Anyone else have a spouse that does not agree with your decision not to vax??

[listipton]

dh and i do not agree about my decision to not vax our dd or ds. i stopped vaxing dd after her 6 mo shots (although I couldn't really explain it to anyone- it was just the feeling that it wasn't right...) and ds has never had a shot. I've been hoping that dh would slowly start to agree with me, but sadly, I am a bad debater and have a hard time coming up with "facts" when the opportunity presents itself for a good conversation on why I feel the way I feel (he doesn't buy my "mommy-instinct" reasoning). What are some convincing arguments that I can have ready that don't involve complex scientific reasoning and what have any of you done when you didn't agree on this very important topic. I don't think he'll do anything drastic like take them to the fp or health dept. on his own, but if I have to have him take the kids to the fp for anything and they note to him that they aren't vaxed and "we'll just catch them up since you're here today", I doubt he would question the fp and they would be loaded up...and he'd give me crap about it. any advice?? thank in advance!

[PaigeC]

First of all, I LOVE your kids names! Harrison was one of our boy names.

So, what type of argument do you think is most likely to influence your DH. For me there are 3 ways to look at it.

1. Is he afraid of childhood diseases? Maybe his misgivings are primarily that he believes the hype that measles kills. If that is the case I would point out the CDC's own numbers about these diseases. Their own materials usually show that the disease is only very rarely serious/lethal and usually when confounding factors exist. For example, polio which we've all been led to believe is "deadly" is in fact a mild illness for 95% of people and completely recoverable in another 4.9%. The people who get the terrible paralysis are literally .01% Another is tetanus, where we believe it is "easy" to get and quite deadly. I was surprised to see that an average of 40 people PER YEAR get it in the US. They are normally over 40, don't have good wound hygiene or are IV drug users. Hardly something to fear in your child if you have access to good medical care in the case of a horrible illness.

2. Maybe he is more trusting in the safety of vaccines so he feels "why not vaccinate"? Here, I think that the vaccine inserts are the most telling (the CDC documents really downplay the side effects). They have to be forthcoming about any bad stuff that has happened for legal purposes. I like rxlist.com. The side effect are horrible. You can also look at SIDS and vaccines or type I diabetes and vaccines. Both are pretty clearly linked.

3. Lastly, if he is religious this one works for me. The idea that God made a mistake in his balance of pathogens with our functioning immune system. Not that medical care is bad but vaccines are kind of predicated on the fact that our bodies weren't meant to handle these diseases. I believe that the idea of "eradicating" diseases is kind of arrogant, not possible, and will have negative effects we can't imagine (i.e. shingles killing adults instead of chicken pox)

[amnesiac]

Maybe some of this will be helpful:
http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=662750

[laohaire]

Originally Posted by PaigeC

3. Lastly, if he is religious this one works for me. The idea that God made a mistake in his balance of pathogens with our functioning immune system. Not that medical care is bad but vaccines are kind of predicated on the fact that our bodies weren't meant to handle these diseases. I believe that the idea of "eradicating" diseases is kind of arrogant, not possible, and will have negative effects we can't imagine (i.e. shingles killing adults instead of chicken pox)

Additionally, a religious argument also includes the fact that animal DNA is being injected into human bodies, against God's design. Not just "medicine" but actual animal DNA. And in case he thinks "well, we eat meat all the time, what's the diff?" it is indeed scientifically different to inject DNA rather than putting meat through our digestive systems.

[kriket]

You should really ask your DH to find compelling evidence TO vax. You need to have a debate and work this out. If your "motherly instinct" isn't good enough for him then "they say so" shouldn't be good enough for you!

Good luck mama, maybe you can settle on minimal vaxes?

[Ophelia]

I am SO there with you DH and I are in a somewhat better place than when DS was newborn (he was actually scaring and threatening me), but he still disagrees with me (so he says at our counseling appt), although another time he said my stats were better, so who knows. he seems to change his tune.

