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can't resell kids items? - Page 6

post #101 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by mamazee View Post
Another thing - I'm not going to trust that tag, depending on where I see it, anyway. Is anyone really going to trust that a tag saying something has been tested means it actually has and that it absolutely couldn't have lead in it? If I buy something from a WAHM, particularly associated with a place like MDC, I'm going to have a higher level of trust that there is no lead than I would have in a tagged item from Walmart. Wouldn't most people?
Yes this. I would rather buy from Selecta or Maple Landmark untagged, than buy a wooden toy from Target that is tagged lead-free.

In other words, it won't affect my shopping preference. I will still trust the same companies I trust now, and won't buy from the big plastic companies.
post #102 of 132
Someone else mentioned in the thread in activism:

It makes me sick that you can buy food that hasn't been tested for things, or you can buy organic. You still have the choice which one you want to ingest.

But with toys, the kind that aren't tested are illegal! Why not give the consumer the choice? Make it clear on the label, our company does not test for lead.

Meanwhile, food with pesticides, rat poop, etc is legal.

Baffles my mind.
post #103 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by caitryn View Post
My mom brought up that point earlier. After all, when the health inspector takes a look at a fast food place, all you have to do is slip the inspector a free meal and maybe some money, and the store will get a good score. (This actually happened at a place that my dad worked years ago.) This kind of stuff happens all the time in a variety of businesses. How long before the big businesses start buying off the inspectors in relation to this new law so that they can put no-lead labels on lead-containing products?
That is a really good point too. I wouldn't trust it either.
post #104 of 132

New clarification

I'm not sure if this is on the thread yet...

http://www.cpsc.gov/cpscpub/prerel/prhtml09/09086.html

Sounds like reselling clothes should be just fine. I'd think books too.

Resellers aren't required test for lead. But they're not supposed to sell products that don't meet the new lead limits or have been recalled. It lists cribs, play yards, kid's jewelry, and painted toys as items to be careful with.
post #105 of 132
HUUUUUUUUUGE RELIEF !!!!!!

Now they need to exempt handcrafted goods from testing.
post #106 of 132
Thats good news!
post #107 of 132
: :

they are listening!!!
post #108 of 132
Thank God! I am so relieved, really, I was getting worried about everyone who just canNOT afford endless new clothes, and the environmental impact, etc.
post #109 of 132
In the middle of this article there is a link where you can sign up to give comments about this law. It says there will soon be a 30 day comment period:
http://www.latimes.com/business/la-f...,6917858.story
post #110 of 132
From the new clarification:

Quote:
Sellers of used children’s products, such as thrift stores and consignment stores, are not required to certify that those products meet the new lead limits, phthalates standard or new toy standards.

The new safety law does not require resellers to test children’s products in inventory for compliance with the lead limit before they are sold. However, resellers cannot sell children’s products that exceed the lead limit and therefore should avoid products that are likely to have lead content, unless they have testing or other information to indicate the products being sold have less than the new limit. Those resellers that do sell products in violation of the new limits could face civil and/or criminal penalties.
This still sounds like it could be very challenging for Resellers to be in-line with the law. You don't have to test, but you can't sell items above the limit. How can you KNOW if older items are over or under the limit with out testing them. Seems like it is a bit of a catch-22 for toys and equipment.
post #111 of 132
To me, the part that says this, "and therefore should avoid products that are likely to have lead content," means avoid toys or clothes with paint on them. To me, that means logos, painted jeans snaps, and wooden or plastic toys that are painted.
post #112 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by beccaroo View Post
I'm not sure if this is on the thread yet...

http://www.cpsc.gov/cpscpub/prerel/prhtml09/09086.html

Sounds like reselling clothes should be just fine. I'd think books too.

Resellers aren't required test for lead. But they're not supposed to sell products that don't meet the new lead limits or have been recalled. It lists cribs, play yards, kid's jewelry, and painted toys as items to be careful with.
I'd like to put my two (untested for lead content) cents in. As Beccaroo posted today's update from the CPSC, they have just announced that resellers of used products do not have to test for lead. Or do they?

From the CPSC report link she posted:

"Sellers of used children’s products, such as thrift stores and consignment stores, are not required to certify that those products meet the new lead limits, phthalates standard or new toy standards."

