20/20 tonight! - Page 3

[Norasmomma]

the dolls

None of the stuff seemed that extreme-home birth, uc, the nursing of the 2.5 y/o twins.

I have actually witnessed a woman with one of those creepy dolls. She lives in the town I do(which is small). She's married, has real kids and for awhile a couple years ago was walking around town with what I first though was a real baby. I thought she was baby sitting or something. It ended up being one of those weird dolls. I saw her at our farmer's market with her daughter and thought oh it must be the kids doll or something.

Here's the weird part, when my DD was born I went to the market with my friend and my DD who was 2 weeks old at the time. She came up to me and said, "look our babies are the same size." WTF?!! Our babies? Mine is a baby, her's is a doll. WEIRD. I just looked at her and said, "my baby is not a doll." This woman is extremely weird. I tried not be judgemental, but geez, comparing my living, breathing child to a doll was just freakin bizarre.

I have to say for me I just could never nurse an older child, but if you want to that's fine. I had a hard enough time getting to 18 months with my DD due to extremely horrid hormonal issues with me resulting is debilitating migraines. My body got so confused with all the hormones that I almost could not care for her well at times because I was so sick from my migraines.

[studentmama]

I caught parts of it, but I was jsut so afraid to watch it, I couldn't watch the whole thing. Maybe that's ebcause earlier in the day I caught a few minutes of The Doctors(:Puke) and they were also discussing homebirth and it started out fine, they talked to a mom who had a home birth and loved it, showed some of the video and it was great. Then they go back to the doctor and she goes on about how that was a great outcome, but so many scray thinkgs could have happen, and then the whole, homebirth is so terrible routine started.

[konamama]

in the midst of watching it - overall so far they are doing an OK job...

I know one of the orgasmic birth ladies, amber in hawaii, funny.

i nursed dd for 5.4 years and don't know anyone else irl who nursed that long and that was about my limit age wise, she was just getting so big :-)

the "real babies" was just creepy.

now watching the surrogate part - interesting. i can't see using my own eggs though.

we had dd at home (my mom also had me at home) and many of my friends in my town do as well but not my friends from HS and College... but we ahd a great, well trained and very experienced midwife and I can't see doing it any other way, but my parents did an unplanned unassisted birth... when it comes down to it your birth is your birth and everyone should do what feels right for them. just watched that segment and it was what i figured it would be... i saw that home birth documentary and it was worth seeing.

[ShwarmaQueen]

Originally Posted by konamama

i can't see using my own eggs though.

Me either. I also don't see how she ended up 'giving up' the baby that was not the sperm donors (ended up being her boyfriend's DNA). That's insane for someone who "loves" her children so much. I won't say anymore. :

[imalego]

I didn't catch the show(we don't have TV), but I think calling the whole thing "extreme mothering" is a little well, extreme. I, personally, don't think there's anything extreme about being in control of your own birth in your own home, or in providing the best nutrition possible for your child.

[Gendenwitha]

Let me clarify what I said about the woman with the dolls. It's not that I necessarily think that she's the picture of mental health. What I was pointing out is that whatever mental health issues she has, the dolls seem to be helping her deal in a positive way. Her need for attention and inability to get that attention through forming relationships more similar to most people does indicate she has some issues.

However... my mother had Munchhausen's and would deliberately sabotage her health in order to get attention. Some people act out sexually or go to bars or invite drama and crises into their life to be solved by others. By comparison, this seems to be a harmless way for her to get her needs met.

[konamama]

i agree that the title is a bit off and to lump in the dolls with the other birth/mothering issues is a bit off as well...

[mandib50]

unfortunately i only caught the end of the very first bit, the extended breastfeeding segment and the reborns. i thought including reborns into a show about "extreme" mothering was a little bit odd, taking care of a doll is not mothering

i thought the segment on extended breastfeeding was great! maybe because it's been a while since i last nursed my last child but it brought back a lot of wonderful memories. i don't know, i thought the woman doing the interview seemed open enough to the whole idea, even if she was somewhat shocked by it. and of course, we all know the psychologist is wrong i loved that the kids all had such great memories about nursing.

[MamaRose74]

Fortunately I did get to see the entire show and I really don't see why they were calling it "extreme" either? More and more women are making informed decisions and are breaking out of what society is telling us to do and doing what we know to be right for ourselves as individuals.
As for the "rebirth dolls", that is a bit sad. It sounded as if "some" of those women do it for attention that they are lacking in their own lives.
As for the English lady selling her own children (since she is using her own eggs), I don't believe that's what you would call true surrogacy...I could be wrong?
I'm just glad it wasn't as biased as I thought they would...as far as their portrayment of home birthing and extended bf'ing to be. It was cool that they covered "The Business of Birthing" and actually had Ricki Lake herself interviewed.

