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Irritated about office pumping discussion - Page 2  

post #21 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnsmom View Post
Am I missing something here? Really, either the office is 'baby friendly' or it's not.
If a baby is going to be allowed in the office, it's going to need to be fed in the office. When did we start advising women to be 'discreet' or 'modest' when nursing or pumping? Why is an office any different than a park or restaurant? If a store employee asked a mom to nurse behind closed doors for fear of making others uncomfortable we'd be outraged. Why is it OK then to require it in an office? There's nothing unprofessional about feeding a baby, especially if that baby has been 'welcomed' in the office.
Really? You don't understand the difference between a park, a restaurant, and the workplace?

The baby doesn't have a right to be in the work place; it's a perk that can be revoked at anytime and not protected by law. Even the most protective bf laws usually have "where otherwise authorized to be" in the text. Pumping should be protected by law and accommodations made, but that is rare in the US.

So the cautions suggested are due to the fact that neither having the baby present or the pumping is protected and we don't want the OP to lose her job.
post #22 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by rhiandmoi View Post
that people don't get grossed out by the possibility of your BM comingling with their food. (Which is probably what the issue is).
I think that this part of the problem, people are scared about breast milk mixing in with their food. Is it possible to get some extra bottles so that you don't have to rinse them out in the sink?
post #23 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by Emmeline II View Post
Really? You don't understand the difference between a park, a restaurant, and the workplace?

The baby doesn't have a right to be in the work place; it's a perk that can be revoked at anytime and not protected by law. Even the most protective bf laws usually have "where otherwise authorized to be" in the text. Pumping should be protected by law and accommodations made, but that is rare in the US.

So the cautions suggested are due to the fact that neither having the baby present or the pumping is protected and we don't want the OP to lose her job.
Obviously I understand the difference between a park and the workplace. But, I figured that if the baby is welcomed in the workplace (which she obvioulsy was) then the boss and coworkers would assume that the baby would be fed. And, since everyone in the office knows that the OP is nursing, it would be no great shock to see her rinsing out a few bottles in the kitchen sink.
The op asked for thoughts - and I gave mine. I put myself in her shoes and if my boss made a 'warning' sign for my door, suggested I pump in a supply closet or behaved like a bottle of bm was a urine sample - I would be offended.
I do agree that being able to bring your baby to work is a pretty sweet deal and I might jump through a few hoops myself to avoid having that privelege revoked, but the behavior of her boss and coworkers is really childish.
post #24 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by MamaKickyPants View Post
I think you've gotten some great advice here, I'll throw my two cents in, though.

I'm a bit biased, because where I live, behaviour like your boss's could get her hauled in front of the Human Rights Tribunal. I firmly believe that breastfeeding is a human right and it's gender discrimination to hinder you in any way. That being said, I know the reality of the situation in the US is far from ideal. I have so much respect for you mamas who do the pumping/working thing. It's so hard. I hope you find a solution that you can live with.
Ah - another Canadian here.
Maybe this is why I'm so outraged and everyone else seems to be offering advice about being more discreet and respectful of the coworkers.
I would never be allowed to bring my kids to work, so the issue of nursing or not would never arise. Anyplace I know of that allows parents to bring kids to work is the kind of environment where breastfeeding, pumping and all matters relating to lactation would be welcomed. It just seems so strange that the op is allowed to bring her baby to work (which is awesome) but discouraged from nursing/pumping where anyone might catch a glimpse.
post #25 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by MamaKickyPants View Post
I'm a bit biased, because where I live, behaviour like your boss's could get her hauled in front of the Human Rights Tribunal. I firmly believe that breastfeeding is a human right and it's gender discrimination to hinder you in any way. That being said, I know the reality of the situation in the US is far from ideal. I have so much respect for you mamas who do the pumping/working thing. It's so hard. I hope you find a solution that you can live with.
Canada sounds like a truly wonderful place for breastfeeding!

Best wishes to you, OP! Please keep us updated!

On the one hand, I feel like you're not doing anything wrong or unprofessional, they're being unreasonable, so therefore you shouldn't have to change a thing.

