithful in the middle of that. I think about my husband. It is interesting that he still trusts God fully and believes God is good. My husband was born in Ethiopia to very, very poor parents. Remember those pictures of starving Ethiopian children with swollen bellies a couple of decades ago? My dh was one of them. He was starving. he remembers eating bark off trees. He walked the length of Ethiopia with his father and brothers because that was the only way they could get to a church-run school that would take them without tuition. He was forcibly conscripted to the government army at 18, and was persecuted because he remained a Christian, when the government was shutting down churches in the name of secularism and Communism. He was falsly accused of some misdeed and jailed once by the MP. He saw the front lines of that civil war, and saw his best friend torn to shreds by shrapnel in front of his eyes. He survived cerebral malaria which is just about as nasty and illness you can live through. He has scars he hasn't told me the stories behind. He's dealt with bad people, nasty missionaries , poverty and starvation, and seeing his immediate family suffer, and he still loves and trusts God. And he's only 36. I should get him to write a book on how he reached that place.

I remember that we are *promised* hardship in this life. In one way or another, I think we will all hit a point where we think we just can't go one step farther, and wonder where God is. In Christianity, that started with Jesus. Continued with the apostles. And continued in pretty much every generation of Christians afterward, with the geography of suffering and persecution changing, but not the nature.

Yes, prayer is for our "benefit", but not always in terms of material or social benefit. Sometimes it's the soul that benefits, while the body still hurts.

[cappuccinosmom]

btw....

[InchByInch]

Originally Posted by HennyPenny

I'm not sure I understand your last premise... why would our happiness be promised to us? We are created to glorify Him, not the other way around. Our happiness comes from glorifying Him, not the other way around. but... again... this is a personal thing.

OP - My heart goes out to you! why would anyone flame such a sincere question? I have asked that question so many many times. esp during a time when my marriage was terrible, my daughter was born very sick and we were poor as dirt with no way to pay our bills. but.. there have been many other things too. (like why was I abused physically, emotionally and sexually as a child/teen? etc...)

I have many times said to God "where are you!?!? don't you care!?"

but through time I believe God has shown me a simply, and hard to swallow thing. We are not here for our own happiness. We can hate god over that one. we can bang out fists to the ground. we can refuse to except it... but it doesn't change it.

It is a very popular pop-christian culture ideal to promise that if we follow God we will be happy. we will have all our needs met etc etc etc... but this is ridiculous and a false promise to hand people. take for instance SO many people in the Bible... the jews is Egypt all the way through Stephen and Paul who were martyred for their beliefs. don't you think they prayed and cried out to God and were sincere? Where was God for them? well I think they found the true answer that many of us find very very hard to except - they knew true happiness comes from our hearts seeking God in every way. True contentment will never be found in this world. the world is a sinful place and it's diseased with greed and lust and malice... look how jesus himself suffered! if anyone deserves contentment and security in this world it would be the son of the creator!

I will not pretend I don't question God. I wont pretend I don't get angry and frustrated and feel so lost sometimes. I do. I really do. But it is through these weaknesses we are made strong.

I completely understand your need to question God about all of this. even question His existence. But take it to Him. Do not fall for that easy believism of pop-christainity that God will bless us all here on earth in any particular way. Each person needs to reckon this with God. seeking out truth and answers from him... not from modern (ridiculous) philosophies.
and please don't get the idea I don't believe in a loving and caring God, b/c I do! but how he cares for us is often in a way we a human's have a hard time comprehending. sometimes it is hard to have prospective to see the many blessings he does allow to flow your way. esp when it's blocked by the pain the world has issues out to you.

I really enjoyed reading this, HennyPenny.

[TzippityDoulah]

Originally Posted by cappuccinosmom

I wait and pray some more.

I do some self examination to see if there is something *I* could be doing to help myself, or something I am doing that is unhealthy and damaging to myself. If I am doing something that hurts myself or my situation, God can pull me out of the pit a dozen times, but if I keep doing that unhealthy thing, I will keep throwing myself right back into the pit. Obviously this is not always the case, but every once in a while I realize "Whoa! Duh! *That's* why my eye is killing me! It's not that God doesn't care...it's because I've been poking my eyeball with a pencil for three months straight, even though he's told me in his Word not to do that!".

