January dating thread!!!! - Page 4

[DanishMom]

Originally Posted by Anne2008

The highlighted part, that's definately how I feel. Like Im in a hurry to be with someone long-term, so im willing to over-look things that I wouldn't if I wasn't in a rush.
I'm definately taking on board everything you all are saying, and I'm currently forming a list of things that I need to talk through with him to get his opinion on things before we go any further. -Anything come to mind you think I should discuss with him?

But where do you draw the line? On the one hand we all agree no-one is perfect, so you have to be willing to accept some flaws in a guy, as he accepts yours too. And on the other hand people say "you can do better than that guy" go for someone better. How do you know if a guy is good enough for you or not? At this point in my life, to be honest, I feel lucky to have almost anyone interested in me for a relationship. There's so much baggage that comes along with me, yk? And this guy doesn't even know the half of it yet, so it's possible he'll be the one to end things once we have that talk and I tell him everything (baggage wise).

SeieEnjoy the shopping trip with your guy! That's sweet you didn't even have to suggest he takes you, you just had to say you needed something, and he instantly offered to take you to go get it. aw

What you are writing is really making me sad Anne. I have "baggage" too and I know ALL about how it feels when you are afraid that your baggage or issues mean that your are worth less than others. I'll tell you a bit about my baggage simply to show you that other people can feel the same as you.

I was raped when I was 14 years old. To deal with the trauma I started to smoke a lot of pot and went to too many parties. I got PTSD from the rape. The complex PTSD type which resembles borderline personality disorder a lot. For years I was afraid I was too fucked up emotionally to have kids. Thanks to my strength and will power I managed to solve most of my problems and went on to have a family. I got a married to an abusive guy who seemed to really want to be with me. I felt so relieved that he really wanted to be with me despite my baggage and despite the fact that I was "damaged goods".

Two and half years ago I got a herniated disc in my neck, had surgery which failed, had two more herniated discs and have been on morphine on a daily basis to deal with the pain. Having a physical illness is hard too because it hurts my DP (we have been together for three years) and he have wanted children for a long time. And because of my neck I still haven't finished my master thesis!

But despite my baggage and issues I have everything to offer in a relationship and I'm so happy to have found one that is so good and healthy. It took me 15 years to realize what I will accept and where I'll draw the line. It was hard to learn but in a way it makes me less afraid of loosing my DP - something that I've been very scared of in all of my relationships.

No matter your issues or baggage I'm convinced that you have as much to offer as anyone else. What you offer are basically your heart, your ability to love and care for another human being. If you feel like it you can PM if you want to talk in private. I'd love to help you deal if you think I can.

I need to go now but I'll be back with an answer to your questions about the red flags.

[Lisa_Lynn]

Is this weird?

I was dating a guy for a while, Long story short I didn't think I was into him as much as I should of been. He stayed with me off and on for a few days then I send him home cause I got bored with him or whatever you say. But now that we are back together, since a few days ago. He went home to do some stuff for his mom and dad anyways, Now I can't wait to see him again, Is that weird my emotions change so much? He is a amazing man who I truly care about. I just want to keep those amazing feeling for him because he is every women's dream man.

[DanishMom]

I think it is completely normal for feelings to change quite a bit in the beginning. Sometimes it does take some time to figure it out. Feeling a little scared or overwhelmed can make you feel like you don't want closeness.

Good luck.

[Seie]

Anne: Yeah to all Butterflymom and Danishmom said. They are clever ladies.
I also wanted to warn you about discussing red flags with him. ANY abuser will deny that he is abusive. They dont think there is anything wrong with THEM - its everyone elses fault when something gets wrong. So if you want to talk with him about red flags you need to do it in a very descreet way. There is no point in asking him "Would you ever pressure me into something" cause his answer will be no. You need to ask more about his general attitude towards women and relationships. Such as for instance why is he not with his former girlfriend anymore. The typical abusive-guy answer will be to start telling why everything was her fault and how he was either a victim or the smarter one of them. A normal non-abusive guy would be more focussed on why they didnt fit together/were too different/had different views on things. The abusive guy will tell you how she was always wrong/stupid/a bitch/immature - whatever he can come up with to put her down.

