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Irritated about office pumping discussion  

post #1 of 36
Thread Starter 
Sorry, this is long, but I need advice.

I had a discussion yesterday with my supervisor about bfing and pumping in the office that I did when DS was born (he is 2 yrs now and I'm pregnant with my second at 44 yrs). I am perhaps being too sensitive, and I was upset by the end of the conversation, so I want to tell my story. This discussion came up again because I will probably be bringing the second into my office again, for a shorter period of time.

First, a little history: I work in a fairly liberal gov't office environment that was totally supportive of bringing my baby into the office for the first six months (at least until he was crawling). And it was winter and a more relaxed, less busy period of time in the office. About half of my co-workers have children, but mostly grown. The other half don't seem to have a clue about children or parenting, but seem to be fairly accomodating. I was quite lucky, and my supervisor even allowed me to work at home for two days a week for three months. I also took two months of paid leave. I brought DS into the office when he was about 3 months old until he was about 6 months. It was usually only one or two days a week, depending on the schedule I had arranged with DH.

I have an office that is in a back corner with a sliding glass door, not an actual door, but better privacy that most others have in the office. The rest of the office is very open, particularly the second floor, which is open to the first floor without much of a sound barrier. Everyone else has partians and cookie cutter walls creating their office. So, to say the least, even breast pumping was easy and private in this back office. Except if someone came and knocked when my glass door was open. I'll admit, I wasn't the best at closing it all the time (its heavy and it blocks off the other employees that I supervise and also blocks access to a storage room that they sometimes need to get to through my office) while I was feeding my son or pumping. But my supervisor (no children), was supportive but I could tell she was very uncomfortable with the whole BFing in the office. She was the first to make me a sign that she put on my glass door, that basically said, "entering the baby zone, knock first."

I really hadn't thought of it, since I began to enjoy Bfing so much and saw it as natural. And I could begin to tell who was comfortable with it--such as the head boss (who had children) was the nicest of all, and never seemed uncomfortable if she interrupted me in my office by accident while BFing or pumping. Most people would walk away and say, "sorry, I'll come back," while she would still stand there and talk to me. I felt comfortable with the co-workers who seemed to accept it, but I realize not everyone is that way.

However, after the sign was put up, I really didn't have any accidents of people walking into my office much, except some would knock and instead of waiting for my answer, would walk right in. And I didn't always have the sliding door completely closed, because I guess deep down, I felt there was a sign and I didn't feel like I should have to completely seal myself off from the rest of the office, since they knew I had a baby there and I could be possibly feeding him.

Okay, I'll get to the end of this, I promise. So I brought up the new baby schedule to my supervisor yesterday on what I planned to do. She mentioned for the fourth time, this time with more insistance, that I needed to basically be more discrete in the office. Several co-workers had come to her and complained about walking in on me or seeing my breast pump apparatus (bottles with suction cups attached) at the kitchen lounge sink (everyone eats lunch here because we are too far from town or home). I used to pump 2 or 3 times a day in my office (I did this for almost a year! My DS was BF'd until was 2 and I ran out of milk because of my pregancy. It was not easy, and I never heard one compliment from any parent in the office on how difficult this was--cause most of them only nursed for 3-6 months). I would pump, put the milk in a bag right away, toss it in the freezer, and bring the pump bottles to the sink to rinse out. I was always aware that someone in the office would get grossed out by the bottles sitting by the sink (they never had milk in them, and were always rinsed) but sometimes I would try to make one trip since my office was far away from the lunch lounge and while no one was around, I'd dash to the bathroom--so perhaps for 1 or 2 minutes the bottles were left sitting by the kitchen sink and microwave. This bothered people apparently, because she said several people came to her about it. Towards the end of my pumping, I started to rinse the bottles in the bathroom sink, but there is a very small sink with nothing else--no place to even set a bottle down without it falling off the sink, so when I did that I would have to rinse them out and return to my office with them wet, they were never dry.

