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Yet Another Possibly Twins Post UPDATE post #34 w/ us video

post #1 of 51
Thread Starter 
Hi all,
I know you are well-worn on these posts, so please accept my apologies for adding to the mountain. I also know it helps so much to be able to "talk" about what's going on and to be heard by those who understand. I know you can't give me an answer, but I do know you can give me support and a listening ear. And if I do happen to be one of the very few who come out of this with two healthy babies, I'll be here with you a lot! I have two weeks until my early ultrasound at 6.5 weeks, when we will be looking specifically for a headcount. I know it will be a challenging two weeks for me!

Some of you may recognize my username from a while ago. I was wondering about twins during my last pregnancy (pg #4), for which I had no real clear indications, just a kind of suspicion. She was just one. So I've been burned by this before, and I'm definitely wary and wondering if I'm in fact crazy

Anyway, here goes. We started talking about adding another child to our family of 3 kids as a hypothetical. About a week into the conversation my fertility returned, surprisingly as I was only 9 months postpartum and breastfeeding 3 children! After much debate, we did decide to "open the door" and I began tracking my basal body temps. The day I started to ovulate, with clear feelings from my ovary, my grandmother died. I was under a lot of stress the next four days, and my ovulation was delayed. I felt it gearing up and down each day and it was really quite frustrating and a little painful! Finally, on the day of her absolutely magical funeral service and my 30th birthday, I ovulated. The next day my temp shot up. I had felt ovulation pains on both sides, but thought little of it. Then 7 days later my temps went up again into a triphasic pattern, which has never happened to me. I felt my ovaries pulsing back and forth rhythmically that day, definitely both of them were secreting progesterone from separate corpus luteums. On 13dpo I got a BFP, a blood draw, and felt my ovaries do a similar tango back and forth. My temps shot up again after that. My blood work showed:

13dpo hCG: 146, prog: 24.5
15dpo hCG: 482, prog: 20.5
doubling time: 27 hours

Now I expected my progesterone to be higher than that with two corpus luteums (lutea?), but from my research I've found that progesterone levels vary widely throughout the day and so a single draw is only marginally useful as a snapshot (as in it could be 15+ pts higher at another point in the day, or lower). I am pretty convinced that my body managed to ovulate from both sides, although I know that does not necessarily mean there are two healthy babies in there. The hCG numbers do line up much more nicely with the twin pregnancies at www.betabase.info, with 86% of single pregnancies at 13dpo having lower numbers, and 96% of single pregnancies at 15dpo having lower numbers, but I know I could be out of the norm. But that paired with the near certainty of dual ovulation does have me imagining seeing that ultrasound screen in two weeks with two sacs looking back at me. The irony would be that we always said we would have 5 kids before having our first, then backed off to 3, and then to 4.

I do believe strongly in reincarnation, and so I believe that whoever is with me has been drawn here by the pull of their energies to our family. And if there are two, that is beyond me to question, as is the case if there is one, or if no one stays around. Basically, it's none of my business! I can't be attached because what is happening is part of the path of that person's life. Does that make sense? I may be babbling now. I am so swimming in hormones.

Just for reference, I'm a medical researcher who spent a year in med school and I LOVE learning about this process, so I do get caught up in all the details even though at the basic level I am trusting of the bigger picture.

So am I totally wacko? Maybe! Only time will tell. I very much want the quick peak via ultrasound because it's important to me to know for certain if two lives visited me, to give myself permission to mourn if one should leave. I'm not okay with just seeing who pops out later, or relying only on my intuition side to tell me. Besides, the ultrasound will also be able to tell me for sure if I have a corpus luteum on both sides! I think that's the thing that's most itching at me, because it involves a message my body is giving me and I want validation for that interpretation. Whoever is there is a celebration regardless, and while I know it would be incredibly challenging, I also know we have are very fortunate to have a lot of support and we'd be okay managing twins.

Sigh. Sorry for the novel! I will come back and keep you posted. My ultrasound is 1/12. Your opinions, support, and general chattiness is most welcome.
post #2 of 51
A big congrats on your new bean! Happy healthy 9 months to you! As you probably already know, betas really tell you nothing. The range of normal is exactly the same for singletons and for twins, although twins on average tend to be higher. Anything is possible but only an ultrasound will tell for sure. I wish you luck whatever the outcome!
post #3 of 51
Cool story! Thanks for all the background about the personal situation (sorry for your loss of your grandmother). I will definitely watch your thread for the results and will think of you over the next couple of weeks. :
post #4 of 51
Thread Starter 
Thanks, Lucia & Novella. I appreciate just the effort you took to read that essay! I'm wondering if anyone has felt anything like this both-sided corpus luteum thing before, or heard of anyone who had it? Maybe one of the hundreds of women in early pregnancy who suspect twins? I've yet to find a single person in all my looking who's talked about this . . . both sides ovulatory pains, yes, but not in the 2ww.
post #5 of 51
Can't help you on the CL pain thing as I haven't experienced it on both sides (although I did feel it on one side last cycle, I think I had a cyst Ouch!)
post #6 of 51
I think I ovulated from both sides as well, I remember feeling pains on one side, then the other, and it was the most painful ovulation I've had! I usually barely even notice it, but this was bad enough for me to take Tylenol and go to bed.
post #7 of 51
Thread Starter 
Hi Jayme,
Thank you for sharing that. Now that you mention it, I remember in addition to the back and forth each day sensations for 4 days, in the evening of my birthday (at my fancy birthday dinner with Dh!) I was in such pain I couldn't believe it! It was more general-crampy than focused in my ovaries, but it was so INTENSE, far more than any ovulation pain I've ever felt or even heard of. I definitely could have taken something for it. I thought I might be about to start AF, strangely. Then my temps shot up and I felt nothing else from down there until 6dpo when the corpus luteum tango started . . .