One thing that REALLY helped was I got the Dr. Jay Gordon vaccination DVD and we watched it together. It really opened his eyes that no, his baby is not going to die if he doesn't get every single vax. The DVD is middle-of-the-road and does not talk about some important things, but it's a great starting point and does go through all major vaxes, and general immunity and health information, including breastfeeding. The DVD is great since most men dont' seem to want to research or read books. Also, the Sheri Tenpenny DVD I've heard is awesome, I have links to it online on my website if you want to check it. I started watching it, she goes into a lot of detail.

And really, I just had to research the crap out of every vax and disease myself (and still am) so I am knowledgable when it comes to talking time. Just try and get him to hold off until you can research more. I was unable to do that (DS vaxed up until 12mo) and I may never forgive myself.

this might help too: http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=621574

[Emmeline II]

1. Name of the disease
2. Description of the disease
3. Length of time from initial infection to end of all symptoms
4. Infectious period
5. Normal symptoms of the disease
6. Known serious consequences of the disease
7. Proportion of persons infected developing serious consequences
8. Transmission route of the disease
9. Prevalence of the disease
10. Treatments of the disease and efficacy of those treatments
11. Relevant research about the disease
12. Name of the vaccine
13. Company that makes the vaccine
14. Contents of the vaccine
14A. The significance of whether or not the vaccine is live
15. History of development of the vaccine
16. Known side-effects of the vaccine and rate of incidence of those side-effects
17. Possible side-effects not yet acknowledged by the vaccine maker
18. Relevant research into the vaccine
19. How effective is the vaccine at preventing the disease?
20.What is the vaccine meant to do? (Many vaccines are not meant to prevent infection or transmission).
21.Number of cases reported each year.
22.Number of deaths reported each year from the vaccine and natural disease.

Here are some sources to help you out:

Inside Vaccines

http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/mmwr_wk.html (download the current issue)
http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/pubs/pin...k-chapters.htm
http://vaers.hhs.gov/pdf/PackageInserts.pdf
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...40451107552&q=
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...87981735&hl=en
http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/pubs/pin...ses&deaths.pdf

[3kidsclmr]

My DH pretty much stays out of the decision making when it comes to vaccines. I wish he were more involved and actually showed some interest. I don't want to be making these kind of decisions all on my own.

[applejuice]

My DH agreed with me about not vaccinating because of his experience as a child and as a soldier with vaccinations. He had terrible reactions.

Does your DH have any friends who are veterans? Tell him to have a man-to-man talk with those guys who got jabs from Desert Storm or any recent military insurgence.

[ema-adama]

Originally Posted by listipton

dh and i do not agree about my decision to not vax our dd or ds. i stopped vaxing dd after her 6 mo shots (although I couldn't really explain it to anyone- it was just the feeling that it wasn't right...) and ds has never had a shot.

It sounds like you have made a decision without your DH, and perhaps that is why he is not totally on board. I know that I used to feel that I had made the dicision as DH just did not have the time to read near as much as I was reading. It still does feel like it is mostly 'my' decision, but DH so far has not found any compelling information that requires us to vax our DS.

I've been hoping that dh would slowly start to agree with me, but sadly, I am a bad debater and have a hard time coming up with "facts" when the opportunity presents itself for a good conversation on why I feel the way I feel (he doesn't buy my "mommy-instinct" reasoning).

I used to think that - that I was not a good debator and therefore I could never present a coherent case for not vaxing. Not true. With a bit of time, I actually can make a somewhat coherent case, and it helps that I do not feel like there is a needle at DS's thigh and I am having to present everything in seconds before he is vaccinated. Today there is an understanding between me and DH that we are making an informed decision and we have to be able to make a case one way or another and there is no rush. No needles until we are making a fully informed and rational decision (without all the fear that our son will surely die without the vax)

What are some convincing arguments that I can have ready that don't involve complex scientific reasoning and what have any of you done when you didn't agree on this very important topic.

