need advice, hungry newborn **another update**

[LoganBsMom]

Hey everyone. Just looking for a little guidance if anyone can help. Emilee was born on monday 12/29 : perfect! Really, she is perfect. But anyway, she is my second, my first was never ebf due to supply issues, various factors I think.

Emilee nursed about 20 minutes after she was born,(early evening) and latches on like a champ, does great. She is now close to 3 days old, and has been nursing every 1-2 hours since being born, with occasional runs of several hours where we stop nursing only for 10-15 minutes before she is ready again. I think my milk is starting to come in. She definatly gets milk, can see and hear it. Now, my issue is this. When she has these runs of constant nursing, she can not get satisfied. I know once she has been nursing for 4 hours she is not getting anything, I feel completly empty, but take her off and she roots like mad and screams bloody murder. I have given her a bottle now 4 times in the last 2 days, she only wants about 1/2 ounce or so before she is fine for another hour or two. I am thinking my supply will pick up, but until then I feel like I need to rely on the formula, she is starving! She has had plenty of poopy and wet diapers, and her weight dropped from 6#12 to 6#5 yesterday. I know formula can kill supply, but what else could I do. I know sometimes she is sucking just for comfort, and that is fine. Its the other times I am not sure what to do. She is a very slow nurser, takes her time, but seems to get the job done.

thanks

[kiara7]

Congratulations!!!

I'm sure some other mamas are more knowledgeable and you will get great advice. Personally, if milk has come in I would not supplement with formula. It can be very dangerous for supply and nipple preference. If she is having plenty of wet diapers, I wouldn't worry so much.
I think at such tender age, nursing is for food, a lot for comfort, being close to mama, etc. I know some mamas bf'ed non-stop for the first couple of weeks, but its not going to be like that all the time.

Good Luck!

Especially if she only takes 1/2 oz. from the bottle, she isn't starving, kwim?

[alegna]

You must drop the formula and bottles.

Nurse nurse nurse- that's what newborns do.

-Angela

[columbusmomma]

Ditto with what Angela said! Give her nothing but the breast!!

[blessedwithboys]

chuck the bottles and formula. you are doing fine!

[Love_My_Bubba]

Get in bed, snuggle under some warm covers, take off your shirt and let her nurse to her newborn heart's content. That's your only job right now, if you do this long enough your body will catch right on that you have a very hungry little girl!

Congratulations, you're at a magical time in life!

[LoganBsMom]

Thanks. I guess I just get nervous cause my first had so much trouble and such. I will continue on

[Love_My_Bubba]

Let us know if you need support!

[stgertrude]

Hi LoganB'smom. I just wanted to chime in and cheer you on with breastfeeding!! It really does sound like you are doing a great job! I read some of your previous posts and had similar experiences with low supply with my daughter. I hope to have another baby or two and am eagerly searching out stories of people who breastfeed a second baby successfully. I will be sending good thoughts your way! I also wanted to remind you to relax and have confidence in your body. I think in Western culture we sometimes are under such stress that our bodies cease to function correctly. I do think stress and anxiety in the very early post partum period with my daughter was a contributing factor to my irreversibly low supply the first time. I came across an interesting website in which a doctor from India discusses how important a mother's confidence and relaxation are in promoting healthy a let down in breastfeeding. She recommends several herbs which I plan to try next time I breastfeed.
http://www.gardenstew.com/blog/e3025...n-failure.html

Also, don't worry that your baby has lost weight. She is only three days old. Since you can hear her swallowing and your milk is coming in, it sounds like you are on the right track. Don't doubt yourself! You can do it!!

[ewe+lamb]

Get rid of the bottles and the formula if they are there you are just more tempted to use them, it sounds perfectly normal and natural what you are doing, just don't doubt yourself, have confidence that your body can provide that which your baby needs, there is so much more to nursing than nutrition, as previously suggested settle down in bed or on the sofa with your wee one have some tea or water, the phone, a book, the tv control or your 3 yo can get you some nappies and other little things that you may need to keep you going - they just love little jobs to do to help mamma with the baby. Have you got a wrap or sling - indespensible in the early days, weeks and months!! Then go to an LLL meeting when you have the opportunity to get the support that you need.

[tinyblackdot]

Be sure that "if" you do give her formula that you pump no matter what. If you where having supply issues with your fist lo, you need to be sure to keep your production up. Nothing will help your supply more than letting your lo nurse, so if you give her a bottle instead, you HAVE to pump to keep up your supply. But i totally agree with everything all these wise mothers have said. Nurse, nurse, nurse! If she is having plenty of wet and dirty diapers, she is getting enough milk. She is probably just nursing a lot to get your supply going good and strong. Dont stop! Your doing a great job!

[LoganBsMom]

Thanks everyone. We are doing ok. She did get a bottle again last night. She nursed pretty much nonstop all evening. About midnight she started getting fussy and escalated to frantic screaming. She would latch on, suck, get nothing and start screaming again. I had dh give her a bottle and I pumped. I was really stressed out then too so that didn't help. But she took 2 ounces of formula, sooo. And I got nothing with the pump.