I trust him. Because...I understand I do not have the whole picture--he does. I do not know what this present difficulty is going to give me in the way of blessing and experience that I may not see until waaaay down the road. Perhaps in 30 years I will run across someone who is struggling the very same way and will have insight and empathy for them that I otherwise wouldn't have. The way I deal with my struggle may impact others and I will never know it until I see them in heaven. This problem I'm having may have a lesson in it that I could learn an easier way, but wouldn't have the depth of understanding unless I learned it the hard way.

I change my perspective. When I think I am having a rough time, I pick up a copy of Voice of the Martyrs and read how my brothers and sisters in Christ are suffering and dying and remaining faithful in the middle of that. I think about my husband. It is interesting that he still trusts God fully and believes God is good. My husband was born in Ethiopia to very, very poor parents. Remember those pictures of starving Ethiopian children with swollen bellies a couple of decades ago? My dh was one of them. He was starving. he remembers eating bark off trees. He walked the length of Ethiopia with his father and brothers because that was the only way they could get to a church-run school that would take them without tuition. He was forcibly conscripted to the government army at 18, and was persecuted because he remained a Christian, when the government was shutting down churches in the name of secularism and Communism. He was falsly accused of some misdeed and jailed once by the MP. He saw the front lines of that civil war, and saw his best friend torn to shreds by shrapnel in front of his eyes. He survived cerebral malaria which is just about as nasty and illness you can live through. He has scars he hasn't told me the stories behind. He's dealt with bad people, nasty missionaries , poverty and starvation, and seeing his immediate family suffer, and he still loves and trusts God. And he's only 36. I should get him to write a book on how he reached that place.

I remember that we are *promised* hardship in this life. In one way or another, I think we will all hit a point where we think we just can't go one step farther, and wonder where God is. In Christianity, that started with Jesus. Continued with the apostles. And continued in pretty much every generation of Christians afterward, with the geography of suffering and persecution changing, but not the nature.

Yes, prayer is for our "benefit", but not always in terms of material or social benefit. Sometimes it's the soul that benefits, while the body still hurts.

very good insights! so true!

[TzippityDoulah]

Originally Posted by InchByInch

I really enjoyed reading this, HennyPenny.

aww that was kind of you to say

[LionTigerBear]

God didn't promise that nothing bad would happen to us-- even if we do everything "right" (which we can't) -- but He did promise that we would never be alone-- and that He would never give us more than we can handle.

[cappuccinosmom]

OP--I have been thinking of your post all day.

One thing I neglected to mention--When I am suffering or lacking and just can't go on by myself, I seek help. Christians are also called the Body of Christ. We are called and obligated to be the hands and feet of Jesus, ministering to others.

I don't know where you are geographically, but I know that somewhere in your area there are people who believe this, if you can find them. And I do understand that Christians have done this imperfectly or not at all at times. I have myself met a few people who really tarnished the name of Jesus by the way they treated the people they were supposedly ministering to, and I'm ashamed of them. But I pray that you will find someone who can help you in the ways you need help, because that is what the Church is supposed to be there for.

[cappuccinosmom]

Henny Penny, just had the chance to read your post--good stuff. All the stuff I should have thought of but didn't.

[tjlsmom]

Don't respond much around here, but I do lurk alot. There are some really, really good replies here. I don't have much more that I can offer but lots of thoughts and prayers!

[Amanda589]

pardon the catch phrases each work for me as I deserve them:

1. recently Charles stanley said: get on your knees... lying in bed (so me) saying pleease help wasn't going to get it. So, I roll out of bed at night now and with force drop to my knees.

2. pray out loud so you hear what your asking.

3. consider that you have God all wrong. As you know he doesn't desire us to a life of suffering.

*This is my favorite: Footprints the poem (pointing out that when it's hard your being carried not struggling alone)
* When it's super hard I bring in humor. Simply FORCING myself to go ha and laughing. Usually I cry however crying keeps you from going insane .

4. I believe that all we go through (the loss through adoption at 15, discord with family: including the emotional abuse year after year, the feeling of 2nd class) is what it takes to make us humble and useable by God. Sometime the stubborn (directed toward self) require more humbling task.