[Mommy StormRaven]

Originally Posted by mandib50

the reborns. i thought including reborns into a show about "extreme" mothering was a little bit odd, taking care of a doll is not mothering

No, it isn't "mothering" in our view but to the women that do this in a very real sense it is - FOR THEM - which I think is why it was lumped in.

as an example - the woman that created the dolls did so after several miscarriages. For her this is how she can mother seeing no other way to so it does feel that "childless" void for her.

Not agreeing with it at all but for the women that do this they indeed (at least in their mind) mother these dolls.

JMO

[samstress]

i would have preferred the reborn and surrogacy stories be cut and there be more time for the other three segments.

i agree that the "extreme" title was unfortunate (the only extreme story, imo, was the one about the reborns).

as for the woman who was the focus of the reborn story, the thing that most bothered me about her was when deborah roberts asked her "why not adopt". her response, "...it is extremely expensive and you have to fly overseas..." neither of which is true. this woman doesn't want to be a mother, she wants to have a baby. big difference! let's just say i'm glad she's "mothering" and inanimate object.

[queenjane]

Originally Posted by MamaRose74

As for the English lady selling her own children (since she is using her own eggs), I don't believe that's what you would call true surrogacy...I could be wrong.

Yes you are wrong. There are several types of surrogacy, this woman was the type that uses her own egg and the intended father's sperm (i'm not that up on current terms but this is "traditional" surrogacy)...the Baby M case of ages ago, same situation. Its alot easier and cheaper for the surrogate to use her own egg, and i imagine years ago the science wasnt quite there to make using another egg very successful. Many surrogates today are "gestational" surrogates, they use either the intended mother's egg, implanted into the surrogate after being fertilized with intended father's sperm...or sometimes a donor egg is used. A child could effectively end up with five "parents": surrogate carrier, egg donor, sperm donor, and then the parents raising the child. It can get complicated.

I think some people would be a little offended at calling this "selling" her children. There are many surrogates in this world, some get paid, some donate their services. I think in most cases the women involved have a true desire to help infertile couples have children. And in the case of the baby that ended up being her boyfriends....well, she was irresponsible, IMO, at having "protected" sex (apparently not THAT protected) rather than abstaining...but she never intended to raise that baby, the other parents had apparently had him for awhile, and in the end wanted to raise him...i'm not sure what the issue is. It sounded to me like she was doing this apart from any agency or lawyer (the "at home" inseminations and all that)...and i think when you just wing it like that, you open yourself up to all sorts of issues, legal loopholes, etc, for all parties involved.

I missed the reborn dolls and most of the EBFing segment, but i was confused about the homebirth one.....they kept calling it "unassisted" but i would imagine true UC (where no midwife or other "professional" is present) is a pretty small percentage of all homebirths. I was sitting there thinking "Hmmm....i had a homebirth in 1996....this is considered some new idea??" I thought homebirth had gone practically mainstream, kinda like not vaxing is pretty well accepted as one option nowadays. I was happy to see Rikki Lake though!


Katherine

[CallMeKelly]

In Nebraska assisted homebirths are still illegal... you can UC but not have a CNM there... basically the obgyns have a monopoly going and put pressure on the state to protect it in spite of all the stats that show it is no more dangerous for uncomplicated pregnancy. They'd rather a homebirth minded mother be denied access to midwives than face a possible decrease in hospital births http://lincolnjournalstar.com/articl...3992201219.txt This is one of the reasons I am happy to see any publicity on homebirthing in a positive light.

[rivkah]

Just watched part of the segment on the dolls, since everyone was commenting. I really wished I hadn't. I seriously think I may have nightmares now. Anyone else ever seen a bad horror film about dolls that come alive? Or how about that Twilight Zone? I feel really sorry for those women. It is just sad.

[riverside knitter]

I also found the "extreme" label a bit much and was a bit perplexed at the combination of segments. I really would have liked to seen more information on the benefits of extended breastfeeding, and actually would have liked to see more time spent on less extreme breastfeeding. IMO, it would have been nice if 20/20 had made an effort to normalize breastfeeding beyond infancy and focused less on the extremes, though that would defeat the purpose of the show's title.

Now the dolls were just bizarre. I used to act the same way with my cabbage patch dolls... but I was 8.