Today, so far so good. Lots of time nursing. She has gained 2 oz so I know she isn't starving. I am not confidant enough yet to chuck the bottles, but they are an absolute last resort.

thanks for the advice and I will keep you all updated!

[alegna]

At least get the formula out of the house.

Pump if you feel the need.

Put the bottles away -WAY away- top of a closet away.

You can supplement with spoon feeding, finger feeding, cup feeding, syringe feeding etc.

The bottles and formula can sink you.

you CAN do this!

-Angela

[tinyblackdot]

hey mama, i also wanted to add that you might think about getting some mothers milk tea, and try eating some oatmeal to help your supply aswell.

If you keep giving your lo formula, she probably going to not get full with your BM. Formula is alot heavier than BM, and she gets it alot faster. So i really would try to not use it. If you have to why not try pumping and get a good back up supply going and give her that instead? Maybe try pumping after every feeding, and then even if your just getting an ounce or so, use that to give her.

I just fear that you will get sucked into the formula black hole. Where you give them a bit to satisfy, and then your supply will go down, and then its just a downward spiral from there. You have to thnk of it like eating a salad and veggies(Breast milk) vs a hamburger . If you eat the salad and veggies, you will most likely be hungry in a couple of hours, but everything you are eating is packed full of vitamins but not so satisfying for a long period. But the hamburger (formula) is very filling and will satisfy your hunger for quite a while longer, but at the sacrifice of not getting all the same nutrient.

[Bensmommy]

If you truly are worried (and it sounds like you are!) GET THEE TO AN IBCLC TODAY!!!!!!! A good, experienced LC is worth her weight in gold! She can help encourage you and help trouble shoot. If you hear swallowing, then you have milk, so keep nursing!!!! Did you ever have your thyroid tested? A low thyroid can disrupt milk production.

All this being said, go with your gut, but don't sabotage yourself. Since this is your second child, your body will more readily respond with milk (at least, that was my body's reaction). Little newborns are fickle, fussy creatures that need constant soothing. Don't let every cry be interpreted as hunger-- see if other soothing will work-- let Daddy wear LO in the sling, close to his warm chest and very loud heart. Bounce on a birth ball. It will all come back to you!!!!

YOU CAN DO THIS, MAMA!!!! But, really, get a knowledgeable LC on your side.

s

[tinyblackdot]

Originally Posted by Bensmommy

If you truly are worried (and it sounds like you are!) GET THEE TO AN IBCLC TODAY!!!!!!! A good, experienced LC is worth her weight in gold! She can help encourage you and help trouble shoot. If you hear swallowing, then you have milk, so keep nursing!!!! Did you ever have your thyroid tested? A low thyroid can disrupt milk production.

All this being said, go with your gut, but don't sabotage yourself. Since this is your second child, your body will more readily respond with milk (at least, that was my body's reaction). Little newborns are fickle, fussy creatures that need constant soothing. Don't let every cry be interpreted as hunger-- see if other soothing will work-- let Daddy wear LO in the sling, close to his warm chest and very loud heart. Bounce on a birth ball. It will all come back to you!!!!

YOU CAN DO THIS, MAMA!!!! But, really, get a knowledgeable LC on your side.

s

huh! that's interesting! you learn something new everyday!

[LoganBsMom]

Ok, still going here, but I think I mostly just need some encouragement, pretty please!! We are 11 days old now, we had a couple of great days, baby seemed satisfied, we still had that one time, usually in the evening, where she gets a bottle, about 2 ounces. I have pumped several times, but even when I know there is milk there, I get nothing pumping, so the bottles have been formula.

I have done lots of reading online, I know it is common for a new baby to have fussy time in the evening, and I swear I try everything before the bottle. It usually goes something like this. Emilee starts fussing usually around 3-4 pm, usually after a longish nap, couple hours or so. So, we nurse, and nurse, and nurse, for about 3+ hours straight, I might get a 5 minute bathroom break if I am lucky. Then she gets reaaly fussy at the breast. She will suck frantically for a couple minutes then pull off and sceam, relatch and repeat several times (no swallowing heard). I try walking, soothing, singing, rocking, all useless. When I finally break and give her a bottle she drinks it, then is extremly content, and wide awake. She usually nurses again an hour or so later. So what gives?

The last couple days she is VERY sleepy and I am worried she is sleepy because she is not getting enough to eat. It is a terrible struggle to keep her awake. I am switch nursing, tickling, poking, everything possible. It takes about an hour to get her nursed, then we have an hour before we start again. Her wet and dirty dipes have been just hitting the minimum (6-7 wet, and 2-3 dirty). I started taking fenugreek along with mothers milk tea.

Oh, but she will sleep 3-4 hours at night easily. The only LLL meetings in my area meet only once a month, and I missed it already. So, no help there.

