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So sad....letting her cry...

post #1 of 34
12/25/08 at 10:43pm
Thread Starter 
I just don't know what to do with DD anymore. I know that CIO is typically "off-limits" on MDC, but this is a special circumstance I think.

DD has been fighting sleep. Big-time. She gets a pretty heavy dose of seizure meds every night and I used to think that that is why she slept so well and now I'm not so sure. She used to just go right out when I gave her her meds. She gets 8.5 mls of phenobarb, 3 mls of keppra and 25 mg of topamax through her tube at bedtime and somehow she is staying awake! But she is soooo tired I can tell! Her eyes aren't even open, she just lays there and cries. It doesn't help a whole lot if I hold her and as soon as I try to put her down she cries even harder. And if I try to lay down next to her, she buries her head in the pillow and breathes really hard, like she's trying to smother herself or something (I know she's not going to because she's on oxygen and hooked up to a pulse-ox).

But if I just let her cry (it hurts me to even type this out ) she goes to sleep within 10 minutes.

Is this neurological or is she just acting like a 15 month old? My son always nursed to sleep so I have no idea how non-nursing little ones go to sleep.

I'm never out of earshot and I suction her if she starts to sound junky, but then I just have to walk away or she tries to stay awake again.
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post #2 of 34
12/25/08 at 10:50pm
I really don't know. I couldn't read and not you.
post #3 of 34
12/25/08 at 11:02pm
I dunno, but tonight DS was really fighting sleep even though he was tired. I was tired of him kicking and biting me and screaming bloody murder, so I put him in his crib while I went to collect myself. He fell asleep. Oh, the humility of it all...
post #4 of 34
12/25/08 at 11:06pm
No advice, but plenty of sympathy. We dealt with the sleep fighting and as we understood better as our child got older how significant the health cost is for him when he doesn't get sleep - it does make it clear to me how much the fighting sleep was costing him. Hope you find some kind of answer soon. That ten minutes is probably way worse for you than it is for her.
post #5 of 34
12/25/08 at 11:52pm
I don't think that CIO is the same with SN. Sid (who is 4) usually goes to sleep with no problems, but on nights like tonight when he has been really sensorally stimulated (goes with Christmas day), he cries at bed time. It certainly isn't that he wants to be up and doing things--quite the opposite. He's overwhelmed and crying is his way of dealing with it. If I were to go into his room (which I did when he first started sleeping in his own room) while he way crying, I would not be helping the situation. he would only push me away, literally. So he cries for awhile and then goes asleep. It is stressful for me as a parent, but there is little that I can do in the situation. During the day, we do all that we can to prevent a difficult transition to sleep (brushing, listening therapy, etc.), but some days, Sid may cry for 30 minutes before settling down to sleep. Thankfully, this is not the normal for him.

It sounds like you are handling your child's sleeping issues well. Not every AP "protocol" works with SN children.
post #6 of 34
12/25/08 at 11:59pm
It sounds like her crying is her stress reliever and transition to sleep. You know, sometimes we just need a good cry? It sounds like trying to comfort her may be giving her too much stimulation.
post #7 of 34
12/26/08 at 12:07am
I would agree with the over stimulation case here. 2 of my 3 kids need to "whine" down to "wind" down at nap time, and sometimes at night as well. Often just being in the room delays their falling asleep, but neither of them makes a distressed cry like they really want us. Just a whiny, "I'm done here" kind of noise. The third talks himself down, but that can take an hour, and he doesn't expect a non stop audience. We just pop in and out at intervals. It works for him.
post #8 of 34
12/26/08 at 1:01am
OP~ I can understand your hurt I think all the pp's have had some great advice. The collective thought here is that you're not letting her CIO.....you're giving her space because comforting her seems to be too much for her
I think that's the hard part. You want to comfort her. It seems so natural for our children to go to sleep on or with us. It causes us stress when we can't comfort our children and it sounds like that's what's going on here?

Only you know your child. Go with your gut...but don't feel guilty for 10 minutes of her crying. big
post #9 of 34
12/26/08 at 11:55am
Quote:
Originally Posted by fanniefarkle View Post
I don't think that CIO is the same with SN. Sid (who is 4) usually goes to sleep with no problems, but on nights like tonight when he has been really sensorally stimulated
:
Especially my kids with sensory issues, if they are overwhelmed, me trying to help is like restarting a 'clock' that they have in their bodies. They are working through their issues, and then I come in and add MORE in terms of touching or talking or just being there.

It's hard, especially since I've had babies who LOVED to be held and rocked, and I have children who canNOT be touched sometimes. But AP is about meeting your child's needs, not just the principle. s
post #10 of 34
12/26/08 at 11:57am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Multimomma View Post
:
AP is about meeting your child's needs, not just the principle. s
SO TRUE!!
post #11 of 34
12/28/08 at 1:31am
Please keep in mind, any posts advocating CIO will be removed per the User Agreement:

Quote:
Mothering.com is the website of natural family living and advocates natural solutions to parenting challenges. We host discussion of nighttime parenting, loving discipline, natural birth, homebirth, successful breastfeeding, alternative and complementary home remedies, informed consent, and many other topics from a natural point of view. We are not interested, however, in hosting discussions on the merits of crying it out ...
This discussion may take place as long as one is discussing medical problems, medication side-effects, and sensory reasons for kids having trouble falling asleep...and how to parent them at night through these difficult situations.

Furthermore, our forum guidelines state:

Quote:
Parenting the special needs child comes with many rewards and challenges that are unique to each family. This forum is a place to discuss these issues with like-minded members....

Please join us in supporting parents of special needs children as they work together to deal with everyday issues and parenting while practicing Natural Family Living.
This article in Mothering Magazine *may* have some helpful ideas you haven't tried.

If you are unsure if your comments fit within these guidelines, please PM a forum moderator with your questions.
post #12 of 34
12/28/08 at 1:33am
Quote:
Originally Posted by bandgeek View Post
I just don't know what to do with DD anymore. I know that CIO is typically "off-limits" on MDC, but this is a special circumstance I think.

DD has been fighting sleep. Big-time. She gets a pretty heavy dose of seizure meds every night and I used to think that that is why she slept so well and now I'm not so sure. She used to just go right out when I gave her her meds. She gets 8.5 mls of phenobarb, 3 mls of keppra and 25 mg of topamax through her tube at bedtime and somehow she is staying awake! But she is soooo tired I can tell! Her eyes aren't even open, she just lays there and cries. It doesn't help a whole lot if I hold her and as soon as I try to put her down she cries even harder. And if I try to lay down next to her, she buries her head in the pillow and breathes really hard, like she's trying to smother herself or something (I know she's not going to because she's on oxygen and hooked up to a pulse-ox).

But if I just let her cry (it hurts me to even type this out ) she goes to sleep within 10 minutes.

Is this neurological or is she just acting like a 15 month old? My son always nursed to sleep so I have no idea how non-nursing little ones go to sleep.

I'm never out of earshot and I suction her if she starts to sound junky, but then I just have to walk away or she tries to stay awake again.
What is CIO?
post #13 of 34
12/28/08 at 1:44am
Quote:
Originally Posted by SuzanneDeAz View Post
What is CIO?
Cry it out. Leaving a child alone to cry themself to sleep.
MDC has a very easy to use FAQ section with all the abbreviations listed.
http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=522590
hope that helps!

To the OP-
post #14 of 34
12/28/08 at 3:00am
Oh, poor little baby girl!!

It may be the transition for her. My so-far-typical 13 mo old cries if I'm not w/ him at nap time. Dh holds him, but if his usual comfort isn't there (nursing) he cries. He doesn't know what to do w/ himself.

If I AM w/ him and he's overstimulated he won't go to sleep. He'll get up and play or crawl on the bed. I have to pretend to be asleep and even that may not work. lol My big ones were the same way. (Oldest has Asperger's and 2nd has anxiety & SPD.)

So, part of it sounds normal. Part of it sounds SN.
post #15 of 34
12/28/08 at 3:57am
Many hugs.

I don't think that is CIO. Sensory kids/SN often calm themselves and deal with transition and frustration differently. Many cry or whine (mine included). There is a big difference between leaving a child in hysterics and just letting them cry and letting a child cry who uses it as a way to self calm and transition. Some kids need to be allowed to cry because its what helps them reset and focus. Crying can be as much of a self-calming-stim as rocking or tapping. I just think you need to know your child and what works for them and which it is. IMO, there is a HUGE difference.
post #16 of 34
12/28/08 at 2:18pm
Thread Starter 
Update:

It does seem to be sensory related. I hadn't really thought about that. But the couple of days she cried like that we had had a busy day with a lot going on, lots of noise, ect. Then we had a really calm day, no TV or music, no car rides, bedtime went smoothly and there was NO crying.

Also, the night I posted this, we had been listening to a concert on DVD and it was turned up kind of loud (not blaring, just louder than we'd have a sitcom) and she freaked out about 3/4 of the way through it. I knew that was sensory related, but I didn't realize it might affect her several hours later.

Now, obviously I can't just block out life to prevent her crying at night, but at least I can kind of relate if she has a night like that. I have some sensory issues too and while I don't cry to wind down (anymore...I used to as a kid) I know how completely *agitated* I get and how I have to be left alone to work through it. The thing is...she cries *less* if I just leave her alone. It's just SO hard for me to hear her, even though it's not very long.
post #17 of 34
12/28/08 at 2:43pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by bandgeek View Post
Now, obviously I can't just block out life to prevent her crying at night, but at least I can kind of relate if she has a night like that. I have some sensory issues too and while I don't cry to wind down (anymore...I used to as a kid) I know how completely *agitated* I get and how I have to be left alone to work through it. The thing is...she cries *less* if I just leave her alone. It's just SO hard for me to hear her, even though it's not very long.
While you can't block out life, I do think it is worth looking at patterns of what bothers her and ask if it is really necessary or if the difficult kinds of stimulation can be earlier in the day. Obviously she needs life experience but with more awareness of the patterns, it help eliminate some of the evening difficulty. It might also be helpful to think what kind of wind down activities may be comforting for her. A few things that helped our son: use of a white noise machine, swaddling in the sling or blankets - when he got older a weighted blanket, rocking, very quiet saying "ssshhh, ssshh".
post #18 of 34
12/28/08 at 2:52pm
Thread Starter 
I'm going to try and make her a weighted blanket once I get the cash for some fabric and filler.

Her oxygen concentrator is her white noise.

I usually try to sing to her or just do the shushing thing. Sometimes that works and sometimes it just pisses her off.
post #19 of 34
12/28/08 at 4:26pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by theretohere View Post
Cry it out. Leaving a child alone to cry themself to sleep.
MDC has a very easy to use FAQ section with all the abbreviations listed.
http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=522590
hope that helps!

To the OP-
Thanks I will use that for future refenrence. I noted on some posts I just stopped reading as it had too many abbreviations that it was very confusing.:
post #20 of 34
12/29/08 at 4:35am
I know it is sad. You are clearly coming from a place of looking at works best for her overall wellbeing and observing her with love and honesty. That's not CIO, so don't heap any guilt on yourself on that score.

I hope you can find a way to calmer days.
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