That is I believe pretty general for abusers. They like to give a good image of themselfes. When they tell about stuff in their past they will always seem like either heroes or victims to other peoples flaws. So get him talking about himself and pay attention to how he describes himself.

My ex had an image of himself as a really good guy, someone who was very decent, always loyal etc. And I believed that picture for years - not because I had really seen him behave in a way that warrented all those positive characteristics - but because he had told me that was how he was - and I believed him.

With abusive men you CANT TRUST words. They are usually very charming, they seem so perfect that they make you feel very lucky that such an interesting, intelligent, powerful guy would be interested in you. The only way to really spot them is to take red flags serious. Red flags being for instance how you feel when you are around them. As well as ANY act that is meant to control YOUR behaviour - such as sulking to make you feel guilty for not calling, or implying that you really should be doing more than kissing by now.

[DanishMom]

Originally Posted by Seie

Anne: Yeah to all Butterflymom and Danishmom said. They are clever ladies.

So are you!

I also wanted to warn you about discussing red flags with him. ANY abuser will deny that he is abusive. They dont think there is anything wrong with THEM - its everyone elses fault when something gets wrong. So if you want to talk with him about red flags you need to do it in a very descreet way.

I agree - please don't discuss it with him. You can talk about it here if you need to.

That is I believe pretty general for abusers. They like to give a good image of themselfes. When they tell about stuff in their past they will always seem like either heroes or victims to other peoples flaws.

Oh yes - it brings up some funny memories about things my ex have said about others.

My ex had an image of himself as a really good guy, someone who was very decent, always loyal etc. And I believed that picture for years - not because I had really seen him behave in a way that warrented all those positive characteristics - but because he had told me that was how he was - and I believed him.
BTDT too.

With abusive men you CANT TRUST words. They are usually very charming, they seem so perfect that they make you feel very lucky that such an interesting, intelligent, powerful guy would be interested in you. The only way to really spot them is to take red flags serious. Red flags being for instance how you feel when you are around them. As well as ANY act that is meant to control YOUR behaviour - such as sulking to make you feel guilty for not calling, or implying that you really should be doing more than kissing by now.

The first time my ex was truly abusive was after two or three weeks. He invited me to go on vacation in Italy. When I said I thought it was too soon to spend 10 days together night and day in another country he accused me of not being spontanious, not being romantic, that I was ungreatful and obviously didn't feel as strongly about our relationship as he did. He got so mad he left the café - the chair fell over when he got up. He got in his car and didn't want to listen what I had to say. He drove to his place and I sat there for a couple of hours thinking about whether I should break up with him. But I was in love with him and that evening I went over to his place and told him I'd love to go with him to Italy. BTW - he told me he loved me after being together with me for about a week. More often than not that's a red flag. Ok - you can laugh at me now - but to my defence I was only 23 at the time.

My ex was so good at sulking - all the fuc*ing time. He made me feel like I had done something wrong many times a day[/I]

[Anne2008]

Well I talked to him on the phone tonight, and apart from 2 things, it was a nice chat, just about general stuff. 2 things have stayed on my mind in the past few hours though, that I just feel is weird. Can you tell me what you think please?

1-Im 100% sure he told me before Christmas he was 24 and would be 25 in 2009 "24, I'll be 25 next year". Then tonight on the phone we were discussing someone's birthday, so I asked him when his is, and he replied he had it -it was early January. Fine. But then I said "so you're 25 now?" and he said no he's 24 now, he was only 23 before...So I was like "im sure you told me you were 24 and going to be 25" and he said "sorry if you heard me wrong, im 24 now not 25". -So....I mean that's weird right? Maybe it's a misunderstanding because of the language barrier again? I don't know but that seems weird to me.

2-I brought up about his ex-girlfriend, which he had told me about before a little. He said she broke up with him because he refused to move in with her and have a baby with her when they had only been together a short period of time, it was way too soon for him. -Fair enough, that's sensible, imo it's good he didn't want to rush into that kind of stuff. Anyway, last time he said they had been together 3 months when she wanted to do all this with him, then tonight he told me it had only been 1 month when she asked him to do it. So again, that's conflicting and I don't know which is true. Am I going mad and over-reacting over nothing on this one? I just don't know.

