not having idle hands and not being your child's play friend vs. not giving your child enough...

[counterGOPI]

i struggle with this in my head all the time. i am very fortunate to have a best friend who was a waldorf kindi teacher to help me out with a lot of things (sadly she's moving in less than a month though ) and she mentioned how in school the teacher is always doing some kind of hand work and if anyone visits the clas they have to be doing handwork as well. they can not just sit there b/c it interupts the children's play. this makes sense to me 100% and i try to never have idle hands around my girls. a lot of times now i sit in my rocking chair and knit while they play. which i enjoy but then i get nervous i'm not interacting enough. how exactly am i supossed to be interacting when they are playing? whats a good balance? what should i make sure i am doing to balance everything? im just afraid i would take things to the extreme or something i'm probably just being paranoid

tia!! ::

[jkg]

I'm so glad you asked this question, I think about it all the time too. Not even necessarily from a strictly Waldorf perspective, but I often wonder if I am interacting too much or too little and disturbing the natural flow of their play. Looking forward to seeing what others have to say...

[LuxPerpetua]

I always feel I should preface my responses here with the fact that I am a Waldorfish unschooler because I tend to be far more child-led than most parents on this board, I think.

DD (age 3) is an only and from birth has required a huge amount of verbal and physical interaction--far more than any baby or child I have ever known. At age 3 she will not play independently (and she has no siblings) so I interact with her in her play quite a bit. I know the traditional Waldorf stance on this, but it makes very little sense to me in our circumstances. What I try to do is devote blocks of time for us to play together (and when we play I try to be very attentive to letting her lead play) and then time to work together. She helps me cook, clean, do laundry, wash dishes, etc. If I ever try to do any sort of work while she's wanting to play it will distract her and she'll just want to do what I'm doing, so we have to consciously have clear-cut rhythms for both work and play. I think if you follow your instincts and listen to your heart you will find the right balance: If you feel that you need to interact more, then you probably do; if you feel that you are overdoing it, you probably are, etc. I tend to view Waldorf principles as a suggestion, though, so that colors my thinking.

I personally believe that doing Waldorf in a school setting and doing Waldorf in a home setting are two different cups of tea and that what works well in one does not work as well necessarily in the other. In a classroom setting with a handful of children who are not in their "native" environments nor with their primary caretakers, the dynamic is just totally different, so I wouldn't let what your teacher friend does lead you away from what your heart is telling you.

[sarahloughmiller]

I think to some extent it does depend on your kids and their ages and how many you have. Yours probably do not really play together yet so Lini might want more of you. I have 3 that all play together and I don't really ever play with them. I am mostly doing things around the house and they are kind of in and out of that. They come and ask me things and need help now and then with something and very occasionally want to help me but for the most part they rotate around the house and outside playing together. It is pretty rare for me to sit down and play with them, sometimes I will get them started on something if they are just fighting (like I will get out the blocks and start building and then leave and let them continue together) but overall I try to stay out of it.

I agree that doing Waldorf at home and in a school are very, very different. It is just not the same when you just have your kids at home, no helper, no prep time (unless you do it at night after they go to bed which I can never get myself to do), etc.

I would say you are just being paranoid and you need to just not worry about it and do what feels right

[dillonandmarasmom]

Originally Posted by sarahloughmiller

I think to some extent it does depend on your kids and their ages and how many you have. Yours probably do not really play together yet so Lini might want more of you. I have 3 that all play together and I don't really ever play with them. I am mostly doing things around the house and they are kind of in and out of that. They come and ask me things and need help now and then with something and very occasionally want to help me but for the most part they rotate around the house and outside playing together. It is pretty rare for me to sit down and play with them, sometimes I will get them started on something if they are just fighting (like I will get out the blocks and start building and then leave and let them continue together) but overall I try to stay out of it.

We are unschoolers with a touch of Waldorf (and Montessori) mixed in. This post sounds remarkably like my home. I spend most of my time doing work around the house, in the garden, or knitting. I occasionally start drawing/painting/crafting, which usually lures them in, but I don't really say, "Hey, guys, time to do this..."

I think if the kids are enjoying themselves and seem at peace (not arguing, sitting around moping), then all is just fine.

[kananaskismama]

I think about this too. I find though that DD and DS play so much better when I am knitting something or if I am sewing by hand. There are many things that must be done during the day like dishes and laundry and they will generally entertain themselves while I am doing this. They will often pretend they are washing dishes in the salad spinner or throw a bunch of laundry (usually diaper inserts) into their shopping cart and then race around the house.

When I sit down on the couch because I am exhausted that is when the fighting between them starts or they will climb on top of me and try to get me to do something, anything. They don't like me to sit still and observe or sleep. And they tolerate it if I am reading but will still interrupt more often.