Any suggestions, or even just encouragement? She is back to nursing almost hourly today, I am thinking maybe she knows too that she wants more than I have. I never had any engorgement. I never really feel full, except when she sleeps 4 hours, and have only really felt letdown mildly a couple times.

So, thats my story, thanks for reading and letting me get it off my chest, so to speak, lol.

[alegna]

If you want this to work, you've got to get rid of the bottles. Now. Today. Yesterday.

Kellymom has instructions for weaning off supplements, but drop the bottles NOW. Get them out of your house before this evening.

Your body WILL get the message, but only if you let it.

-Angela

[Love_My_Bubba]

Originally Posted by LoganBsMom

Ok, still going here, but I think I mostly just need some encouragement, pretty please!! We are 11 days old now, we had a couple of great days, baby seemed satisfied, we still had that one time, usually in the evening, where she gets a bottle, about 2 ounces. I have pumped several times, but even when I know there is milk there, I get nothing pumping, so the bottles have been formula.

I have done lots of reading online, I know it is common for a new baby to have fussy time in the evening, and I swear I try everything before the bottle. It usually goes something like this. Emilee starts fussing usually around 3-4 pm, usually after a longish nap, couple hours or so. So, we nurse, and nurse, and nurse, for about 3+ hours straight, I might get a 5 minute bathroom break if I am lucky. Then she gets reaaly fussy at the breast. She will suck frantically for a couple minutes then pull off and sceam, relatch and repeat several times (no swallowing heard). I try walking, soothing, singing, rocking, all useless. When I finally break and give her a bottle she drinks it, then is extremly content, and wide awake. She usually nurses again an hour or so later. So what gives?

The last couple days she is VERY sleepy and I am worried she is sleepy because she is not getting enough to eat. It is a terrible struggle to keep her awake. I am switch nursing, tickling, poking, everything possible. It takes about an hour to get her nursed, then we have an hour before we start again. Her wet and dirty dipes have been just hitting the minimum (6-7 wet, and 2-3 dirty). I started taking fenugreek along with mothers milk tea.

Oh, but she will sleep 3-4 hours at night easily. The only LLL meetings in my area meet only once a month, and I missed it already. So, no help there.

Any suggestions, or even just encouragement? She is back to nursing almost hourly today, I am thinking maybe she knows too that she wants more than I have. I never had any engorgement. I never really feel full, except when she sleeps 4 hours, and have only really felt letdown mildly a couple times.

So, thats my story, thanks for reading and letting me get it off my chest, so to speak, lol.

Ok, here's my story (please no flames, I know natural is best but this worked for us and DS is still nursing, he'll be 3 next month):

DS was a power nurser, he was at the breast ALL OF THE TIME. Well, one night when he was still very young, maybe 2 months old, I had NO milk. He couldn't nurse any out and neither DH or I could pump or hand express any out. I was completely and totally terrified and panicked. We went through a day or 2 and his diapers weren't looking good.

So I went online and did some reading and asked my OB if I could try Reglan to help boost my supply, boy was that a bad choice. It worked in the milk production department but threw mw into a DEEP depression.

I went to a LLL meeting one day in hysterics because I just couldn't control my emotions. She asked what was going on and immediately told me to get off of the Reglan and start taking Domperidone. She saved my nursing relationship, hands down. Here is the webite she gave me: http://www.breastfeedingonline.com/domperidone.shtml and this is where I ordered mine, I never had a problem with them and I took it for over a year http://www.inhousepharmacy.com/general/motilium.html

In the US you can only get Domperidone from a compounding pharmacist but you can order it online and it's not too terribly expensive. It's used to treat gastrointestinal problems but a side effect is that it stimulates the release of prolactin in the brain and therefore stimulates milk production. It worked like a charm. What's really great is that it poses little, if any, risk. Domperidone is actually administered through an IV to infants who need it, the amount that passes through breastmilk is far less than a child would get in treatment.

I took it 3 times a day and it was worth the $$(WAY less that I ever would have spent on formula) and the effort. Once I was done pumping for DS I weaned off and now I have just enogh milk for our sweet nursing sessions in the morning and after I get home from work.

I'm not saying that this should be your next step but maybe it will give you a little bit of comfort to know that if all of the other alternatives don't work you have a safety net to save the nursing relationship. I've been thinking about you, hang in there and let me know if you have any questions.

Oh, and just to make you smile, here's a funny joke I heard today.

What kind of bee make milk?

A boo bee! Get it? boobie?

[mamabutterfly]

Are you eating/drinking things to increase your supply? Mother's milk tea, water, oatmeal, fenugreek (herb),I know there are other things. I'm no expert though.

Even though the LLL mtg is past, absolutely call the LLL contact person in your area!! I'm sure she'd love to have you call at 11 days old rather than waiting a month for a meeting! The encouragement will be great and you might get some great tips for increasing supply or pumping, since you get no milk when you do pump.

You *are* doing an amazing job, mama!! Hang in there, and remember the newborn days will go by so quickly. My 'newborn' is crawling, I can't believe it.