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So, have I got this right  

post #1 of 9
Thread Starter 
about vaccines? I want to understand these diseases well.

I have been reading many books for a while, mostly anti vaccine. However, Romm's book seems really good but she almost seems pro tetanus. Dr Sears’s book, which I just started reading, seems very pro vaccine. My son is un vaccinated so far, and I think he will stay so until he is much older. If we start traveling then I may consider some vaccines, but I don’t plan to travel outside of the country. That would probably only happen if my son had the personality of wanting to travel and do missionary work outside of the country. I am undecided about a future tetanus vaccine, but that will be when he is much older.

So here is what I have learned about vaccines.

Diphtheria seems irrelevant if you aren't traveling out of the country. Only one child per year gets it and at the most five people get it with some years having no reported cases. Most people are carriers of the bacterium but show no symptoms other than maybe the symptoms of the common cold. Also, I have read on MDC that diphtheria is something that you would see in more third world, unsanitary conditions. I haven’t read much about this though, so I don’t quite understand it. Since it is spread like the common cold, then just breathing it in is a possibility. However most people who carry it, show no symptoms or uncomplicated symptoms. So what I want to understand is what pushes a person into getting this particular disease in the more serious form?

Pertussis is dangerous in the first 6 months of life. However, past that point its risks are acceptable. So what I haven't read so far, is if you are breastfeeding in the first 6 months of life, then is it possible to get this disease or is there much less susceptibility if the child is breastfeeding and not in daycare. Also, I have read there is no permanent immunity if you get it, but I think most of the vaccine books say there is permanent immunity if you get pertussis. Which is it?

Tetanus is so unlikely in a child that it isn't worth getting the vaccine. It is an anaerobic bacterium that would produce a toxin only in a wound which isn't properly cleaned and even if there is a high chance of getting tetanus from a dirty puncture wound then there is the TIG treatment. Also this disease is seen mostly in the elderly. Proper wound care seems to be the best way to prevent it. I haven't read anywhere, except on MDC that bleeding will prevent the bacterium from multiplying and creating the toxin which causes problems with paralysis. This seems like flawed thinking because if any of the germ is missed in the wound care, even if there was bleeding, then when the body and skin heal over, this is when the germ would produce the toxin. Do I understand this correctly? I haven’t read that oxygen would kill the bacterium. Tetanus produces the toxin in an anaerobic environment but not an oxygenated environment.

Hib is everywhere. It is mostly a serious issue in children under two, but after the age of two is isn’t seen very often. Also those who do carry it often don’t show symptoms or just symptoms of the common cold. So what pushes a person into the more serious form of Hib? Also, this is not something that you would have to worry about as much if you are breastfeeding and the child isn’t in daycare. It isn’t really seen in adults? According to Dr Sears this vaccine is one of the safest.

Measles, mumps, rubella, and chicken pox would be desirable to catch in childhood in the healthy individual and confer permanent immunity whereas the vaccines do not. The incidences of serious complications from the actual diseases are low. With good medical care if needed, good nutrition and rest it seems like it would be better to get these diseases in childhood because as an adult or even an adolescent these diseases seem to have more complications. So, it is like we are awaiting an epidemic of these diseases as adults because children are usually vaccinated whereas adults aren’t? Rubella is dangerous if contracted during pregnancy for the baby. MMR is one of the more reactive vaccines.

Hepatitis B is really an STD or contracted from mother to child. This wouldn’t be something to consider unless I had a sexually active, out of control, drug using teenager, or if I lived with a Hep B carrier.

Influenza isn’t usually deadly and just feels miserable for a few days. With overall good health and nutrition, we will survive. Maybe only the elderly are at risk.

Polio…usually the carrier has very mild symptoms, but some people get the paralytic kind. So I want to know why? It is more prevalent in other countries and pretty much eradicated in the US.