At the same time, I realize we live in a country that's really weird about breastfeeding -- a country where it's (as others have said) a "sweet deal" to have a workplace that's been as accommodating as this one has.

So while our country obviously falls short, I wouldn't recommend jeapardizing your situation there.
post #26 of 36
i pumped at work in a toilet stall and never washed my pump parts and my baby was just fine. you don't have to wash them out every time, honestly. I'm sorry to sound blunt but your situation sounds great and i would not complain about it if I were you. You need your job more than you need to be perfectly content and comfortable. Just continues storing the milk in the fridge/freezer, but don't worry about washing anything out. just stuff it back into the bag until next time, then maybe a quick rinse under the faucet. what's wrong with carrying the bottles back wet, anyway?

ETA: i never washed them during the work day, lol not never at all in a whole year....ew, lol.
post #27 of 36
Quote:
It just seems so strange that the op is allowed to bring her baby to work (which is awesome) but discouraged from nursing/pumping where anyone might catch a glimpse.
If I had to guess, perhaps permission to "bring the baby to work" was given by the childless supervisor who had no idea what went along with that... bottle-feeding and formula-feeding is so prevalent in our society that she may not have ever thought about nursing or pumping happening in the office.
post #28 of 36
I wouldn't skip washing the parts. I did that and I got thrush. (I know it was my pump because my babe didn't get it at all and I was all broken out).

I started rinsing after each session and I haven't gotten thrush again yet (knock on wood).

I agree that jobs are too hard to come by right now for you to make waves. You've got a great setup (I'd kill to be able to bring my baby to work! That is so awesome!) and you'll want to protect that.

I would (and I do) wash my attachments and bottles in the break room sink and then put them back in my pump bag immediately. They are clean and no one has to be "grossed out" by the "hideous" clean dishes.

Keep with the sign, forget the closet.
post #29 of 36
I couldn't pass by without commenting here, because this situation brings up lots of old memories!

In my previous life (aka before kids), I worked in a small office with a coworker and close friend who was pregnant and pumped for about a year. I am 100% supportive of pregnancy/breastfeeding/pumping, and was even before I had kids, but I have to admit that sometimes the arrangement in the workplace was inconvenient for me, and I would sometimes get a little annoyed with the whole thing. Examples:

-coworker had Hyperemesis Gravidarum (lots of throwing up) while pregnant, so I had to take my lunch to another kitchen on a different floor of the building to heat and eat without making coworker sick. Did I resent this? Not at all, but it was inconvenient for me, and no one could eat hot or smelly food at their desk and work thru lunch.
-I gave up my window office b/c it was the only one with a door so that coworker could pump. (I actually liked this because I had to take office space Far Away from my coworkers and got more work done because they bothered me less!)
-I remember in particular I could never predict when my coworker would do her afternoon pump. She would pump for a solid 15 minutes, and often I would show up to talk to her or drop off files, or pull files from the cabinets in her office when she was pumping. This meant I had try and figure out how long until she was done and whether I should wait (losing productivity), or go back to my desk and come back later, and sometimes this was frustrating when I needed to talk to her before leaving for an appt, or when we were working on a deadline for our boss. She couldn't help it because she didn't know when she would be finishing a phone call, when our boss needed her, etc.

So yes, pumping is great and it's even more wonderful when your office allows you to bring your baby to the office, but the fact is, it can be inconvenient for you coworkers at times, and even if they completely approve of what you are doing, it can cause some frustration.

The best advice I've rec'd about getting along in the workplace is to keep your head down and downplay any perks you are receiving. I worked in a corporate office where I ended up having more responsibility and seniority that the other people in my dept despite being one of the youngest, and I was the only non-sales person in the office given a cubicle with a window. I was also allowed to set my own schedule rather than having to report/depart at the same time each day. I tried not to bring attention to these situations because I didn't want to flaunt my success/priveledge in front of my coworkers. They obviously knew something was up, but I tried not to bring attention to is. This would be my reason for not leaving bottles around the office kitchen.

