Is it always about the "stuff"?

[mamaofthree]

I have been very interested in the waldorf lifestyle for some time (wish I had found it when dd was a wee babe... 5 kids later, LOL). But I am finding instead of information about the ideas and what certain things mean or why certian things are done, it seems most of the conversation revovles around the "stuff" the toys, and dolls, and what have you.
Can we talk about what Waldorf is? ::

h

[aliceincolo]

I feel the same way you do. I get so frustrated sometimes because it seems to me that the quest for living enlightened, green, natural, eco-friendly, Waldorf-y lives gives far too much weight to the things that we can buy to help us on this journey. Instead, I think we need to focus more on the purpose for this journey, simplify life, see beauty all around, find learning all around.

[counterGOPI]

well said aliceincolo.
i think right now too its just that its the holidays so its a bit crazy with 'stuff' but it will die down soon i'm sure
for a lot of us too, we aren't near other waldorf families so this is the only place to ask questions on everything,including things like the 'stuff'
hth!

[Astrid1024]

I've found that if you look back into some of the earliest pages, it's much less about stuff and more about asking important questions. Perhaps that will help you as it helped me.

[LuxPerpetua]

From what I can tell, Waldorf is interpreted differently by just about everybody who practices it. If you came to visit me, my home does not scream, "yes, we Waldorf." We have no playstands and very few of the traditional Waldorf toys that I see on websites. We have some plastic, we have some metal, we have some synthetic fabrics (and no wool because I hate the texture) and we do not do wet-on-wet painting nor model beeswax at this point. However, we do have a focus on the rhythms of the year, celebrate seasonal festivals, are very low media, and seek to simplify our lives. We try to incorporate lots of stories and imaginative magic while still being truthful and realistic. I personally do not want dd thinking St. Nicholas actually brings her things or that fairies exist. I think Waldorf can definitely be "about the stuff" especially for people who are insecure in their parenting practices and want outside validation. But for everyone who is like that there is probably another mom like me who does not freak out about non-beeswax candles or synthetic fabrics with multiple textures rather than just silks. For us, Waldorf helps us meet our overall parenting goals of having a connected, peaceful family, but Waldorf is not an end in and of itself. We take what parts of Waldorf we like and ignore the rest. I'm currently reading "Heaven on Earth" and while there are some things that I think are too airy-fairy or just impractical, there are many things I agree with. It talks more about the importance of being mindful when selecting your child's toys (and limiting the amount) and how to encourage creative outdoor play with natural materials, etc., and nary a playstand was mentioned. If I ever feel that I'm being limited by Waldorf dogma, I let go. For me, Waldorf is about giving children emotional space to enjoy the imagination and energy of childhood and the peace of a life that is simple and connected to family and nature. I roll my eyes at anything that reeks of Anthroposophy or Waldorf consumerism. You can have Waldorf without the baggage, in my experience.

[Astrid1024]

Originally Posted by LuxPerpetua

For me, Waldorf is about giving children emotional space to enjoy the imagination and energy of childhood and the peace of a life that is simple and connected to family and nature.

Originally Posted by LuxPerpetua

You can have Waldorf without the baggage, in my experience.

Well said!!

[berrymama]

I often think about this as minimalism and simplicity of toys are some of the main things that lead to me Waldorf in the first place. I think it is sad that there is so much stuff marketed toward Waldorf. I often come back to Toymaking With Children if I am getting caught up in all the commercialism. It really lays out the basics as far as toys and play items and encourages making them yourself.

And DS is still very young, but all he really plays with are his push cart, blocks, stacking cups and kitchen utensils. What more does he really need?

[mamaUK]

Originally Posted by LuxPerpetua

I roll my eyes at anything that reeks of Anthroposophy or Waldorf consumerism. You can have Waldorf without the baggage, in my experience.