Here's what im thinking. We haven't seen eachother in person for 3 weeks (due to DS being home for the school Christmas holidays, and us both being sick an extra week), so I'm thinking it might be good to not meet him again just yet, but continue getting to know eachother over the phone instead?

He already said again tonight hes desperate to see me, and wants us to move foreward, and that meeting up for an hour in the mornings (like we did before a few times when I walk my dog) -that he feels that isn't long enough to get to know eachother. I know what he means, and agree seeing eachother for longer periods of time is how we are going to get to know eachother better. But I said "when do we have time to do that?" And he said he will leave that upto me to think about and decide on a good time and place. (ok when??? where??? how long for??? lol)

Seie He asked me if I would like to go shopping with him on Sunday to help him pick out some new shoes -he needs some apparantly. Seie weren't you just saying it was a really good sign if a guy wants you to go shopping with him?
Ofcourse I said "I can't do it on Sunday" -because im with my DS at the weekends as school is closed. It annoys me a bit that he continues to suggest we see eachother on weekend days when I've said so many times that I can't. It is the best day for him though, so that's why.

[Holland73]

Originally Posted by Anne2008

1-Im 100% sure he told me before Christmas he was 24 and would be 25 in 2009 "24, I'll be 25 next year". Then tonight on the phone we were discussing someone's birthday, so I asked him when his is, and he replied he had it -it was early January. Fine. But then I said "so you're 25 now?" and he said no he's 24 now, he was only 23 before...So I was like "im sure you told me you were 24 and going to be 25" and he said "sorry if you heard me wrong, im 24 now not 25". -So....I mean that's weird right? Maybe it's a misunderstanding because of the language barrier again? I don't know but that seems weird to me.

2-I brought up about his ex-girlfriend, which he had told me about before a little. He said she broke up with him because he refused to move in with her and have a baby with her when they had only been together a short period of time, it was way too soon for him. -Fair enough, that's sensible, imo it's good he didn't want to rush into that kind of stuff. Anyway, last time he said they had been together 3 months when she wanted to do all this with him, then tonight he told me it had only been 1 month when she asked him to do it. So again, that's conflicting and I don't know which is true. Am I going mad and over-reacting over nothing on this one? I just don't know.

No, you are not going mad.

He is lying to you and having a difficult time keeping his stories/facts straight.

[Ione]

Originally Posted by Anne2008

1-Im 100% sure he told me before Christmas he was 24 and would be 25 in 2009 "24, I'll be 25 next year". Then tonight on the phone we were discussing someone's birthday, so I asked him when his is, and he replied he had it -it was early January. Fine. But then I said "so you're 25 now?" and he said no he's 24 now, he was only 23 before...So I was like "im sure you told me you were 24 and going to be 25" and he said "sorry if you heard me wrong, im 24 now not 25". -So....I mean that's weird right? Maybe it's a misunderstanding because of the language barrier again? I don't know but that seems weird to me.

2-I brought up about his ex-girlfriend, which he had told me about before a little. He said she broke up with him because he refused to move in with her and have a baby with her when they had only been together a short period of time, it was way too soon for him. -Fair enough, that's sensible, imo it's good he didn't want to rush into that kind of stuff. Anyway, last time he said they had been together 3 months when she wanted to do all this with him, then tonight he told me it had only been 1 month when she asked him to do it. So again, that's conflicting and I don't know which is true. Am I going mad and over-reacting over nothing on this one? I just don't know.

Anne, I don't usually post on the dating thread but...

I lived in France for 20 years... and did not speak any French at all really when I moved there. I therefore have quite a bit of experience with dating people whose first language was not my first language and with the difficulties of communicating in a foreign language.

Even when I could barely string three words together without making ten grammatical mistakes in French, I never told anyone I was the wrong age. I might have mispronounced the number, had to say I was "two-zero years old" (instead of "twenty"), or the like, but I never had anyone think I was a different age than I was.

NEITHER of your examples could be due to any language barrier. They do not involve subtleties of language or grammar. They do not involve idiomatic expressions. They do not involve "false friends" (false cognates)--i.e. words that seem the same but have very different meanings.

He is, IMO, lying and having trouble keeping his story straight. I would bet on it.

Please, please, listen to everyone warning you about this guy. There are so many red flags all over everything you say about him.