I guess it is unreasonable to expect co-workers to be okay with seeing these bottles sitting in the lounge area, and I should be more discrete, but the fact that some of these employees have gone to my supervisor before in an undermining fashion, it just kind of makes me angry. I suppose I should be greatful that they have been so supportive already. In fact, no one complained (that I know of) of my baby crying (which wasn't very often).
I don't want to get all bent out of shape, but I sort of am right now. I felt that I did my best, and its obvious to me that people still have a lot of aversions to bfing. I think its weird. One thing is for sure, that glass door is going to be closed off to everyone and I'm going to be able to throw my lunch in the microwave, go to the bathroom and clean out my pump at the same time, for fear that someone might encounter my pump sitting there for a few minutes while I'm in the bathroom. Thoughts?

Minaret
post #2 of 36
Thread Starter 
Oh, and I should mention that my supervisor suggested that with the second baby, we could set up a chair and a place in the "storage room" next to my office for me to nurse or pump, so that I could have privacy and for sure no one would bump into me. A dingy, storage room next to my nice, somewhat secluded office. I said I wasn't comfortable with that. She asked, "why, is it cold back there?"

Minaret
post #3 of 36
[


Oh ya, I have some thoughts...
Firstly, you're not doing anything shameful, private, or obscene. There is NO need to close yourself in your office with a 'WARNING' sign on the door! And, shame on your boss and coworkers for making you feel that way. Your boss crossed a line when she made a sign for your door. If your coworkers expressed discomfort to her about your nursing/pumping her response should have been to tell them to feel free NOT TO LOOK!
If your coworkers are grossed-out by the sight of a breastpump and a bottle of bm they need to get over it. A pump is a freaking inanimate object, for goodness sake - it's like getting ooked out over a stapler! And a bottle of BM is no more yucky (and probably less so) than someone's half-eaten ham sandwich sitting on the lunch table.
There is NO WAY you should have to sneak your pump and bottles into the bathroom to clean them. If Fred from accounting (or whomever)can rinse his ravioli-stained tupperware in the kitchen sink, you should be able to rinse out a couple of bottles and pump parts.
post #4 of 36
I pumped when I was in the military, but it was for a brief period with a small underground office.

I think that respect has to go both ways since this is a workplace. Perhaps present a plan:

You will:
  • Post your sign
  • Close your door when pumping

Your co-workers will:
  • Respect your sign
  • Knock and wait for an answer before entering
  • Understand that you are not performing a sexual act, so the mere sight of your pumping apparatus on the counter while you use the toilet should be equated with leaving a dildo on the counter, nor is it a bio-hazard.
post #5 of 36
I'm sorry- but I think you're being a bit too sensitive. Your office *isn't* private- especially since people need to walk through to get things and there isn't a proper door. Your supervisor is being very supportive from what it sounds like- baby at work with you, work at home part time, etc. I think that the request for more discretion from you while pumping is totally reasonable. Providing you with more privacy to pump is really nice and it sounds like your supervisor is trying to ensure that everyone's needs are met- both yours and your co-workers.

Good luck- I hope you find a solution that works for everyone!
post #6 of 36
Your boss has to provide a comfortable situation for everyone involved, but honestly I don't see what is so gross about having clean bottles by the sink. In my office we have all kinds of dishes piled up by the sink all the time. If people were bothered by this, your boss should have worked with you while it was happening to come up with a solution.

I would get an opaque caddy thing that has draining holes at the bottom to be designated as the "boob milk bottle dryer" so that people don't get grossed out by the possibility of your BM comingling with their food. (Which is probably what the issue is).
post #7 of 36
I used to pump 1-2X a day at work (I only worked part time) and NEVER rinsed out my pump parts at work- I never even brought the pumping stuff to the kitchen area (which was nowhere near the private space I had to pump in.) I just put my pump (avent manual) into the cooler with the ebm. If I was using an electric pump, I would have put the flanges and tubing in with the ebm and left the motor separate.