There are plenty of times when I roll around on the floor with them or dance to some music or sit at the piano with them but if I want them to play imaginatively - they won't do it as readily if I am directly involved. They would rather attack me and fight over who gets to sit on my lap. This is not to say that I don't build towers will them or crash blocks. I do and they will often invite me to have tea at their picnic. I'm still interacting with them while I knit away.

Since DH is home for the holidays our days are very off kilter and DD and DS have been out of sorts - even acting wild and getting into all sorts of trouble (which they are not usually doing). We finally took them outside this morning to walk in the snow and they calmed down.

On another note DH will sit up on the couch and watch them play (on the weekend) and comment on their play. Then they are conscious of what they are doing and will stop. I tell DH to do his own thing and even read if he wants because they will be more likely to play then.

I do feel guilty though too at times. My mom never played with me when I was little but I remember my dad horsing around, reading to me or taking us outside to cross country ski.

I think the main thing for us is that we are all in the same room together enjoying things we do (even if it is me doing housework) and getting work done while taking time for breaks.

[counterGOPI]

thank you everyone! sarah :0 tee hee.

I do feel guilty though too at times. My mom never played with me when I was little but I remember my dad horsing around, reading to me or taking us outside to cross country ski.

thank you for posting that. i fear this b/c my dh doesnt really follow all things waldorf so he plays with dd all.the.time so im afraid she'll see it as daddy always played with me but mama didn't kwim?

[weliveintheforest]

You may not play with her all the time, but you are always there, and not just in the house, but paying attention and availble to them if they need you. Which I believe is what is important, and will be remembered.

[sarahloughmiller]

father/child relationships and mother/child relationships are just different and I think that is ok and we should not feel bad for it. My dh has always actively played with the kids whenever he is home and just recently has started trying not to all the time. He was getting really frustrated that he could never get anything else done, all he did was play. I had to take the kids away from the house for him to do anything at all. Dads are often the fun ones and mothers the more nurturing/caretaking ones. We have a lot of other things to get done during the day but dads get home and can spend time just playing while we cook dinner and clean up. While our kids may not look back on their childhood and remember us playing all the time with them they will look back positively and see we were always there when they needed us and see that we created a happy, peaceful home for them to grow in.

[catballou24]

i agree with you sarah..

[PabloHoneySF]

Originally Posted by sarahloughmiller

father/child relationships and mother/child relationships are just different and I think that is ok and we should not feel bad for it. My dh has always actively played with the kids whenever he is home and just recently has started trying not to all the time. He was getting really frustrated that he could never get anything else done, all he did was play. I had to take the kids away from the house for him to do anything at all. Dads are often the fun ones and mothers the more nurturing/caretaking ones. We have a lot of other things to get done during the day but dads get home and can spend time just playing while we cook dinner and clean up. While our kids may not look back on their childhood and remember us playing all the time with them they will look back positively and see we were always there when they needed us and see that we created a happy, peaceful home for them to grow in.

Very nicely put Sarah

DH just went back to work today after being home for 6 weeks with us and the new baby. I know the boys are going to have a rough time this afternoon when it fully hits them that their favorite giant playmate isn't around .

Nicole, I love that you can sit and knit with your girls playing. It paints such a pretty picture and I think your girls benefit not only from learning to play by themselves, but also by seeing mama doing something creative and for herself. My mom didn't have a lot of time to play with me, but some of my most vivid memories are of her sewing in her own "down" time and me happily playing with her thread spools or cutting up scraps for my own dolls... that's the kind of thing your girls are going to remember

[kananaskismama]

Originally Posted by counterGOPI

thank you for posting that. i fear this b/c my dh doesnt really follow all things waldorf so he plays with dd all.the.time so im afraid she'll see it as daddy always played with me but mama didn't kwim?

My Mom was a bit different than many moms and that is why I don't remember her playing with us or being around us as often. My Mom was working on volunteer efforts through much of our childhood - she has told me that she wanted to work and didn't want to be at home. We lived in the country though and played outdoors all of the time. We created elaborate teepees and forts in the forest and made mud pies and berry potion in the garden while my parents worked in the yard.

We also spent lots of time at my Nana's who sewed doll clothes, crocheted and knitted us blankets and even leg warmers, made apple dolls and Christmas ornaments for her craft sales while we played around her. I loved spending time with her watching her bake apple pies, make crabapple jelly, preserve pickles and shell peas. My brother watched her sew intently and now is an expert sewer. These are the kinds of nurturing maternal like memories that I hope to provide to my DD and DS.

I agree that Dads and Moms have different play relationships with their children too.

[counterGOPI]

thank you everyone. im feeling better.
marina- reading your description made me get all kinds of warm fuzzies inside. i never really thought about them noticing me knitting thank you fo that!