[Mommy StormRaven]

Originally Posted by CallMeKelly

In Nebraska assisted homebirths are still illegal... you can UC but not have a CNM there... basically the obgyns have a monopoly going and put pressure on the state to protect it in spite of all the stats that show it is no more dangerous for uncomplicated pregnancy. They'd rather a homebirth minded mother be denied access to midwives than face a possible decrease in hospital births http://lincolnjournalstar.com/articl...3992201219.txt This is one of the reasons I am happy to see any publicity on homebirthing in a positive light.

Same here in KY

[katie9143]

Originally Posted by Amila

Good except for that one (male) doctor who said its a mother's job to "work herself out of a job" meaning weaning early : because babies shouldn't be able to run to their mommies for comfort past a certain age.

what a dip...

Originally Posted by ShwarmaQueen

Was that the babydoll part? "Rebirths" are what they were called. That was not extreme mothering really, it is a quirky hobby if anything. Having a cute babydoll is nothing compared to having a real one (hence "mothering" it).

i felt really bad for the lady that makes these. she started her business after she was unable to conceive. the lady that did it for attention made e feel like i was glad she used a doll rather than an actual child as an attention getter for herself

Originally Posted by ShwarmaQueen

The psychologist was a quack. Like a child isn't going to learn how to self-soothe if he's EBF? The first thing that came to my mind was that he probably didn't ever see a BF mom/child (past the first few weeks) and that I bet he believes in CIO.

or....he could be like my dh and have a bfing wife and be EXTREMELY jealous of the attention and bond....

Originally Posted by MusicianDad

When the introduction said I'd be shocked by some of the stuff there I thought "Like to see you try! I hang out on MDC!"

haha...thats what i told my mom when she called me into the livingroom on fri to watch it with her.

i really had an issue with the surrogate lady that conducted "private in-home sessions" it just gave me a little sick to my stomach feeling. but thats just me. have no problem with surrogacy in its traditional sense though....dont get me wrong.

[MusicianDad]

Originally Posted by katie9143

i really had an issue with the surrogate lady that conducted "private in-home sessions" it just gave me a little sick to my stomach feeling. but thats just me. have no problem with surrogacy in its traditional sense though....dont get me wrong.

Try not to get you wrong. But I do have to ask, since your not the only person who has mentioned that the woman seemed to be an inappropriate surrogate. But why is it an uncomfortable idea? That's why DS is here, at home with a cervical cap. Its cheaper, easier and in many cases safer since you eliminate the possibility of a bad side effect from fertility drugs.

[queenjane]

Originally Posted by MusicianDad

Try not to get you wrong. But I do have to ask, since your not the only person who has mentioned that the woman seemed to be an inappropriate surrogate. But why is it an uncomfortable idea? That's why DS is here, at home with a cervical cap. Its cheaper, easier and in many cases safer since you eliminate the possibility of a bad side effect from fertility drugs.

The only thing i am worried about(i know your question wasnt directed at me)...is that she didnt seem particularly....professional...if it were one time, between this woman and a couple she wanted to help, ok fine...but as it seems like she is touting herself as a professional surrogate, this is a job of sorts for her...i wonder if there are legal contracts? Medical testing? Counseling? I can give her the benefit of the doubt and say yes, but it wasnt really presented that way...and the flip way she talked about the one baby that turned out to be her boyfriend's...i know mistakes can happen, even if you are using an agency...but if i were being paid to carry another couple's baby i'd be damned sure to refrain from having sex that week yknow? I'd probably be so paranoid i wouldnt have sex that whole month, just to be sure! But her attitude was more "well, i will take him back, or you can keep him, whatever you want, sorry!" and it sounded like she was refusing to return the surrogate fee.

But i get that when you add in agencies and lawyers and clinics and all that you are radically increasing the fee and putting the option outside of most peoples reach. It just didnt sound to me that there were that many safeguards for the parties involved, which is a concern. Could have been editing though.


Katherine

[CanidFL]

Originally Posted by BellaLuna Rayne

Is it just me or did the last segment equate home birth with unassisted birth?

Yes. If I was confused while watching it, there is no way the average person would get it. That really bothered me because again, people equate birth at home as irresponsible.

Originally Posted by BellaLuna Rayne

The segment was definitely fast paced and I really feel like they used Abby Epstein's birth as an "aha! told ya so" moment. They didn't follow it up with saying "yeah, things go wrong and we handled it BUT, for the majority of low risk normal births home birth is where its at." .

Yep. They made her birth seem like the reason why you shouldn't homebirth.

Originally Posted by queenjane

But her attitude was more "well, i will take him back, or you can keep him, whatever you want, sorry!" and it sounded like she was refusing to return the surrogate fee.

I agree with this. She came off very non chalant and rubbed me the wrong way. I didn't get a good vibe from her at all. I wonder if she has contracts?