I think you can avoid the whole "wash in sink and offend co-workers or wash in bathroom where it's a bathroom and gross?" issue entirely. I'm not sure what to tell you about closing the door while pumping. I never had the option of a private-ish office, or even the opportunity to work while pumping, I always had to clock out when I pumped and clock back in when I was done.
post #8 of 36
My first thought is how lucky you are to be able to bring your baby into work, and have the space to pump and breastfeed! Lots and lots of mamas don't have that.

I think that closing your door completely shouldn't be too difficult. Some people are bothered by breastfeeding, and it seems like a small thing to do, especially when they're allowing you to bring in your infant.

As far as the bottles and pump - I think they're being way too sensitive. But then again, you're in an unusual situation. Could you bring a bag, and use it to transport your pump and bottles so that others don't have to see it?

I guess I think of it this way - they're willing to put up with the inconvience of a baby crying, of having an infant around (although that would be a joy to me!), and having a boss who might be unavailable because she's nursing or pumping. Find out what you can do to make it easier on them, whether it be always closing your door or finding a way to be more discreet with your breast pump. I would hate for this to backfire on you, and have them decide no more infants in the office
post #9 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by jjawm View Post
Could you bring a bag, and use it to transport your pump and bottles so that others don't have to see it?
Yes, sometimes I just shoved it all in a cooler and washed at home. I like the caddy idea as well.
post #10 of 36
Or maybe a small picnic basket with a lid/flaps so it's not "obvious."
post #11 of 36
Thread Starter 
Wow! Thank you for all the great advice, and much varied opinions about this issue. And I agree with all of them.

I know that I am lucky to have an office environment like this. I guess I'm just a little sensitive because I've only been here 3 yrs and I was pregnant after the first three months here, and have been pretty much bfing and pumping ever since and now I'm having another (it was unexpected). I'm worried about my image at the office and my supervisors opinion. I didn't tell her about the second pregnancy for the longest time, but I did tell 2 people in the office (told them to keep it quiet) but they didn't and told her and she knew all along. If she had kids and wasn't a workaholic, I would feel more comfortable. But there is definitely some pressure, even advice given from non-parents such as my supervisor about my parenting style.

Because of this, I have never been part of the office clique. Everyone eats lunch in the lounge at noon and I eat at my desk and pump during that time. It would be awful to have to "punch out" each time I pumped, but I mostly did it on my lunch hour and then for ten minutes in the afternoon. I feel uncomfortable being this Mom with a baby and pumping bottles, only because I can sense it from some members of the staff and I don't want to bring them anywhere near the lunchroom. But sometimes it can't be helped.

I do agree I could bring a bag, but I don't think its feasible to not wash my pumping bottles out while I'm here. I would have to lug this heavy backpacking pump home every day, and I commute from far and my day is already long as it is, I don't really have the time to wash out everything at home and freeze the blue pack to keep milk cold, besides, my day is so long it would melt before I got home. So I will cover them up. But sometimes I feel like Johnsmom, like they should get over it, and then on the other hand, I agree with Emmeline II, there needs to be a balance.

I also travel to another work location in the summer--an hour away from my office and it was very difficult the last two summers keeping up with the pumping. I bought a car charger so I could pump in the car before I entered the other office, since there was not a private place for me to pump comfortably. I remember there was a woman who worked there with five kids and she was the only person to praise my bfing efforts and how much effort I made to pump and dedicate to my child. But then, she was an amazing person. Of course, she moved away, and some other office will be lucky to have her.

I guess there is more to this than I'm willing to admit. There are some office dynamics. My supervisor is supportive, but always finds a way to be negative about something I've done and rarely praises me for the things I have accomplished. I think she somehow feels that because of my pregnancy and the birth of my DS, I'm not as productive as I could be, and perhaps she was expecting more from a new employee. But I feel I have given 100%. I have even worked overtime and not been paid for it (just credit hours) In fact right now, at 25 weeks pregnant, I've worked 12 days in a row to cover for someone else and I have had the worst flu/cold that lasted for 10 days and not one person said to go home and they would cover for me. I didn't want my supervisor to cover because she has already made it clear how much she has "helped me" in my job and worked late because she didn't have time to get her work done---which is actually a bunch of BS. She LIKES to work late, for work projects to me that are not important at all. She has been here for many yrs and when I first started, employees that were now supposed to come to me were still coming to her and she wasn't redirecting them to me. After three years, it still kind of undermines my position. And she is a workaholic, who stays in the office until 8 or 9 pm at night and I think expects me to do the same.