T-minus 13 days until ultrasound! I'm debating whether or not I should go ahead with a trip to NYC for the weekend before (Thurs-Sun). Could be very distracting, but I also might be a mess the whole time! What would you do to keep yourself sane? I like baths and deep breathing.
post #8 of 51
I do not remember feeling double ovulation but I did have fertility signs on two different days, four days apart. In fact, that's how we caught both eggs! I thought we were 3 days past O and safe to have sex and woke the next morning to fresh egg white!

I suspected twins in pregnancies 3 and 4 so I can relate to the feeling crazy! Actually, I'm not convinced that we didn't have two in my fourth pregnancy but no u/s until 24 weeks. I think perhaps she had a vanishing twin. When I got pregnant this time and felt strongly I was having twins I kept talking myself out of it! I'd already suspected it twice before and came out with ONE baby in the end. I think, somehow, I've always known I was going to have two.
post #9 of 51
Thread Starter 
Hi Chantel,
Thank you for coming by and sharing your experience - that is really so helpful to hear you walked a similar path, especially about thinking there were twins and there weren't. I think you may be right about your intuition. And, given that "we" know that around 1 in 8 pregnancies begin as twins, it's not all that unreasonable. It sounds like you had the other kind of double ovulation, which occurs when a second egg is allowed to release a little later on in the same cycle. The super-intense-crampy-kind all at once I think is when both release at once. I imagine my fallopian tubes and then uterus all had a brief freak out in response! I was thinking mine may have been like you're describing, but now that I reflect on it more and hear more of others' experiences, I think I fall into the "gearing up and down for days, then BAM releasing them all" category. Maybe that's more likely to happen for those who aren't necessarily hereditarily releasing two eggs per cycle? It does mean I know pretty exactly to the minute when I conceived, though, which puts my blood draws at 12dpo and 14dpo instead of 13dpo and 15dpo. Now THAT'S interesting!

I am going to NYC, I decided. That will be excellent distraction before the ultrasound and it's been something I've wanted to do for the last 6 months. Now to figure out the car seat situation for my 10 month old . . . cabs or subway? Anyone?
post #10 of 51
I felt myself ovulate from both sides the cycle I conceived my twins. I was also taking clomid at the time, so I knew that there was a good chance of double ovulation. When I felt the ovulation pain on both sides, I was sure that we'd have twins.

My beta at 14 dpo was 405, and for me that was proof enough that I was pregnant with two babies. But we didn't get confirmation until the 6 week u/s.

Good luck to you if you do have twins! I can't imagine having twins be #4 and #5 (with a one-year-old to boot! .

post #11 of 51
Thread Starter 
Hi lexbeach,
Wow, now THAT'S interesting Your beta of 405 at 14dpo is pretty close to my 482 on 14.5dpo (that's what I'm calling it now since I know to the minute when I ovulated and my blood work was in the morning whereas my ovulation was in the evening). I've been thinking that as far as interpretation of beta numbers I'm much more like the women who've done infertility treatments since:

a) I know for certain the day/hour I ovulated
b) I know for certain that at least two eggs released

And my reading from their experiences confirms what you just said - that a beta number like mine, doubling so quickly, is a very clear indicator that more than one at least started out vigorously.

So how did you survive the wait until the ultrasound? Were you pretty calm about it since you just knew? I guess maybe I'll settle into the idea and get some peace about it. Some days are better than others. I just can't wait to see that screen and breathe a huge sigh. Whatever their health, which of course I hope is good, I just want to see them and confirm this.
post #12 of 51
I think I was a little oddly calm about it all, though I'm sure I was counting down the days as well! I remember catching myself telling a stranger that I was pregnant with twins, and then realizing, "what if I'm NOT?"

When it came time for the u/s, at first only one baby appeared on the screen. I said, "where's the other one?!" and the u/s tech moved the wand, and the second baby appeared.