[Ione]

Originally Posted by Anne2008

Seie He asked me if I would like to go shopping with him on Sunday to help him pick out some new shoes -he needs some apparantly. Seie weren't you just saying it was a really good sign if a guy wants you to go shopping with him?

Sorry to be a downer again, Anne, but it is not a "good sign" if a guy wants to go shopping with you. Nor is it a bad sign. It can mean pretty much anything depending on the individual people involved and the specific circumstances/history involved.

It is fantastic for Seie because they've been casually dating and have already had a conversation in which he asked Seie what, for her, would push someone out of the "casual dating" realm and into boyfriend/girlfriend/relationship territory... She said "shopping". So, her guy asking to go shopping is clearly making overtures toward more than just casual dating.

For some other guy to want to go shopping with some other girl without that previous discussion, the meaning is not the same and could mean anything: he likes shopping, he wants to show off his money, he wants to con the girl into buying him shoes, he wants to buy her something to be nice, he wants to buy her something so she'll "owe" him, and so on and so forth.

PLEASE, listen to everyone about the red flags this guy is throwing up and the need for you to get some perspective and not get involved with him...

[nataliachick7]

Originally Posted by Ione

Sorry to be a downer again, Anne, but it is not a "good sign" if a guy wants to go shopping with you. Nor is it a bad sign. It can mean pretty much anything depending on the individual people involved and the specific circumstances/history involved.

It is fantastic for Seie because they've been casually dating and have already had a conversation in which he asked Seie what, for her, would push someone out of the "casual dating" realm and into boyfriend/girlfriend/relationship territory... She said "shopping". So, her guy asking to go shopping is clearly making overtures toward more than just casual dating.

For some other guy to want to go shopping with some other girl without that previous discussion, the meaning is not the same and could mean anything: he likes shopping, he wants to show off his money, he wants to con the girl into buying him shoes, he wants to buy her something to be nice, he wants to buy her something so she'll "owe" him, and so on and so forth.

PLEASE, listen to everyone about the red flags this guy is throwing up and the need for you to get some perspective and not get involved with him...

:

[JohnnysGirl]

Originally Posted by Ione

PLEASE, listen to everyone about the red flags this guy is throwing up and the need for you to get some perspective and not get involved with him...

Originally Posted by Holland73

No, you are not going mad.

He is lying to you and having a difficult time keeping his stories/facts straight.

Seie, DanishMom, Nataliachick7, Ione, Holland73, several other mamas on this board, and definitely I have really been very, very clear about how wrong basically everything you say about this guy sounds to us. Why are you still ignoring it and so stubborn and reluctant to read the writing on the wall (well, MDC boards, )? Do you feel so ready to have some kind of a relationship with any man, that you are welcoming a lying, sketchy, manipulative, and probably abusive guy into your and your son's lives? Everyone agrees that you need to break out of your shyness shell and make the effort to get to know some other men, at least just casually as friends, to get some social experience (I know it's hard and inconvenient and scary, but it's mandatory if you are ever going to be able to choose the right partner for a lasting, healthy relationship) and then find yourself in the position where you are able to stumble across the right guy for you for a real relationship. You may have to 'kiss a few frogs' (ok, sip coffee/go for a walk with a few frogs, I'm not suggesting you actually have to kiss anyone, I know how shy you are) to find the right guy for you, but that's just life!!! All of us wish it would be so simple that 'poof!' the moment we're in the mood for Mr. Perfect Boyfriend to enter our lives and begin an ideal relationship with us, and get involved also with our children down the line, he would just show up and sweep us off our feet. But unfortunately you have to get out there and turn over some stones and look around, because there is no magic trick to just will him into appearing from sheer force of desire. This guy ain't it...very far from it. Let him go. Stay on this thread with us, and use us for support in terms of getting over your social fears and meeting new men casually, and let us know how those encounters go, and maybe at some point in 2009, you will meet the right guy for you, to be your boyfriend. Or maybe next year. Have some patience, and gear yourself up for the immense courage it will take for you to break out of your shell and meet several new people this year and next. The right guy will come along, eventually, and all the experience you will have gained by spending time with some decent guys who were fine but not right for you, will help you to really know and appreciate the right one when he comes along. It seems to usually happen when you are not desperate for it to happen, so keep that in mind, that your being extremely ready and desperate and in a rush for a boyfriend is actually counterproductive for actually getting the kind of relationship you want to have.