I know she realizes that I can only work 40-45 hrs a week because of my family, but there is almost a guilt trip I feel coming from her constantly. This summer I made a special effort to be the oversight of some programs in a town an hour at way that didn't start until 8 pm and as a result I did not get home until 12:30 at night!(I did this five times). It wasn't necessarily required that I do this, but I have always felt pressure to do more from her since I had this baby. And she is strange about my office. Once she even came into my office when I wasn't here and cleaned it! (I had some baby stuff because my DS was still coming to work with me once a week) and the big supervisor from another region was coming to visit and she thought she might see my office (why would this person be in my office?) so she put all my baby stuff away somewhere! Her own office is very cluttered and more open and visable to people than mine, but I would never think to touch a thing in it!

Anyway, I really don't have a right to complain, I am luckier than most other Mom's, but there has been a huge guilt trip because of it. I'm sure other Mom's experience this when they have babies and still the same demands placed on them at work. I have learned to shut up about my parenting methods to co-workers and my supervisor, too, because I would reveal too much about AP parenting and then my sup would question the dedication and time I was spending with my child, like I should be more dedicated to working 60 hours a week like she does. I guess that is more of my irritation than the bfing and pumping, that just tops the cake. It's like--okay, go ahead and bring your child in and do your pumping, but there will be a huge guilt trip associate with it. I know, I know. I need to get over it and I need this job.
Without it, we would be doomed, since I am the breadwinner in the family. There are so many times that I wish DH could get it together and I could take a break for two years. It's going to be tough with a second child at 44 yrs old and working, but I'm going to tackle it. No other option.

It's great to have the support of MDC Mothers, that's what keeps me going.

Minaret
post #12 of 36
Am I missing something here? Really, either the office is 'baby friendly' or it's not.
If a baby is going to be allowed in the office, it's going to need to be fed in the office. When did we start advising women to be 'discreet' or 'modest' when nursing or pumping? Why is an office any different than a park or restaurant? If a store employee asked a mom to nurse behind closed doors for fear of making others uncomfortable we'd be outraged. Why is it OK then to require it in an office? There's nothing unprofessional about feeding a baby, especially if that baby has been 'welcomed' in the office.
I wonder if the coworkers would be grossed out by a bottle of formula on the kitchen counter? Or, if they'd insist the OP bottle feed her baby in the supply room?
post #13 of 36
:

What is so gross about a few washed bottles? What exactly would be gross about UNwashed bottles?
If the office accepts the baby they should accept pumping/feeding. if a certain employee is offended by it, they really don't need to look!
post #14 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by Emmeline II View Post
I pumped when I was in the military, but it was for a brief period with a small underground office.

I think that respect has to go both ways since this is a workplace. Perhaps present a plan:

You will:
  • Post your sign
  • Close your door when pumping

Your co-workers will:
  • Respect your sign
  • Knock and wait for an answer before entering
  • Understand that you are not performing a sexual act, so the mere sight of your pumping apparatus on the counter while you use the toilet should be equated with leaving a dildo on the counter, nor is it a bio-hazard.
I like this idea. You should try to maintain the highest level of professionalism as possible. I'd say you need to be willing to compromise (close the door, dry the bottles somewhere else, or towel dry them). I don't think you should have to nurse in the storage closet though. Don't fight battles you can't win--like trying to get your supervisor to be a nicer person, or trying to get other people to not have distorted notions of breasts and breast milk. I admit that people being disturbed about milk bottles is, well, dumb. But office politics are what they are. Many times, people are unhappy in their jobs so they find silly things to complain about. It gives them some sense of power.