Why rush? Go through the list of questions Emmiline put up. For me it is not a matter of convincing DH not to vax, but both of us looking for solid reasons why it would be a good idea to vax or not vax. Trying to talk to someone who has not read very much and does not know very much is horribly frustrating.

I don't think he'll do anything drastic like take them to the fp or health dept. on his own, but if I have to have him take the kids to the fp for anything and they note to him that they aren't vaxed and "we'll just catch them up since you're here today", I doubt he would question the fp and they would be loaded up...and he'd give me crap about it. any advice?? thank in advance!

Again, go through the list of questions in a PP and do it with your DH. My DH has finally agreed to sit down and do this with me for polio and tetanus as these are the last two vaxs he is nervous about. Yes, this takes a huge amount of time and there are no easy answers. Each family has to find what works for them.

Good luck

[applejuice]

Tetanus is the last vaccine for many to give up on. It was for my Father, the Chiropractor, and it was for Dr. Mendelsohn, as he stated in one of his lectures that I attended.

There was a study done on WWII veterans that showed that most of them had titres for tetanus from the vaccinations they had received forty years before, or from just having natural immunity, so who knows?

[plunky]

Originally Posted by amnesiac

Maybe some of this will be helpful:
http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=662750

I read this thread, and what I took away from it was: deceive your DH into thinking you're delaying vax but really intend to never do it. Pretty terrible.

[peainthepod]

Unvaxed is the default. Rather than expecting you to justify letting your daughter's immune system work naturally without being tampered with, he needs to show you why vaccines are necessary for her health. Not "recommended" by bought-and-paid-for sources, but necessary. If they aren't necessary, then how can he justify the substantial risk of a reaction and/or long term injury?

I am lucky that my DH is on board with not vaxing, but if he weren't, that would have been my argument. Good luck.

[MeadowAndColtsMama]

My ds had vax up to age 5, when I had dd she had first round and then I began reading Mothering Mag, questioning and educating myself, when I talked to our ped. (living in Santa Cruz, CA- pretty 'free-thinking' 'authority-questioning' area) her advice was to ONLY vaccinate for life-threatening illness and that is with keeping in mind the population in that area is 25% no vax, so I felt that was balanced and agreed and she has only had those couple vax and no more.(Ds hasn't had any more either) My dh is a SUPER mainstream hill-billy But for him, he felt like "OK, we have the doctor's advice!" And that was enough. But even with my research and everything he would not have agreed with me if I hadn't talked to the fp. So maybe if you found a crunchy fp? Just an idea. I thought I'd share.

[Mama~Love]

DH disagrees with me on it, but he's "medically-minded" as an EMT. We don't discuss it anymore .

[Ophelia]

Originally Posted by wild~blossom

DH disagrees with me on it, but he's "medically-minded" as an EMT. We don't discuss it anymore .

But at some point you either have to agree to vax, not vax, or selectively vax. DH and I don't discuss it much either, even though we should. Our previous discussions usually ended with both of us not feeling like we are getting through. Actually, I try by sending him info via email but I don't know if he reads it.

[Mama~Love]

Originally Posted by Ophelia

But at some point you either have to agree to vax, not vax, or selectively vax. DH and I don't discuss it much either, even though we should. Our previous discussions usually ended with both of us not feeling like we are getting through. Actually, I try by sending him info via email but I don't know if he reads it.

In the meantime, I'm not allowing any of the kids to have anymore shots. He's done NO research on it, only has his narrow-minded and incorrect assumptions about it.

If I dropped dead today, I can guarantee tomorrow he'd bring them all in & get them up-to-date, along with enrolling the girls in school. I feel that since I'm the primary parent, have done all the research, my opinion matters slightly more than his.

[listipton]

thanks for all the responses and info !! I started researching all the diseases and I think that when I present everything I've looked up, he'll be more open to an actual discussion...and feel like he helped make the decision as well and back me up when the in-laws get all up in arms about things. It has really helped me to have so many perspectives & I just wanted to say thanks!