Then the very next paragraph says

"The new safety law does not require resellers to test children’s products in inventory for compliance with the lead limit before they are sold. However, resellers cannot sell children’s products that exceed the lead limit and therefore should avoid products that are likely to have lead content, unless they have testing or other information to indicate the products being sold have less than the new limit. Those resellers that do sell products in violation of the new limits could face civil and/or criminal penalties." (I added the bold)

So in essence, the CPSC has made it optional for resellers to test. However, the reseller can face felony charges if caught selling even ONE article of clothing or a toy that exceeds the limit of lead. Imagine the opportunity for frivolous lawsuits this is going to bring.

I'm glad that this issue is finally getting some attention. I can not understand why the press has not jumped on this. There has been a huge effort by those in the children's industry to help educate people about this crazy law and the effect it is going to have on so many people.

To give you some idea of how this is going to affect the market, I'll tell you how it is affecting me. I am the co-owner and designer of a small knitwear line. Our line is Made in Peru of 100% cotton. We do use buttons, elastic and an occasional zipper in a jacket. Even though my products are inherently safe, my line is subject to the same testing as Mattel and FisherPrice toys.

Someone said they didn't understand the retroactive nature of the law. What this means is that on Feb 10th, only items that have a "Certificate of Conformity" which states that the item contains less than 600 ppm of lead can be sold. Any items that have not been tested, are to be considered hazardous materials and it will be a felony to sell them.

What this means for my company is that currently our Fall collections are in around 175 stores across the country. This merchandise was shipped to these stores BEFORE THIS LAW WAS EVEN WRITTEN. On Feb 10th, it will be illegal for a store to sell any of this merchandise that they have owned for several months, unless we (as the manufacturer) can prove that we have tested each piece for lead content and have a "General Certificate of Conformity" (GCC). In order for us to have a GCC, we have to pay for testing a product that we have already sold at a price that was determined long before we knew we would have to pay for testing. The least expensive method currently, is for us to rent an XRF gun and do the testing ourselves. Inexpensive equals $3,000. In August, we will be required to use a CPSC-approved third-party testing service. The cost for this is $150 for each time they "push the button". One garment does not equal one "push". Each component of each garment needs to be tested. We have a jacket that will currently take seven scans to test. That is $1,050 to test ONE jacket, in one colorway. The current testing that they are demanding is ridiculously redundant. For our new fall collection that we take to market in the next few weeks, the cost of third party testing will be around $105,000. This far exceeds our projected profits for the season. (This is not a very lucrative field in case anyone is curious!) For 100% cotton clothing that isn't embellished with metal or rhinestones or other bling, this testing is unnecessary. Unless this law is completely overhauled, small niche clothing lines like mine and many others will be forced out of business at the hands of our own government.

As I was typing this, I received a call from my state representative's office. The aide I spoke with said he's been on the phone with the CPSC for 3 days. It was only through congressional pressure that they made the change for the consignment and resell industry. He said that this law was originally intended to target dangerous imports from China and it was never meant to affect small businesses like mine. At least he gets it.

One interesting thing I just confirmed with him is how many people sit on the CPSC. Currently, that number is 2. TWO!!!!!

Sorry for the long rambling post. Thank you to all of you who called your representatives.

Rebecca
post #113 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by RJJmom View Post

So in essence, the CPSC has made it optional for resellers to test. However, the reseller can face felony charges if caught selling even ONE article of clothing or a toy that exceeds the limit of lead. Imagine the opportunity for frivolous lawsuits this is going to bring.
Our local thriftstores stopped selling toys last year after the toy recalls. They won't accept donations of them or they just toss them into the trash. I'm sure they will just stop selling kids clothing as well.

Thanks for posting your story, RJJmom.
post #114 of 132
NEWS!!! I asked my boss today and she said that yes, if it is not amended that we would have to close. However, at about 5o'clock she got an email from the president of the franchise saying that CPSC just amended the bill *today* so that it does not apply to *resale* items. So consignment, thrift stores, garage sales, ebay, and craigslist are now in the clear. She showed me the CPSC link when I was there but I didn't write down the URL so I can't give you hard proof just yet but I'm just psyched I won't be losing my job next month.