My twins are--at this moment--fighting over the last banana in the house, and I'm having a hard time remembering how it felt to be so excited about having twins. But I know that I was very happy to be having twins at the time!


ETA: my betas for my second pregnancy were also solidly in the twin range (237 at 13 dpo, 1037 at 16 dpo), but I was only pregnant with one baby. Again, I suspected twins, but not nearly as strongly as I had the first time. I was only mildly surprised when the 6 week u/s revealed just one baby even though I know I ovulated two eggs (due to pre-O u/s . . . no ovulation pain at all that time around) and I had all the same symptoms as with my twin pregnancy. It was also different the second time since I was terrified of having twins again, whereas they were quite welcome the first time.
post #13 of 51
Thread Starter 
BTW, I'm sure the reality of how challenging having twins actually *in* our daily lives would hit me after the ultrasound shows them (if that does happen). For now I'm trying to have just one freak out at a time! I am very fortunate that I have an unusually strong support system. My Dh is an excellent SAHD, I work from home 50% of the time, my mother is retired and would live with us to help, and I live in cohousing where I have 60 neighbors willing to do whatever they can to help. I know we would be okay. And, although I know it's not the same thing, we did juggle a 12 month old exclusively nursing toddler and a newborn at the same time and we survived that. Their relationship is a beautiful thing and it was well worth the intensity of that first year, IMO.

Now, I do realize that having twin newborns after a possibly complicated birth along with an 18 month old and our 5 and 4 year olds would be somethin' else. My intention to allow the kids to self-wean may be shifted a bit to a cut-off for the older two by the end of the pregnancy . . . among other changes!
post #14 of 51
Thread Starter 
Hey Lexbeach,
We crossed posts. Interesting about the second pregnancy. Did you see a corpus luteum cyst on both ovaries for both pregnancies at the 6 week ultrasounds? I wonder if the other egg you saw developing pre-o actually never ovulated? Or maybe there's something to having the sensation of it that is important to the health of both eggs? So maybe the other embryo was already gone by the ultrasound? Makes you go hmmm. Did you have an ovulation pain for that cycle at all? Maybe it happened a day or so ahead and that explains the higher betas?

I can't help but ponder these things through. I'm a pregnancy detective
post #15 of 51
We use donor sperm and intrauterine insemination (IUI) to conceive (hence the pre-O u/s for timing purposes). Both of the follicles were in one ovary the second time, and I'm fairly confident that they both released eggs since I had an HCG trigger shot to make me ovulate. I'm sure about the timing of the betas being 13 dpo and 16 dpo. I don't think there was a vanishing twin . . . but I guess I'll never really know .

I was totally obsessive about it all at the time too!

post #16 of 51
You can do it. Sans complicated birth, I had twins with a 1 year old, 3 year old, 4 year old, and 6 year old hanging around. Crazy and chaotic, but totally doable!
post #17 of 51
Originally Posted by Intertwined View Post
I do not remember feeling double ovulation but I did have fertility signs on two different days, four days apart. In fact, that's how we caught both eggs! I thought we were 3 days past O and safe to have sex and woke the next morning to fresh egg white!

I suspected twins in pregnancies 3 and 4 so I can relate to the feeling crazy! Actually, I'm not convinced that we didn't have two in my fourth pregnancy but no u/s until 24 weeks. I think perhaps she had a vanishing twin. When I got pregnant this time and felt strongly I was having twins I kept talking myself out of it! I'd already suspected it twice before and came out with ONE baby in the end. I think, somehow, I've always known I was going to have two.
You know, this is almost me and DH exactly. I think my second child might have been a twin, as by my charts I conceived him AFTER O was already gone (unless there was more than one...).

And this time around, we didn't have ultrasound, but we just "knew", though we ignored that feeling due to the "facts" until they surprised us at the birth....

Anyway, when we made these little guys, my DH says to me in the middle of it, "Gee, you seem unusually into it right now" since after O'ing I'm usually not, and I was a tad worried, but afterwards, next morning, Yeah....I was definitely thinking there was going to be a baby! That two week wait I knew wasn't going to be two weeks, more like 8 1/2 months!

post #18 of 51
Thread Starter 
Interesting you guys! So for those of you who had two different days of high fertility/ovulation signs, do you also have family history of fraternal twins? I'm just wondering if there's support for my theory about the genetic disposition for double ovulation versus the increased chances with older age, stress during ovulation, breastfeeding, ovulating after miscarriage, etc.
post #19 of 51
My twins are all MZ so I can't speak to the double ovulation. But I can tell you that I had a very strong feeling that I was having twins the second time and I was right! I also suspected it in my second pregnancy (singleton) but never as strongly as I felt it with the twins.
post #20 of 51
My cousin said this week when I was home for a funeral that there were two sets somewhere back in my Mom's Dad's side of the family. None for a LONG time though. I think it had more to do with a "super ovulation" because this was my first O after I had my daughter. I was 8 months pp when I concieved the twins.
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