Another thing to keep in mind is that most things to do with babies/nursing/parenting can be emotional hot buttons for people. People may not be having a 'yuck' reaction to the bottle on the counter, but an emotional stab of pain/guilt that they themselves weren't able to nurse, or have children at all, or some other such reaction. A small disruption to someone's day when they are trying to focus on getting their job done. I would think of the pump equipment less as your right to feed your baby in the ideal way, and more as your coworkers might see it: a special perk that reminds the person of their failures as a parent that causes them incovenience when they come to your office to get something out of the store room that they can't access for 10 more minutes and they need to leave for a meeting.

Lastly, (sorry so long) I think some of the OP's concerns are completely unrelated to the baby/pumping arrangement, and the OP should try to keep these issues separate in her mind. If she needs more positive feedback from her supervisor regarding her performance on the job, she needs to request that in a professional way, perhaps at her review.

In addition, if she is working late hours on purpose to make sure she is contributing enough, she needs to make sure her supervisor knows about this in the context of the OP's effort to make a fair contribution. I would document the hours spent at the evening functions (including additional commute time) and bring it up at the annual review somehow: "I know that employees are expected to put in some extra time after hours, and I wanted to remind you that I made an extra effort to cover the 5 evening meetings back in September for a total of x hours plus y commute time. I want you to know that I am doing my best to contribute in the evenings despite my family obligations. How do you think that worked out?" And if the feedback was negative, I would ask what other ways could I contribute during the daytime work hours to help support the people who are more available in the evenings. Sell yourself!
post #30 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by Minaret View Post
Anyway, I really don't have a right to complain, I am luckier than most other Mom's, but there has been a huge guilt trip because of it. I'm sure other Mom's experience this when they have babies and still the same demands placed on them at work.

Minaret
This jumped out at me. Of course the same demands are work will be there if you have a child! Am I interpreting incorrectly or do you mean that because you have a child that less productivity should be expected from you?
post #31 of 36
Minaret -- I'm thinking about what you said about not having a right to complain: You actually do have a right! You haven't been doing anything wrong and the problem is totally theirs.

There's something wrong with a society where breastfeeding has to be such a "hot-button" issue. I see a need for so much improvement in this area -- and saying that you don't have a right to complain (or express dissatisfaction with this situation), just because you have it better than many working moms, ignores the fact that things are still not where they need to be.

Don't get me wrong -- I'm not saying you should complain at work and jeopardize your situation in a job you really need right now. But I still think you're right that there are some really messed-up ideas circulating around. And I agree with those who say you shouldn't have to go to the supply closet!:
post #32 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnsmom View Post
the behavior of her boss and coworkers is really childish.
Well, yeah .

We need some more photos of hot celebs nursing their babies and toddlers :, and a few less tv shows showing people spitting out accidentally consumed bm (and this is not a completely random comment because tv normalizes things that people are not often exposed to ).
post #33 of 36
I think it's great that they let you bring the LO to work and that you can BF and pump, but I think it's irrelevant to the fact that you're getting flak for leaving your bottles out. That is a separate issue.

I would be offended too if someone complained about me rinsing out my pump parts and bottles at the sink. I work in an office full of men, and they are totally supportive of me pumping. I do go in an office and lock the door for my own comfort, but I always wash and rinse my pump parts and bottles in the regular sink in full view. A couple of them have looked at me funny when I've rinsed out my pump because they didn't know what it was, and I actually thought it was a great opportunity to explain what I was doing and to "normalize" pumping and BF.

I am VERY open about pumping and BF and talk about it like it's no big deal. I would be hurt and offended if I found out someone complained about it behind my back. Why do nursing moms always have to feel defensive about their decision to provide BM to their babies? I just don't get it.
post #34 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by hparsh View Post
I would be offended too if someone complained about me rinsing out my pump parts and bottles at the sink. I work in an office full of men, and they are totally supportive of me pumping.
You know, I wonder if most of the people complaining in the OP's office are women? I told my dh about this, and he said none of that would bother him if it happened at his job.

A pp mentioned that some of the offense may be related to other moms regretting not breastfeeding, or other women regretting not having kids.

I know that when I previously got flak at church for nursing my almost 3yo in the nursery, it all seemed to be coming from women. I've heard the same thing from other moms who've been "taken aside" about breastfeeding in church.

