Canada, CPS, and Breastfeeding Older Kids

[mammal_mama]

I'm just curious as to whether the new Canadian law (where it's now illegal to interfere with a breastfeeding mother and child) provides more security for mothers with older nurslings.

Of course, maybe Canada has never been weird about this like the U.S. has. Here in the U.S., we sometimes hear about Children's Services getting hotlined when someone learns about, say, a 5 or 6yo child still nursing. And in at least a couple of cases, a child has been forced to serve time in foster care over this (some "service," huh?).

I was just wondering, if we can make it illegal everywhere for anyone to interfere with the breastfeeding relationship, would that create a world where no mothers need fear getting hotlined if the "wrong person" happens to hear about them nursing an older child?

[PatioGardener]

Originally Posted by mammal_mama

I'm just curious as to whether the new Canadian law (where it's now illegal to interfere with a breastfeeding mother and child) provides more security for mothers with older nurslings.

I think you may be refering to the Ontario Human Rights law that protects mothers breastfeeding in public? I may be wrong, but I think it is a provincial, rather than national thing.

I can't remember a case of a child being removed from a family because of full-term nursing... hopefully it never has and never will happen here!

[mammal_mama]

Originally Posted by PatioGardener

I think you may be refering to the Ontario Human Rights law that protects mothers breastfeeding in public? I may be wrong, but I think it is a provincial, rather than national thing.

Oh, yes, I actually thought it was a national law.

I can't remember a case of a child being removed from a family because of full-term nursing... hopefully it never has and never will happen here!

I hope not, too!

[soso-lynn]

Canada, fundamentally, is not into using courts to debate "moral" issues. In the US, people who think that it is wrong for someone to BF a 5 year old will call CPS. In Canada, they will either approach the woman and have a polite conversation about it or not do anything. Same thing for people who actually suspect abuse, they will most likely go and offer some help or advice before calling CPS.

I doubt CPS would even do anything if someone called them with the only accusation being that a woman is still nursing her school-aged child.

[mammal_mama]

Wow, it sounds like Americans could learn a thing or two from Canadians ...

I wonder how our cultures evolved so differently?

[syd'smom]

Luckily, with the Ontario Human Rights law in place, the rest of us in Canada could use it as a precedent/example. I dare someone to hassle me while I'm nursing!

[sahmama_12]

According to Infact Canada: your rights to breastfeed anywhere anytime is protected by the charter. That makes it national.
http://www.infactcanada.ca/Breastfeeding_Rights.htm

Only Ontario and BC actually have human rights commisions that outline specific breastfeeding rights like access to pumping facilities at work, etc. But technically even in Alberta you have the anywhere, anytime right. I think the only place in Canada you cannot bf is in a courtroom b/c babies are not permitted there. But that only applies to the actual courtroom.

[PatioGardener]

Originally Posted by sahmama_12

According to Infact Canada: your rights to breastfeed anywhere anytime is protected by the charter. That makes it national.
http://www.infactcanada.ca/Breastfeeding_Rights.htm

Only Ontario and BC actually have human rights commisions that outline specific breastfeeding rights like access to pumping facilities at work, etc. But technically even in Alberta you have the anywhere, anytime right. I think the only place in Canada you cannot bf is in a courtroom b/c babies are not permitted there. But that only applies to the actual courtroom.

good to know - thanks for posting!

[Twinklefae]

Originally Posted by sahmama_12

According to Infact Canada: your rights to breastfeed anywhere anytime is protected by the charter. That makes it national.
http://www.infactcanada.ca/Breastfeeding_Rights.htm

Only Ontario and BC actually have human rights commissions that outline specific breastfeeding rights like access to pumping facilities at work, etc. But technically even in Alberta you have the anywhere, anytime right. I think the only place in Canada you cannot bf is in a courtroom b/c babies are not permitted there. But that only applies to the actual courtroom.

That is incorrect. Nova Scotia does, it was presented to me at my prenatal classes, and all my friends who are waiters know that they are not allowed to do anything (ask to move/cover up) with a breastfeeding woman.

We are protected by the Nova Scotia Human Rights Commission.

Here's the link http://www.gov.ns.ca/hpp/repPub/Prov...ing_Policy.pdf

It says "up to two years and beyond" so yeah I'd say protected.

[FancyD]

Originally Posted by soso-lynn

In Canada, they will either approach the woman and have a polite conversation about it or not do anything. Same thing for people who actually suspect abuse, they will most likely go and offer some help or advice before calling CPS.

?

i am canadian, and that is not what 'we' do. people most certainly call CAS if they suspect abuse. i least i hope so.

[mammal_mama]

Originally Posted by FancyD

?

i am canadian, and that is not what 'we' do. people most certainly call CAS if they suspect abuse. i least i hope so.

I didn't get the impression that soso-lynn meant Canadians wouldn't call CAS if they had a strong suspicion of severe abuse going on.

Some of us see abusive behavior more as a spectrum. I feel it's entering the realm of abuse when I'm having a bad day (or a bad hour) and snapping at my kids and being a real grouch, even though I don't raise a hand to my children or call them names or anything.

I think I'd be an abusive parent if I had bad moments like this frequently -- and it concerns me whenever I act like that. It makes me take a step back, apologize to my children, and re-think my focus, because if I'm being mean to those most precious to me, then I'm obviously getting my priorities mixed up.

Sadly, there are some Americans who will see a stressed-out mom screaming at her kids in a grocery-store parking lot, and get all concerned that "if she acts like that in public, she must beat them 'behind closed doors.'" And these individuals actually feel it's their duty to take down the mother's license-plate number and phone it in to the authorities, so that someone can go and "make sure everything's all right."

While I think the stressed-out mom in the parking-lot is crossing a line into abusive behavior, I don't think getting stressed and screaming is in the same league with behaviors like beating and molestation. I think the stressed-out mother could do with a kind word and an offer of help -- while I think anyone who would brutally beat or molest a child needs to go to a place where s/he can't hurt children anymore.

So, I don't want to put words into soso-lynn's mouth, but I got the impression that she meant Canadians were more likely to help overwhelmed-parents, and weren't in a big hurry to report them. Again, I didn't read her post as saying that Canadians wouldn't call CAS if severe abuse was suspected.

[FancyD]

Originally Posted by mammal_mama

So, I don't want to put words into soso-lynn's mouth, but I got the impression that she meant Canadians were more likely to help overwhelmed-parents, and weren't in a big hurry to report them.

well, that's not true either, FWIW. Canadians are much like Americans. it is generally more friendly to nursing, and EBF can be common, depending on where you live.