[Seie]

Anne: I dont know how to make it any clearer than I already have. That guy is bad news. He is everything you DONT want in a partner. As I recently read in a book - how can you build a house of trust if the guy cant even lay the first brick?

You come here to ask our opinion about him. More than a month ago I wrote "the guy creeps me out" - everything you have told about him after that has confirmed why I had that feeling. You are making excuse after excuse for him - probably because it feels really nice to have someone interested if you are not very confident in yourself.

The guy is creepy! CREEPY! That sums up my overall impression - and it has only changed for the worse the more you tell about him.

I dont wanna be the b**** here, but you are asking for our honest opinion. And NO way am I gonna help you make up excuses for why he would "accidentally" lie to you etc.

You asked about shopping - Ione gave a good answer to that one



Something completely different: My guy was here today and yesterday We had a wonderful time. I picked him up at the trainstation yesterday and he had bought me a big bunch of flowers - roses, tulips and carnations. We went out for indian food, then went to my place to drink red wine, laugh and talk all evening and go to bed early
We woke up early too, stayed in bed for as long as we could excuse but eventually needed breakfast
After that he suggested to take me shopping for a winter coat for me So we spent most of the day looking for a coat for me. He even insisted to pay half when i found one. I never did find one that I liked though. We went for lunch and coffee in the afternoon and eventually I had to put him on a train home. Awww what a weekend :

[guestmama9915]

Yay Seie!! Sounds lovely.

Anne, I totally agree with others... little lies are BAD NEWS! I think you should stop seeing this guy.

I have decided to only date one person. Unfortunately, one person I'm dating has gotten a bit attached, despite knowing I was not looking to rush into anything. So he'll be stopping by later and I need to break it to him.

[emma_goldman]

wow, goosebumps here!

I'm just coming out of an abusive relationship, too. And the red flags flying around are bigger than the ones I ignored with my STBX. And when we got together, I was feeling like "damaged goods" and desperate thinking it was my last chance to have a family... not a good place to start a relationship from.

On a nice note, BF and I are having a FUN weekend! BF is SO decent and fun and honest and forthright. I feel so honored.

It's so fun to read about your weekend, Seie, it sounds dreamy...

I'm sending light and love out, ya'all!

[JohnnysGirl]

The aftermath of getting out of an abusive marriage is so real to me every day, every night, and I am hanging in there by a thread at some moments. It's hard for me to read Anne2008's posts and not feel very strongly that I would want her to benefit from the BTDT perspective that I, and other formerly-abused women on this board, have suffered. But, she can, of course, post here about anything she wishes to get support about.

[meemee]

Originally Posted by Anne2008

The highlighted part, that's definately how I feel. Like Im in a hurry to be with someone long-term, so im willing to over-look things that I wouldn't if I wasn't in a rush.

WOAH

DANGER

DANGER

DANGER

THIS is calling for more heartbreak.

anne you are heading straight for fire. you cannot date with that mindset. you will only hurt yourself and smother your guy (if he IS in fact a good guy)

[Anne2008]

Sorry if I'm annoying people by posting here and not taking all the advice given to me, but I have to do what I feel is right for me aswell. None of you are here with this guy or know exactly what he's like. That's why I'm hesitant to take the advice 100% to heart. odjmama If you don't want to read my posts that's fair enough, but I'm not going to quit posting when I need support from somewhere on this, and I like the ladies here and learning about this whole dating/relationship subject through reading what they are doing with their guys too. Im very new at this and I need that.
But now I kind of feel like I can't post anything bad about him, or anything I want people's opinions on incase Im being annoying.

It's strange because I feel both ways about this guy. Part of me thinks I should break it off right now because Im not sure I can trust him, he has been a bit creepy and everything else you all said I do agree with it partly. The other part of me wants to keep him because I don't know him well enough to be sure of what he's like, he has done/said sweet things, he definately seems to like me, I really want to be in a relationship, the way we met seemed like fate (seriously), and I want to give him the benefit of the doubt until I know him better. Is that so wrong?