Of course, at first I assumed that it was women coming to us, because the men were too shy. But I'm increasingly convinced that it's usually women who feel upset over other women breastfeeding.
post #35 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by mammal_mama View Post
You know, I wonder if most of the people complaining in the OP's office are women? I told my dh about this, and he said none of that would bother him if it happened at his job.

A pp mentioned that some of the offense may be related to other moms regretting not breastfeeding, or other women regretting not having kids.

I know that when I previously got flak at church for nursing my almost 3yo in the nursery, it all seemed to be coming from women. I've heard the same thing from other moms who've been "taken aside" about breastfeeding in church.

Of course, at first I assumed that it was women coming to us, because the men were too shy. But I'm increasingly convinced that it's usually women who feel upset over other women breastfeeding.
I think that's quite possible. Sometimes women are the harshest on other women.

Some of the guys at my work are kind of ignorant about BFing and they've asked me a lot of questions about pumping. One guy even seems a little creeped out by it, since I assume he thinks of breasts as only sexual. Luckily he is open about that fact with me, and I explain to him all the benefits of BFing. I can't see even him going behind my back to my supervisor to complain.
post #36 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by Emmeline II View Post
I pumped when I was in the military, but it was for a brief period with a small underground office.

I think that respect has to go both ways since this is a workplace. Perhaps present a plan:

You will:
  • Post your sign
  • Close your door when pumping

Your co-workers will:
  • Respect your sign
  • Knock and wait for an answer before entering
  • Understand that you are not performing a sexual act, so the mere sight of your pumping apparatus on the counter while you use the toilet should be equated with leaving a dildo on the counter, nor is it a bio-hazard.
I agree with this, with the caveat that some people will just never be quite comfy with the idea of pump parts being around, ever. Now, I do insist on rinsing my parts at the kitchen sink and while it's created the odd awkward moment, I would not be willing to never clean the parts while at work - not terribly feasible in my situation. However, I only do it a couple of times a day (parts can go some time without needing to be washed), and one of those is usually later in the evening after everyone (or nearly everyone) has left. I keep my parts and pump in my desk drawer and no one ever sees them.

I laughed a bit at the forgetting to close the door thing. I've NEVER forgotten to close my door, and I do it 4x/day or more. Recently, though, because it's such a habit, I've found myself having a moment of panic in the middle of pumping thinking "Oh my gosh my door is open!!" Of course it isn't - I just closed it mechanically since it's so routine now.

I try to avoid embarassment for my coworkers. In return, I get a lot. I get to pump when and where I need to, with privacy, at my own desk. No one gives me a hard time about doing it or complains about productivity. I'm pumping right now, in fact.

To make things easier for my coworkers, I:

(1) Do not discuss pumping, unless it comes up AND the audience is appropriate (such as another pumping mom or former BF mom) OR it needs to be addressed for some reason;

(2) Am discreet about my pump parts, cleaning 1-2x/day and never leaving the parts in the kitchen or other communal area - I clean them and then dry them a bit, put them back together and take them to my office and avoid doing it a lunchtime when there are a lot of people in & out of the kitchen;

(3) Make answers to questions easy, low-key, and short. I.e. "What's that you're washing?" "Oh, those are the parts to my pump. I pump milk for my baby." Then I give a big smile and change the subject. "So how was your commute? Traffic was awful for me this morning."

(4) ALWAYS close my door, put a post-it note on the door that says "Please do not disturb - Thank you" and pull a chair in front of the door (on my side of the door) so that if someone misses the note, since I can't lock the door, no one will accidentally come in (since they would bump the chair with the door first).

It would be great if everyone was just comfy with NIP and pumping, but people aren't, so to make it easier for everyone and to make my workplace more comfortable and keep everyone happy, those are the main things I do to do my part to be polite and easygoing. In return, I get to pump for my babies (pumping for baby #2, 9 mos!) and not get hassled about it.

Good luck; I'm sure you can work it out. I would be gracious about keeping the door closed and putting a sign up, as well as being careful about the pump parts (walk them back to your desk before going to the bathroom, for example), but not be willing to pump or nurse in the storage room unless there really is a NEED for it - you should eliminate the need by making the nursing/pumping happening in your office much more seamless and easier for everyone. HTH!
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