I don't want to be dismissive of your feelings, but as a pregnant person myself, I think part of your emotional reaction is due, not only to workplace history, but to pregnancy sensitivity. Sounds like overall, you've got a pretty good set-up for working and caring for your LO. There is always one grumpy boss that everyone has to deal with....
post #15 of 36
As a former EPing mom, I think it sounds like you have an overall GREAT setup.

Would it be fabulous for your coworkers not to be weirded out by seeing you nurse your baby, or by seeing your pumping stuff? Yeah, definitely. It sounds like they're being pretty oversensitive about the latter in particular.

But -- and I hope I don't get flayed alive for saying this -- there's a time and a place to make waves, and I don't think this is it. Jobs are too important, and too tough to come by right now. I would definitely NOT die on this hill, as it sounds like your job is very important to your family and they're definitely being accommodating already.
post #16 of 36
Part of this reaction on supervisor and some coworkers' parts may be less about breastfeeding itself, and more about what they themselves are comfortable with. As in, they personally would want to hide to pump and it makes them uncomfortable that you don't want to hide to pump (in a locked bathroom stall or whatever).

I pumped in a storeroom with no lock on it, with a sign up so no one walked in. It was used by most of the building (housed the electrical system, the computer network stuff, etc.). People knew when I'd be pumping, and planned accordingly. I think my supervisor would have died if he'd actually seen me! Not that he was unsupportive, he was - but he was also very uncomfortable about it.

I do think that if you go ahead and do exactly as your boss asks (shut the door, etc. etc.) that you may want to clarify to those who you knew/sensed were comfortable about it, that it's not that your feelings have changed, it's just that you have become aware that some coworkers were uncomfortable. Not in a way that an office war gets started, but in a way that allows them to do a "party knock" or whatever and still come in and interact with you so that you can get your work done effectively.

I'm sorry things are uncomfortable with you right now. You are setting an example, possibly even for some of the coworkers who have complained or are uncomfortable. It's hard for them to know what it's like, if they haven't done it, and it's entirely possible that later in their lives, they will regret their reactions/feelings about your pumping.
post #17 of 36
Honestly, it sounds to me like it's your boss that has the problem. The fact that she cleaned your office because you had baby stuff around really shows that she has issues with parenthood. She sounds extremely passive agressive. I'd be surprised if other people were actually complained about things. They may have mentioned it and that was too much for her.

I've gotten similar vibes from child-less women who are over dedicated to their work, more so than with men. It is not healthy for anyone to work 60+ hours per week consistently. It is also not fair for your employer to expect you to limit your family so you can work more. As a full time working and pumping mom, I do understand that you feel you need to go that extra mile. I rarely leave on time either.

I was able to bring dd to work with me too and I never closed my door when bfing. I do close it while pumping. I think that's probably a reasonable request. I don't think the storage closet is. If your bottles were only around for a few minutes, I don't think that's a valid complaint either.
post #18 of 36
I think you've gotten some great advice here, I'll throw my two cents in, though.

I'm a bit biased, because where I live, behaviour like your boss's could get her hauled in front of the Human Rights Tribunal. I firmly believe that breastfeeding is a human right and it's gender discrimination to hinder you in any way. That being said, I know the reality of the situation in the US is far from ideal. I have so much respect for you mamas who do the pumping/working thing. It's so hard. I hope you find a solution that you can live with.
post #19 of 36
just an interesting thread I can see both positions, it will be interesting to find out what you do!
post #20 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by Emmeline II View Post
I pumped when I was in the military, but it was for a brief period with a small underground office.

I think that respect has to go both ways since this is a workplace. Perhaps present a plan:

You will:
  • Post your sign
  • Close your door when pumping

Your co-workers will:
  • Respect your sign
  • Knock and wait for an answer before entering
  • Understand that you are not performing a sexual act, so the mere sight of your pumping apparatus on the counter while you use the toilet should be equated with leaving a dildo on the counter, nor is it a bio-hazard.
I agree with this. It is a place of business and while I think they definitely should accomodate you, I think you should respond in kind. For example, I'm not sure how you would forget to close your door?

As for your pump parts...just wash them and immediately put them back in the bag. That way they're clean but aren't laying out.
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