Meningococcal is serious. I haven’t read anything on this yet. This is a new vaccine though, isn’t it? I use to work for a pediatrician and don’t remember this one.
post #2 of 9
I think you seem to have a grasp on it. I have read some article that link polio paralysis to wide spread DDT use. That the actual chance of polio paralyzing someone is quite small.

http://insidevaccines.com/wordpress/...tats-iv-polio/
post #3 of 9
Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyaW View Post

Diphtheria seems irrelevant if you aren't traveling out of the country. Only one child per year gets it and at the most five people get it with some years having no reported cases. Most people are carriers of the bacterium but show no symptoms other than maybe the symptoms of the common cold. Also, I have read on MDC that diphtheria is something that you would see in more third world, unsanitary conditions. I haven’t read much about this though, so I don’t quite understand it. Since it is spread like the common cold, then just breathing it in is a possibility. However most people who carry it, show no symptoms or uncomplicated symptoms. So what I want to understand is what pushes a person into getting this particular disease in the more serious form?
Diptheria gave me pause also. My main reason for not doing it is that it is ONLY available (from what I can find) in DTaP or Td and there is no way under heaven I would give this vaccine because of its link to SIDS.
“more than two-thirds [of studied SIDS deaths] had been vaccinated with DPT prior to death. Of these, 6.5 percent died within 12 hours of vaccination; 13 percent within 24 hours; 26 percent within three days; and 37, 61, and 70 percent within one, two, and three weeks, respectively.”
Diptheria-pertussis-tetanus (DPT) immunization: A potential cause of the sudden infant death. WC Torch - Neurology, 1982

Also, in the US Since 1980 there are .001 cases of diptheria per 100,000 and no reported deaths.

Quote:
Pertussis is dangerous in the first 6 months of life. However, past that point its risks are acceptable. So what I haven't read so far, is if you are breastfeeding in the first 6 months of life, then is it possible to get this disease or is there much less susceptibility if the child is breastfeeding and not in daycare. Also, I have read there is no permanent immunity if you get it, but I think most of the vaccine books say there is permanent immunity if you get pertussis. Which is it?
I believe that pertussis is a normal childhood illness that kids can benefit from. My other reasons for not vaxing: (1) the chance of death from whooping cough with medical treatment is .2%, and (2) vaccination is shown to increase, by more than double, the rate of childhood asthma.

Quote:
Tetanus is so unlikely in a child that it isn't worth getting the vaccine. It is an anaerobic bacterium that would produce a toxin only in a wound which isn't properly cleaned and even if there is a high chance of getting tetanus from a dirty puncture wound then there is the TIG treatment. Also this disease is seen mostly in the elderly. Proper wound care seems to be the best way to prevent it. I haven't read anywhere, except on MDC that bleeding will prevent the bacterium from multiplying and creating the toxin which causes problems with paralysis. This seems like flawed thinking because if any of the germ is missed in the wound care, even if there was bleeding, then when the body and skin heal over, this is when the germ would produce the toxin. Do I understand this correctly? I haven’t read that oxygen would kill the bacterium. Tetanus produces the toxin in an anaerobic environment but not an oxygenated environment.
Oxygen does kill the bacterium. If you had a wound so bad that they felt it couldn't be cleaned adequately (maybe a crush wound) they would give TIG and other treatment and monitor for signs of tetanus infection. There are only 40 cases per year in the US and almost all are in people over 40 - often IV drug users. Tetanus is a less likely than getting struck by lightening. Completely not worth the pain of a shot let alone the side effect of DTaP IMO.

Quote:
Hib is everywhere. It is mostly a serious issue in children under two, but after the age of two is isn’t seen very often. Also those who do carry it often don’t show symptoms or just symptoms of the common cold. So what pushes a person into the more serious form of Hib? Also, this is not something that you would have to worry about as much if you are breastfeeding and the child isn’t in daycare. It isn’t really seen in adults? According to Dr Sears this vaccine is one of the safest.
I haven't finished researching this one yet. This is where I'll start: http://insidevaccines.com/wordpress/...ines-work/hib/

Quote:
Measles, mumps, rubella, and chicken pox would be desirable to catch in childhood in the healthy individual and confer permanent immunity whereas the vaccines do not. The incidences of serious complications from the actual diseases are low. With good medical care if needed, good nutrition and rest it seems like it would be better to get these diseases in childhood because as an adult or even an adolescent these diseases seem to have more complications. So, it is like we are awaiting an epidemic of these diseases as adults because children are usually vaccinated whereas adults aren’t? Rubella is dangerous if contracted during pregnancy for the baby. MMR is one of the more reactive vaccines.
All right here. I believe M, M, and R are valuable childhood illnesses.

Quote:
Hepatitis B is really an STD or contracted from mother to child. This wouldn’t be something to consider unless I had a sexually active, out of control, drug using teenager, or if I lived with a Hep B carrier.
Amen, dumbest vaccine ever, lol.

Quote:
Influenza isn’t usually deadly and just feels miserable for a few days. With overall good health and nutrition, we will survive. Maybe only the elderly are at risk.
Plus the vaccine is about as effective as unicorn pee (lol, sorry I'm in a loopy mood)

Quote:
Polio…usually the carrier has very mild symptoms, but some people get the paralytic kind. So I want to know why? It is more prevalent in other countries and pretty much eradicated in the US.
My research really leads me to believe that the "epidemic" of polio seen in the 20th century was in fact acute DDT poisoning. Even Roosevelt probably didn't have polio. I detailed my research with references in a blog post: http://babydustdiaries.wordpress.com...aralyzes-kids/

Quote:
Meningococcal is serious. I haven’t read anything on this yet. This is a new vaccine though, isn’t it? I use to work for a pediatrician and don’t remember this one.
I haven't read as much about this one yet because it isn't on the infant schedule (right?). This is on my to do list.

I hope some of this helps. I feel liberated through knowing the truth about these vaccines.
post #4 of 9
I think you've got it!

Here is a site where you can learn more about the meningococcal vaccine -


www.insidevaccines.com/wordpress
post #5 of 9
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gitti View Post
I think you've got it!

Here is a site where you can learn more about the meningococcal vaccine -


www.insidevaccines.com/wordpress
i agree with everyone, and your being cautious, but you cant just do research in an anti-vax site, that site has extremely biased, filtered information. I would want to look at many places of reference, even those pro-vax, they arent wrong because they are pro-vax, but rather very valid too. I dont vax my son, but not because I think the risk of disease is low, but because I think the vaxes are unsafe- If Hib is every where, then I would be worried about it, and really see what the chances of my son catching it are, and see how to recognize symptoms of menigitis.
post #6 of 9
Quote:
Originally Posted by NYMOM07 View Post
If Hib is every where, then I would be worried about it, and really see what the chances of my son catching it are, and see how to recognize symptoms of menigitis.
Hib was everywhere when we were kids. AND- Meningitis has not gone down because of that vax.

-Angela
post #7 of 9
I've never seen a pro-vax site that backs their statements up with research (like insidevax does). Even the CDC makes claims that their own research doesn't back up and you have to dig very diligently to find that research.

For example, 36,000 people die every year in the US due to the flu. This is all over the CDC site and many other news/pro-vax sites. It is rarely referenced. Insidevax is a great site because they dig deeper to find out the truth of these numbers saving us lots of research.

Also, have you read Stephanie Cave's book? I really liked that one.
post #8 of 9
Quote:
Originally Posted by alegna View Post
Hib was everywhere when we were kids. AND- Meningitis has not gone down because of that vax.

-Angela
I read somewhere (can't remember where) that Hib is pretty much wiped out in the US but that other HI types have replaced it. I remember a type A and I believe there was another type too. There's no vaccine for these other types. Can someone clarify this for me? Thanks.
post #9 of 9
Quote:
Originally Posted by Morgana View Post
I read somewhere (can't remember where) that Hib is pretty much wiped out in the US but that other HI types have replaced it. I remember a type A and I believe there was another type too. There's no vaccine for these other types. Can someone clarify this for me? Thanks.
This is an interesting read

http://www.wellwithin1.com/HibPneuBu...006letters.pdf

as is this

http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=574250
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