My boss said that if it hadn't been amended, we would have had to send each item to a lab where, for instance, a shirt with multicolored flowers and a few buttons that we would sell for 3.99 would have to have each individual color and button tested at about $100 for each color/button by a process that would destroy the shirt anyway. So yes, we would have had to close. Or sell that shirt for $600.00.
post #115 of 132
beccaroo, thank you so much for posting the link to the update so quickly today. I needed that !!!!!

For anyone who missed it, here it is again:

http://www.cpsc.gov/cpscpub/prerel/prhtml09/09086.html

This takes the requirement for testing away from anyone reselling used products but does not take away their potential liability for accidentally selling something that exceeds the new lead limits. Still, progress.

They have not yet addressed the issue of making this law into something that small companies and handcrafters can stay in business with.

There is an Etsy blog that has some suggested action steps, in addition to continuing to put pressure on our US Senators and Representatives:

http://www.etsy.com/forums_thread.ph...5987456&page=1
post #116 of 132
What a relief! I've been following the news of the CPSIA through various websites (including nationalbankruptcyday.com) and so it's good to know that the CSPC is actually listening to concerns. Hopefully they will consider the National Association of Manufacturers' plan and change this law so that it protects small businesses as well as children.
post #117 of 132
Wow! I had no idea this was going on. Just read the whole thread, what a roller-coaster.

The thought came that this legislation was written by those who obviously don't ever buy used clothing, and thus had no idea of the huge impact of this new law. Yes, we all want to keep our children safe, but a blanket regulation like that is very exaggerated.

It is good news that second hand clothing stores that cater to children's items won't be forced into bankruptcy, but I really hope that businesses like Rebecca's (post # 112) can find a way to survive this.
post #118 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by Miss 1928 View Post
The thought came that this legislation was written by those who obviously don't ever buy used clothing, and thus had no idea of the huge impact of this new law. .
No kidding!
post #119 of 132

Alternate plan regarding 3rd party testing

Regarding the other problem with the CPSIA, the effect on small businesses, I just sent my own plan off to some folks in Washington. I am putting it here as well and anyone who agrees with it is free to use it, or use parts of it and change it up to insert your own ideas. Please remove the part about being an engineer with manufacturing experience unless it applies to you !

Dear xxx,

I am a citizen who is in favor of the Consumer Product Safety Improvement Act. However I have some grave concerns about the specific points of the third party testing requirements and the affect they are going to have on small and household domestic businesses.

The way this act is currently written will require each business that makes a children's product to pay for third party testing of every part and non-exempt component of that product in order to sell it. For clothing, each separate style, size, and color of an item is considered a separate product. When you consider that each separate part of each style, size, and color of each product has to be individually tested by a third party lab, and the cost for each test, the financial burden this will place on small and family domestic businesses is enormous. It will not be financially feasible for them to continue in business, and they will close. Meanwhile, large corporations that mass produce lower quality items overseas using foreign labor will be able to absorb the cost of the testing requirements and stay in business.

I do not believe it is necessary for our government to drive our nation's small and family businesses out of the children's market in order to ensure safe products for our children. As an engineer with manufacturing experience, I propose an alternative approach.

For children's goods produced in the United States in small quantities, do not put the expensive burden of third party testing on the business that makes the final product. Instead, allow the business to provide, for each product they produce, a sworn affidavit of all materials and specific components contained in the product, and for each component of the product that is not exempt from the lead and phthalate testing requirement, a certificate of lead and phthalate testing provided by the manufacturer of those component parts.

This would dramatically decrease the cost of compliance for small and family businesses, while still ensuring the safety of the components and parts that are of concern. With this plan, our American small businesses and family businesses can remain in our marketplace and thrive. The burden of testing is placed on those manufacturers who mass produce the questionable components, and they can afford it, and our nation's small and family businesses will not be punished for the previous actions of those companies.

I hope you will give this alternative serious consideration and work to make the CPSIA a law that ensures safe products for children AND allows the American Dream to continue for those who produce products for children.

Sincerely,

xxx
post #120 of 132
I can't read everything here, but has anyone mentioned trading sites, like kizoodle.com? It's based on a point system instead of $. I was on it and it worked great until the point value got out of hand.

The concept is good though if it can be monitored.
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