I was very interested in your reply, thank you for writing so thoughtfully. I am going to be 100 % honest here and say I have DEFINATELY been caught up with the waldorf consumerism and have actually been having internal struggles the past couple of days about why this has happened. I am new to the waldorf way of life ( i found out about it approx 8 months ago) and we have had alot of positive changes as a family as a whole. We spend more time as a family, we are now TV free aside from an hour at the weekend which has definately led to my LO playing a lot more creatively and I also have great quality time with my LO, being outside, cooking, story time, bedtime blessing etc. We are also taking more notice of seasons/festivals too. But I have definately been swept along with the perceived notions of what should/ shoudn't be in a Waldorf home and which isn't what a Waldorf way of life is about....it doesn't matter if you have a rainbow stacking toy or not. I am very embarassed to say that I got caught up very badly in the Waldorf consumerism (and wow is it expensive!) and seemed to be checking off some sort of Waldorf toy check list. Wow, can't believe I'm admitting it but I just wanted to be honest here. Has any one else fallen into this trap by accident? And am I really stupid to have done it???

Saying that I am looking for a nice wooden stroller for my little girls doll from a UK website............ LOL

[mamaofthree]

No you are not. I fell in love with the beautiful, simple stuff too. I just want to go deeper then a doll and silks. I want to know why certian things are done. What is the reasoning behind it all.
I hope I didn't come off sounding snotty. I was just a bit frustrated when I came here to find out some answers and I couldn't find anything (I didn't go back to the first pages... I will).
Just so many threads on toys and things and not enough on substance. LOL

Thank you for your honesty and every ones replys.

h

[aliceincolo]

Saying that I am looking for a nice wooden stroller for my little girls doll from a UK website............ LOL[/QUOTE]

Look at IKEA they have a very reasonable wooden stroller. For a fraction of the cost...

[berrymama]

Originally Posted by mamaofthree

No you are not. I fell in love with the beautiful, simple stuff too. I just want to go deeper then a doll and silks. I want to know why certian things are done. What is the reasoning behind it all.
I hope I didn't come off sounding snotty. I was just a bit frustrated when I came here to find out some answers and I couldn't find anything (I didn't go back to the first pages... I will).
Just so many threads on toys and things and not enough on substance. LOL

Thank you for your honesty and every ones replys.

h

You might want to check out the book recommendation thread. I think that many on this board have read at least the basic books about Waldorf, and so there are not a whole lot of threads explaining the 'whys' that are covered in the books. Not that there couldn't be...that is what I come here to read mostly. I like the discussions about the 'whys' and seeing how everyone practices Waldorf a little differently.

ETA: Not that you HAVE to buy a bunch of books either...ha ha ha

[LenasMommy]

Originally Posted by LuxPerpetua

I think Waldorf can definitely be "about the stuff" especially for people who are insecure in their parenting practices and want outside validation.

I was wondering where you got this from? Maybe I am just taking it wrong, but it seems like you're saying any Waldorf parent that wants the nice figures and wants a playstand for their children (and themselves too, those things are beautiful!) that they must be insecure about their own parenting.. Just seems a little unfair to me. I am not saying that Waldorf isn't all about the stuff, because for the most part, it generally seems to be. But I think there are people here who are genuinely interested in the deeper parts of Waldorf.

For myself, I know I am guilty of wanting the stuff. Mostly because it's beautiful, safer than plastic, and it makes me and my DD happy! I feel like I am making a good investment in these things. However, I also study the deeper parts of Waldorf every day. I want to be a Waldorf teacher. So I think it is possible to have an "addiction" to the stuff, but also really know and respect Waldorf. Maybe I am rambling, but I just had to comment because the statement didn't feel right to me. I hope I'm not stepping on any toes. I just wanted to throw how I felt out there.

Thanks

[Astrid1024]

Originally Posted by LenasMommy

I was wondering where you got this from? Maybe I am just taking it wrong, but it seems like you're saying any Waldorf parent that wants the nice figures and wants a playstand for their children (and themselves too, those things are beautiful!) that they must be insecure about their own parenting.

I think what LuxPerpetua is saying is that some people may want the nice things as a compensation, not that all parents who want those things are insecure in their parenting.

[Hannahsmummy]

I have often been tempted to start a post entitled "Waldorf isn't about the toys!!" but I haven't.

I feel your frustration, it's not about the toys. Although the toys most certainly are beautiful and I really understand the desire for them and appreciate the value in them.

My daughter is 5 and a half and we been involved in our school for almost 3 years now. Though our lifestyle has always been Waldorfy, it was just how we lived already.