5. When I was younger this was told to me: first he throws a grain of sand, then a pebble, small rock, rock, boulder, until he tosses a mountain, demanding we seek the relationship he desires to have with us.

6. Last, when I'm exhausted praying for drastic measures I remember simply: Thank you for this opportunity.

Thank you for reading.

[Ruthla]

Here's my views on this:

G-d is infinite and perfect, but He gave away some of His power by giving us Free Will. You were abused because the individuals who were supposed to care for you screwed up- not because G-d wanted you to be abused.

G-d gives us what we need, not always what we want, and not always in the form that's easiest for us, but always what we need. Some people don't take advantages of the opportunity G-d sends their way. Others, who DO have the strength to cope, choose not to, or decide to cope in unhealthy ways (drug abuse, suicide, etc.)

You DO have the strength to handle what life has thrown you, and you do have the resources available to help you through. You may not have found all those resources yet or figured out how best to use them, but they're there. I have faith in you.

Already you're reaching out via MDC (one of the resources presented to you) and getting support.

[xekomaya]

I'm Catholic and we have a slightly different take on suffering that perhaps is not what you're familiar with. Unfortunately, I'm not particularly eloquent but I'll try to explain.

We are in exile in this world. It isn't supposed to be pleasant. It isn't our home. Ideally, we can find joy here, but our joy comes from knowing that this isn't our home, but our time here is what God Wills for us. Since He is our One love, know that all that happens to us is His Will can bring us great happiness.

Sometimes, we are fortunate enough to receive consolations through prayer, but even when we don't, we know we know that our heavenly home awaits. And we keep trying, and we keep waiting.

Now, those who can find pure joy through great suffering are the Saints of our faith. I have far too many imperfections to try and pretend that I'm joyful through everything thrown my way, but I still try every day.

If you're looking for more on how suffering makes sense in God's plan for us individually, and how/why it should still be joyful for a Christian, perhaps look at some Carmelite writings. St. Therese of Lisieux's Story of a Soul is easy to read and comprehend, but also St. John of the Cross and St. Theresa of Avila.

[lilyka]

Originally Posted by bmcneal

What do you do when things are going rough? Like, when everything is going wrong, and you've prayed about it, and done all the stuff you are "supposed" to do, like tithe, pray, attend church, treat other people well, etc?.

First of all we do not do those things to receive any sort of blessings in return. we give those things to God because they are His. When we stop expecting to receive back we will cease to be disappointed by God and the expectations we have put on him.

Why and or how do you continue to believe that God is/will take care of you, when he hasn't/isn't?

I struggled with this for a long time but then i realized, Gods definition of taking care of me and my definition are different. also i can see where I have squandered a lot of his provision.

What do you do when God *does* give you more than you can handle?

Honestly I have never seen anything in the Bible or church doctrine that says he won't. I also believe that not everything we get is from God. I think Satan dishes up more than we can handle a lot.



I have had a really hard year. Lost everything. the only person who is not really suffering is the one with the most sin. Its enough to make a girl think that God is evil. and for a while, looking through the lens of my up bringing (evangelical prosperity gospel blah blah blah ) that seemed to be the case and I did walk away. but could not walk away all together. I started digging and reaching because I knew that there had to be something more to God if he exisisted but this whole do this and you will be blessed this way crap wasn't working out for me. I had always done the right things, made the good choices, followed all the rules, black and white and i was getting screwed every which way imaginable and those very godly choices were the ones most like to be biting me in the butt. Slowly I have come to see worship and sacrifice and working out my salvation in a different light. i have had to let go of everything i thought I knew. Now anything I do for God I do for God alone, not for blessings or because it is going to pay off in any way. I know that everything time I withstand the slings and arrows my soul has been refined and the refining of my soul is what I am hear for. not for a comfortable life, a sweet husband or the love of my children. The hard work that provides the comfortable, the sacrifices and self realization our families cause us, those are all for our salvation, for the refining of our souls and not a reward for it. i don't know if that makes any sense or not. I guess what I am saying is that I expect to suffer in this life. sounds harsh but I have stopped expecting blessings, specific ones and just watch for what blessings I can praise God for.