I'm not going to let him meet my son or my family, or go to bed with him, or even invite him over to my place. Im just saying I really think I should get to know him better before I break it off and then end up regretting not having tried hard enough to give it a chance. The question is, how much longer do I give it? I'm thinking another month, then deciding for sure.

Seie Glad you're having such a great time with your guy and you got to spend so much time with him over the weekend! Does he get weekends off work normally?

[DanishMom]

Originally Posted by Holland73

I wholeheartedly disgree.

Anne, please continue posting... even if it is about this guy.



Please do not speak for me. I am not upset by Anne's choices. She is an adult and is able to make her own decisions, even if it is a decision I might disagree with.

Regardless of her choices, I will always respond to her posts, with my honest opinion, about what my thoughts are on her topic.

I believe Anne has been grossly underestimated, in regards to her ability to make her own decisions. She is asking these questions for a reason, she knows something feels off. I believe she is more than capable of deciding what is best for her and her son. She has already shown such ability by keeping her boundaries, such as not intro him to her ds, not doing what he wants when he wants it, not integrating her ds in the situation, etc.

ANNE: You have my support (if needed/wanted), regardless of what you decide to do with this man. I do believe this man has demonstrated some very strong warning signs, but my support is not based on your following MY advice/opinions. You are more than capable of figuring this out on your own.

Odjmama: I think it's painful to read about it too having BTDT but I agree with Holland73 that Anne should be able to post here and get support when she needs it - unless the situation gets really bad like DV or bad emotional abuse.

[JohnnysGirl]

Originally Posted by Anne2008

part of me wants to keep him because I don't know him well enough to be sure of what he's like, he has done/said sweet things, he definately seems to like me, I really want to be in a relationship, the way we met seemed like fate (seriously), and I want to give him the benefit of the doubt until I know him better. Is that so wrong?

None of those reasons are good ones. In fact, they are all the wrong reasons to continue a relationship with someone. A chance meeting with someone who then repeatedly alternates between weirding you out and being sweet, who is terribly and immediately interested in YOU, sounds really concerning. Not a great idea to just give him the benefit of the doubt for more weeks or months than you already have done.

[Seie]

Anne we trust that you are able to make decisions for yourself. The reason everyone is a bit on the fence is that your reaction is so typical. It is literally THE classic mistake that everyone of us here who have been in abusive relationships have made. We have given the guy the benefit of the doubt. The problem is that you can keep doing that from now on and forever if you have enough reasons to stay in it. Noone is entirely bad - not abusers either. My ex was a really sweet guy, he was intelligent, pleasent to talk to, had a good job, was loving and kind in the beginning and we literally had a great relationship most of the time. If you are willing to let these things go now it wont be easier as time passes. You will get to know him better, you will become more dependent on him and the good things about him. You will find more things to like about him and you will make more and more excuses for the bad things because you dont want to let go of the good things. It is a CLASSIC pattern. It is the exact reason so many women stay in abusive relationships - even relationships where he beats the crap out of her from time to time. Even that can be excused cause they have a way of being oh so sweet when they are not hitting, lieing, manipulating, shouting etc. I stayed with my abuser for almost 8 years for that exact reason. I kept making excuses for his bad behaviour, for his anger outbursts, for his manipulations etc. If I had only taken the very very small things seriously to begin with. If only I had not made those exact excuses you are making. If only I had listened to my gut when I first experienced his rage, when I first started doubting my own judgement, when I first started telling my parents and others that "he really didnt mean it that bad, he really is a good guy if you only knew all the good things about him"
The reason we are being on your back like this is - we are seeing you make the exact mistakes that led us into abusive relationships to begin with, and its very frustrating to watch. Please ask yourself what it will take for you to end the relationship. What will you need to see, to realise that this is unhealthy? The reason I am asking this is - these things tend to only get worse, but it can be very subtle. You are letting him get away with lieing already. What will you let him get away with next? Try to make it very clear for yourself what your personal boundary is, and - write it down to yourself if that helps - once he breaks that boundary, stop making excuses. You need to be very clear with him already now. Tell him straight out that you have caught him lieing to you, and that you will not be lied to again. Dont let these things go. POint them out to him when you see it and put your foot down. If you make sure to guard your boundaries there is no harm in getting to know him better, just make sure to make it very clear with him what you will tolerate and what you wont tolerate kwim.
I really hope the best for you..