For me it is about respecting my daughter's childhood and stages in life and letting her growth (spiritually, emotionally and physically) happen naturally and as they should.
It is important that her education is supportive of her as a whole human being and not a test number. She needs rhythm and structure in her day and support in a family way with the room to learn through example. This is all provided for in her kindergarten.

Waldorf philosophies are very much in line with the way I parent already so it has been a natural fit for us. I really agree with the idea of parenting by example and not directing children in play to a great extent.

I don't want my daughter exposed to media at this age and she hasn't been. For us it's all about letting her be a child. That's not to say that Waldorf is child led, I don't believe it is and many (I think) mistakenly do believe that.
there is a huge amount of guidance for children in Waldorf, in my experience.

We don't have much in the way of plastic toys, we have some that were gifted (lego and the like) which is fine with me. We don't have electronic toys or anything like that BUT we also have little in the way of "Waldorf" toys per se. We do not have playstands, there's no space for them, we don't have many expensive toys at all in fact. We have a lot that's home,handmade and lots of natural alternatives that don't cost masses of money. It really is more about how you live rather than what you own.

[LuxPerpetua]

Originally Posted by mamaofthree

No you are not. I fell in love with the beautiful, simple stuff too. I just want to go deeper then a doll and silks. I want to know why certian things are done. What is the reasoning behind it all.
I hope I didn't come off sounding snotty. I was just a bit frustrated when I came here to find out some answers and I couldn't find anything (I didn't go back to the first pages... I will).
Just so many threads on toys and things and not enough on substance. LOL

Thank you for your honesty and every ones replys.

h

If you want to know why things are done, I ditto checking out the booklist. However, even beyond what they say in books you need to have an understanding of Rudolph Steiner and Anthroposophy to see what you do and do not agree with because that is the basis of Waldorf. In my humble opinion, some of his ideas were good and some were way wacky but most of the effects can still be positive effect even if you do not buy into his spiritual theories. However, I do not agree with everything Steiner came up with so we pick and choose and focus on the overall goals of peace, rhythm, and creativity because that is what works well for us. A lot of what is on the net is negative toward Waldorf (so caveat emptor), but that's not necessarily a bad thing because it lets you understand all sides. A lot of the books I've read talk just on the surface about Steiner (probably because he was so controversial) and more about how to put Waldorf ideas into practice. For the real theory I've had to look into Steiner and Anthroposophy. It just depends on how deep you want to go.

[LuxPerpetua]

Originally Posted by LenasMommy

I was wondering where you got this from? Maybe I am just taking it wrong, but it seems like you're saying any Waldorf parent that wants the nice figures and wants a playstand for their children (and themselves too, those things are beautiful!) that they must be insecure about their own parenting.. Just seems a little unfair to me.

Originally Posted by sarah.astrid

I think what LuxPerpetua is saying is that some people may want the nice things as a compensation, not that all parents who want those things are insecure in their parenting.

Thank you, Sarah. That is exactly what I meant.

[counterGOPI]

lenasmommy i agree with you.
id prefer to make everything for the girls for myself but admit i don't have the time (since im allready always knitting,sewing and crafting for them) so we buy them things.
for my family personally ( and i mean just my family,no one elses b/c we all d owhat fits our own families best) i try to follow all the 'rules' of waldorf to a T and do not mix and match or only take things i like from it. i don't feel it would work for us otherwise. so we have the nicer handmade things in our home instead of plastic ect. b/c part of waldorf is to surround them with these natural handmade things and not artificial things like plastic. there are reasons for everything behind all that steiner says,kwim?
but again please understand this is just for my family!!! i'm not saying everyone should be this way. it's just how we do it :

[LenasMommy]

counterGOPI,

I completely agree with you. That is one of my problems as well in regards to making my own toys. I'm a single mom and I do as much as I can. But there is something about natural toys that brings a sense of calm into our home. I'm not talking about being worried about plastic toys. It's just that these items are so delicately made that the love that was put into that item comes out through the home (as corny as that sounds). Even when it comes to buying the "Waldorf" toys, those items are also carefully made. It doesn't just bring joy to my DD, it brings joy to me as well.

[counterGOPI]

exactly! its not only about being for our kids but the energy they give off to the entire house.

[um_hanna]

Originally Posted by LuxPerpetua

or that fairies exist.

yes they do: