Lots of Questions!

[kriket]

I was reading and I read this

Above the age of six or seven, it is important that boys be taught how to clean under the foreskin, making sure the skin is pulled right back. If your son cannot do that he may need circumcising. Boys frequently forget or deliberately avoid this routine and run into difficulties.

Where you and your partner keep getting 'thrush' infections Of course, you may first try creams or tablets from your doctor or chemist, but if it keeps coming back, circumcision will cure it. It did for me. The foreskin is a warm and moist incubator under which infections can easily develop

If the foreskin cannot easily be moved when the penis becomes hard, or if that causes pain - this is not only a childhood problem. At puberty, as the penis grows and masturbation begins, problems may emerge. Some men have pain on intercourse, which they then try to avoid for that reason. If so, you (and your partner) will benefit from your circumcision just as many boys do. Some men are afraid to admit to this problem, but it is curable by circumcision.

what about this,

Most boys retract by 5 if they don't its due to improper development of the penis

Boys don't retract far enough to clean and parents have to retract their sons to clean them.

If he isn't retracted before sex the forskin sticks to the walls of the vagina and provides no stimulation to his partner. (references to masturbating within his forskin)

smegma is a waste product that if not cleaned away will end up becoming crusty and smelly.

Is any of this true? (I doubt it) Where are these thoughts coming from?

[Fellow Traveler]

Originally Posted by kriket

I was reading and I read this

what about this,

Most boys retract by 5 if they don't its due to improper development of the penis

Boys don't retract far enough to clean and parents have to retract their sons to clean them.

If he isn't retracted before sex the forskin sticks to the walls of the vagina and provides no stimulation to his partner. (references to masturbating within his forskin)

smegma is a waste product that if not cleaned away will end up becoming crusty and smelly.

Is any of this true? (I doubt it) Where are these thoughts coming from?

No, where did you see this? Do you need responses to each?

[bluetoes]

oh my goodness - pure unadulterated bs! all of it. please don't believe any of it. You will find people who know different from personal experience and research. It's the circ. version of if you eat pop rocks and drink soda you'll blow up!

[kriket]

I read it here
It was rather shocking to read. Its not very well documented... but a well put together site.
I like to know both sides, but if one side is going to be silly I'm not going to worry about them.

[Fellow Traveler]

Originally Posted by kriket

I read it here
It was rather shocking to read. Its not very well documented... but a well put together site.
I like to know both sides, but if one side is going to be silly I'm not going to worry about them.

That explains a lot. That page is maintained by the GilGal Society whose purpose in life is to up sell circumcision. It is the polished edge of some other fetish sites and members of that group are responsible for a large volume of circumcision academic literature. If you want we can touch on each of those points we can.

ETA:

whois circinfo.com

Whois Server Version 2.0

Domain names in the .com and .net domains can now be registered
with many different competing registrars. Go to http://www.internic.net
for detailed information.

Domain Name: CIRCINFO.COM
Registrar: TUCOWS INC.
Whois Server: whois.tucows.com
Referral URL: http://domainhelp.opensrs.net
Name Server: NS4.SERVER-PLANT.NET
Name Server: PIPPIN.SITEFIELD.NET
Status: ok
Updated Date: 01-oct-2008
Creation Date: 04-oct-2000
Expiration Date: 04-oct-2009

>>> Last update of whois database: Thu, 18 Dec 2008 20:58:07 EST <<<

NOTICE: The expiration date displayed in this record is the date the
registrar's sponsorship of the domain name registration in the registry is
currently set to expire. This date does not necessarily reflect the expiration
date of the domain name registrant's agreement with the sponsoring
registrar. Users may consult the sponsoring registrar's Whois database to
view the registrar's reported date of expiration for this registration.

TERMS OF USE: You are not authorized to access or query our Whois
database through the use of electronic processes that are high-volume and
automated except as reasonably necessary to register domain names or
modify existing registrations; the Data in VeriSign Global Registry
Services' ("VeriSign") Whois database is provided by VeriSign for
information purposes only, and to assist persons in obtaining information
about or related to a domain name registration record. VeriSign does not
guarantee its accuracy. By submitting a Whois query, you agree to abide
by the following terms of use: You agree that you may use this Data only
for lawful purposes and that under no circumstances will you use this Data
to: (1) allow, enable, or otherwise support the transmission of mass
unsolicited, commercial advertising or solicitations via e-mail, telephone,
or facsimile; or (2) enable high volume, automated, electronic processes
that apply to VeriSign (or its computer systems). The compilation,
repackaging, dissemination or other use of this Data is expressly
prohibited without the prior written consent of VeriSign. You agree not to
use electronic processes that are automated and high-volume to access or
query the Whois database except as reasonably necessary to register
domain names or modify existing registrations. VeriSign reserves the right
to restrict your access to the Whois database in its sole discretion to ensure
operational stability. VeriSign may restrict or terminate your access to the
Whois database for failure to abide by these terms of use. VeriSign
reserves the right to modify these terms at any time.

The Registry database contains ONLY .COM, .NET, .EDU domains and
Registrars.Registrant:
The Gilgal Society
PO Box 53515
Upper Norwood, London SE19 2TX
GB

Domain name: CIRCINFO.COM


Administrative Contact:
Quaintance, Vernon [e-mail]
PO Box 53515
Upper Norwood, London SE19 2TX
GB
[phone]
Technical Contact:
Lyons, John [e-mail]
12 The Boulevard
Rhyl, Denbighshire LL18 4S5
UK
01745369351 Fax: [phone]

[2boyzmama]

Originally Posted by kriket

I read it here
It was rather shocking to read. Its not very well documented... but a well put together site.
I like to know both sides, but if one side is going to be silly I'm not going to worry about them.

I commend you for researching both sides, that's always a good idea

My guideline when it comes to so many of my parenting decisions is: "What is the biological norm?" Boys are born with foreskins, therefore it is the biological norm. If all the problems that site states happened at any even slightly significant frequency, males would not have thrived for thousands of years! And what about in all the countries in the world where circ is not done, how do those poor men (and women) manage? (sarcasm there!)

Yes, once the foreskin is naturally retractable, a young boy should be taught how to clean it (which is just retract, rinse, replace. No soap, no scrubbing, nothing fancy). But if he doesn't clean behind his ears, would you resort to removing his outer ear? Probably not!

Yes, there is the rare case where an extremely tight foreskin is a problem as an adult when sexual function begins, but stretching and on occassion steroid creams are simple fixes to that problem. And it is rare that would occur. I don't have any stats to back this up, but I would imagine that it's more likely that a dr would remove too much skin during circ and cause similar problems.

Yes, yeast and other infections are more likely to "collect" under a foreskin if you have one, just like they are more likely to "collect" in the labia of women. But we don't suggest removing women's labias as a cure. You just treat it. If it is a recurring problem, adjust your diet, change your underwear more frequently, keep soap out of the area, use antifungal creams. Simple fixes that don't require surgery.

I could go on and on, but I get the impression that you are alread doubting what you are reading.

My husband is not circ'd, and he does not have any of these issues. Obviously he is just one person, and you can't draw any conclusions from an anecdotal story. I'm glad you're doing the research, so many people don't do it! Remember...biological norm.

[kriket]

jwhispers: that makes so much more sence. I felt like the site was written by doctors silly me!

if you could address the chances of penis thrush (?) and not being able to retract when erect? I know I have heard from a few people that "tearing" is a major concern. I think if the foreskin is to tight and you try to have sex they think you can tear? I was with an intact man for 4 years and I never heard him complain once. DH is circed so I can't do reconnaissance

Also, sorry I don't have the details on this story, but I once had a cowoker who's daughters, son (keeping up? ) had to have another surgery to make an incision inside his body because his circ was done incorrectly? What could this have been? Sorry, for the lack of details, its been about 5 years since this happened.

I think I'm overly nervous that something (minor) is going to happen to my intact son and someone is going to laugh in my face. (which I would be tempted to punch )

[Fellow Traveler]

Originally Posted by kriket

jwhispers: that makes so much more sence. I felt like the site was written by doctors silly me!

if you could address the chances of penis thrush (?) and not being able to retract when erect? I know I have heard from a few people that "tearing" is a major concern. I think if the foreskin is to tight and you try to have sex they think you can tear? I was with an intact man for 4 years and I never heard him complain once. DH is circed so I can't do reconnaissance

You bet. Here is a site out of the UK that was written by an actual Dr.
http://www.netdoctor.co.uk/menshealt...rcumcision.htm

Yeast infection (caused by candida or thrush) is equally common in circumcised and uncircumcised men, although circumcised men are less likely to have symptoms with this infection so they are more likely to unknowingly pass on thrush to their sexual partners.

I've never heard of the foreskin tearing during sex but I suppose it could happen if it was very tight and you were particularly rough. I am an intact guy and have never had an issue like that. There are some boys who might arrive into their mid teens not being able to retract their foreskin. The numbers are very small and the best treatment involves a topical steroid cream. Though even if he can't retract it doesn't usually cause painful erections. I think as long as he knows what to expect, insofar as how things work, before he completely shuts you out he would recognize that and talk to his doctor about it.

Probably the worst [most unexpected] thing that might happen to your son is what is call 'separation soreness'. Usually starting around 2 or 3 the foreskin starts the process of separation. For most boys this passes unnoticed but some might experience soreness/tenderness once or twice during the process and ballooning might also occur which only looks problematic. If the boy notices, for most it is transient and only a minor nuisance a very small number might get very sore and I'll add that this is what is most often misinterpreted as infection. We even have a thread for it that I'll bump up for you. I think it can best be described as a growing pain like teething but most never realize it happened.

Originally Posted by kriket

Also, sorry I don't have the details on this story, but I once had a cowoker who's daughters, son (keeping up? ) had to have another surgery to make an incision inside his body because his circ was done incorrectly? What could this have been? Sorry, for the lack of details, its been about 5 years since this happened.

I think I'm overly nervous that something (minor) is going to happen to my intact son and someone is going to laugh in my face. (which I would be tempted to punch )

My best guess is that an overly aggressive circumcision could bury the penis that way. It would pull itself into the body. Nothing will happen to your son I promise. I've never had problems myself so don't worry too much.

[MCatLvrMom2A&X]

yeast for men is treated the exact same way as it is for woman a full course of yeast medication either monistate 7 day or prescription the little pink pill I cannot thing of the name of right now.

If only one partner has yeast symptoms both should be treated because yeast can be there and not really show up. They should be treated at the same time because if not they will keep giving it back to each other.

A woman who has repeat yeast infections dont have anything cut off and we have way more moist areas down there than a man has.

Diet changes are usually very helpful as well with cronic yeast.

[momongeon]

It's the circ. version of if you eat pop rocks and drink soda you'll blow up!

laughup Do you mind if I use that one? I LOVE IT!!!!

[perspective]

Originally Posted by kriket

Is any of this true? (I doubt it) Where are these thoughts coming from?

I wanted to respond to this stuff for the lurkers. First I will just respond to a few things in your actual post, and then I will respond to the quotes.

smegma- is not a waste product but something taht both men and woman have and serves a useful purpose.

Retraction (sex)- A guy that does not have a fully retractable foreskin can still have a fully happy and health sex like. For both him AND his partner.

Retraction (washing)- Anywhere where the foreskin has not retracted past yet is an area that does NOT need to be cleaned. The area is still fused to the head, dirt and germs cannot get under there.

Above the age of six or seven, it is important that boys be taught how to clean under the foreskin, making sure the skin is pulled right back. If your son cannot do that he may need circumcising. Boys frequently forget or deliberately avoid this routine and run into difficulties.

The average age of retraction is 11-12 (these ages are from a study done in the netherlands that used a large amount of data to determine the average age of retraction.

The rest of this quote is slightly sexist. The old myth that boys cant wash themselves properly. Parents teach children a number of habits, and guess what? They learn them. And honestly, do you really think you need to TEACH a little boy to play with his penis?! If anything its the rest of his body parents should be worried gets clean.

Quote:
Where you and your partner keep getting 'thrush' infections...circumcision will cure it. It did for me. The foreskin is a warm and moist incubator under which infections can easily develop

Circumcision is not a cure, its an amputation. Amputations are not medical solutions they are last resort options (usually only done to save that part of the body from dying, or to stop the spread of infection)

The result of thrush has as much blame from the "warm and moist incubator" of the vagina, as it does the warm place under the foreskin.

If someone doctor resorted to circumcision to kill the thrush, then they obviously are a horrible doctor. Anyway the doctor advises to treat the woman's case of thrush can be applied to the man as well.

[Fyrestorm]

Originally Posted by perspective

If someone doctor resorted to circumcision to kill the thrush, then they obviously are a horrible doctor. Anyway the doctor advises to treat the woman's case of thrush can be applied to the man as well.

OMG...I just made a leap of logic...if doctors amputate for thrush, how many breastfeeding woman would be walking around without breasts?

[MCatLvrMom2A&X]

: it is so rediculous to even consider cutting parts off for yeast. I knew a woman who had yeast all over her body not an option to cut things off then.

[MyBoysBlue]

I know some women are more prone to yeast than others. Though I've never had a yeast infection and my DH is intact.

I love the Intact and no Problems Thread.

http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=589908

Very reassuring.

Added: Top Ten Ways Circumcised Sex Hurts Women
http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=709119

[Claire and Boys]

heh... my youngest has a yeast rash on his bum currently...maybe I should just cut it off eh?

that site is stupid. I get thrush infections after sex sometimes and my husband is circed. So what should we be cutting off next?

[Yulia_R]

Originally Posted by Claire and Boys

I get thrush infections after sex sometimes and my husband is circed. So what should we be cutting off next?

I get yeast after sex too (and my dh is cut) . It's all because we are not circ'd

In reality, I think that my yeast problems are partially due to my dh being cut . You see, cut desensitized penis required much more thrust and thrust trigger yeast in women who are prone to it.
I didn't have this problem with my first husband who was intact as well as we didn't have some other sex related problems.

[Fyrestorm]

I think cut men might not realize they have yeast and continue to pass it back and forth because they lack the mucosal membrane and sensitivity that would allow them to notice a yeast infection.

[JustVanessa]

My mom swears the smegma thing is true.....she is an RN and has seen many old men in the hospital who cannot retract their forskin and get infections. (She is not pro-circ, she was just telling me with info of cleaning etc)

[Fyrestorm]

I believe Smegma is Latin for Soap!!

[Greg B]

Originally Posted by JustVanessa

My mom swears the smegma thing is true.....she is an RN and has seen many old men in the hospital who cannot retract their forskin and get infections. (She is not pro-circ, she was just telling me with info of cleaning etc)

Many people believe many things that are not true, because they rely on their observations. Humans' are good at filtering observations and drawing conclusions and linkages whether they are supported or not. That is where logic and the scientific method serve us well, as they force objectivity and accurracy before linkages and conclusions are drawn.

Regards