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My response to the 20/20 segment--long post  

post #1 of 22
Thread Starter 
We normally don't watch TV particularly with my daughter, but my father called last night to tell me of a preview he saw of the 20/20 segment on full-term breastfeeding, as he knows we plan to let my daughter self-wean (I nursed until I self-weaned at 18 months). So later, there I was sitting on the couch nursing my 10-month-old daughter who has 8 teeth and sweetly asks "meh? meh?" when she wants to nurse...

As we were watching the segment, my husband and I had to laugh. He joked to the baby, "that's it, talkie toothie, no more nursing, you have to learn to self-soothe, and next week, you have to start sleeping in your crib, and the week after that, don't expect us to get you food from the kitchen, you have to start doing it yourself and learn to be independent" She popped off the breast, smiled and said "meh!"

So this morning I added my comment to their site.

"As a physician, I found the entire segment ridiculous. To accuse a mother who is nurturing her child in the most natural way possible essentially of abuse or at best of a misguided parenting style that will eventually land her child on a therapist's chair is sad and distorted. The psychologist who was featured on the show stated his personal opinion "I think a child really needs to learn to develop the capacity to soothe oneself, the capacity to tolerate frustration" and that breatfeeding thwarts that. There is absolutely zero research to support his personal opinion, but there is much research, at least at younger ages, that directly opposes his opinion. His concern, that a child learn to self-soothe is a valid and appropriate one, but I am sure that these mothers featured do soothe their children in other ways, and most mothers of a two-, six-, or eight-year-old would not turn away from a child who is hurt and say "sorry, but you have to learn to soothe yourself." Other mothers meet their child's need for attachment in another way besides breastfeeding quite often.

The best parents I have seen, with the most confident and secure children, are those who do meet their children's need for comfort and security. Our culture is distorted in that from the earliest ages we have an obsession with a child learning to self-soothe (placing our children in cribs to cry it out alone, raising their levels of stress hormones which have been found to have a negative effect on brain development, breastfeeding on demand, etc.) and parents who allow themselves to be their child's primary attachment objects are accused of selfishness or bad parenting.These children are at a disadvantage not because of the nurturing parenting style their mothers perform and their fathers support, but because of a society that has major issues with breasts being used by children for nutrition and comfort.

There is no evidence whatsoever that there is an age at which human breastmilk is no longer nutritionally or immunologically a valid food substance as a part of a comlementary diet. My concern for these children who are weaning themselves furthur along in childhood than is typical in our culture is not their development, which in the mammalian world is extremely age-appropriate but the horrible judgment that our society as a whole grants them. The peope who think that these children are such an anomaly even outside our country because the average age of weaning world-wide is 4 should do some basic mathematics. For all the infants in our country and others who are weaned at the ripe old age of 2 days or 2 weeks, or 2 months or even 6 months, there has to be a child nursed PAST four years old in order for the average age of weaning world-wide to be four."
post #2 of 22
excellent post!
post #3 of 22
great comment! So well put.
post #4 of 22
Just totally awesome .
post #5 of 22
Nicely put.

the only thing that stood out to me as unclear was this passage

Quote:
Our culture is distorted in that from the earliest ages we have an obsession with a child learning to self-soothe (placing our children in cribs to cry it out alone, raising their levels of stress hormones which have been found to have a negative effect on brain development, breastfeeding on demand, etc.)
because it is not clear whether you meant breastfeeding on demand was an example of parent's obsession with teaching children to self-soothe, or if you meant that the CIO method interferes with breastfeeding on demand.
post #6 of 22
Great response :-) You said exactly what I was feeling about their "expert" commentary on the issue.
post #7 of 22
Great letter!
post #8 of 22
I'm glad someone else was disappointed in that segement. In between segments the pictures of women with who were breastfeeding were breastfeeding 18 to 30 month olds (not 6 or 9 year olds). That is not even really extended breast feeding. The whole show was pretty disappointing.
post #9 of 22
Very well said! Please update us if/when you receive a response.
post #10 of 22
I thought your response was absolutely wonderful except for one part. There is no evidence that "the average age of weaning is 4 years old". This myth is so wide-spread in the lactivist world. I would suggest that we all refrain from using this in arguments. Most people don't believe it and they are right...consequently, it negatively affects our credibility.

Myth Busting: Average Age of Weaning 4.5 years

"It is meaningless, statistically, to speak of an average age of weaning worldwide, as so many children never nurse at all, or their mothers give up in the first few days, or at six weeks when they go back to work. It is true that there are still many societies in the world where children are routinely breastfed until the age of four or five years or older, and even in the United States, some children are nursed for this long and longer. In societies where children are allowed to nurse "as long as they want" they usually self-wean, with no arguments or emotional trauma, between 3 and 4 years of age. This interest also stemmed from the realization that other animals have "natural" ages of weaning, around 8 weeks for dogs, 8-12 months for horses, etc. Presumably these animals don't have cultural beliefs about when it would be appropriate."
http://www.kathydettwyler.org/detwean.html
post #11 of 22
*gonna be all alone here*
I liked the show (I dvr'd it and wached it this morning). I think the reporters asked questions that a lot of people would ask and they did it nicely. The moms didn't seem disrespected at all. I wouldn't be offended if I were asked the same things. I would imagine that most people who aren't familiar with "extended breastfeeding" have a lot of the same questions and I think they said it a lot better than some of the public would. How many times have we seen on the breastfeeding boards someone saying they were told it was disgusting to nurse an actual baby, nevermind a toddler or child?
When profiling the family (forgot their last name but they have 3 kids- 12, 9 and 6 with the 6 yr old still nursing) they even said that the kids were happy and well adjusted and the kids had fond memories of nursing.
I think they had to have anti breastfeeding opinions on or it wouldn't have been much of an investigative reporting piece.
post #12 of 22
UI didn't see the segment but I hope to catch it next time. My mil works for cfs & she made a good point when saying that because of confidentiality we could not hear the other side of the story. She said CPS would only investigate reports if the child was reported to be in danger. She is biased of course because in her line she does see a lot of bad parenting choices. Having said that, she & I don't see eye to eye on the fact that my 4 year old still nurses. So we often discuss this very thing. She is very into the societal belief that it is necessary to learn to self sooth. & while I wouldn't classify her as a supporter pa CIO...she has noted to me that she does think its okay for a baby to cry a "little" & learn to self sooth. I won't go into all my theories on why think she believes what she does...

And about the natural age of weaning...you make an excellent point. Perhaps it would be better to say that we as lactavists are accepting of the theory of 4 years being an "average" age. Not that it IS...but it is what we subscribe to as to the limited studies from which we can pull from. Opinions?
post #13 of 22
Re: the average age of weaning- 20/20 actually said that the world wide average age of weaning was 4, too. Maybe there's a lactivist writer if it's only spread in the lativist world LOL
About CPS- is it possible that they investigated because they got a call saying something inappropriate was going on but it went nowhere?
post #14 of 22
GREAT response!!

I missed it. I didn't know about it till I read it on someone's facebook, by then it was too late...I blame her.
post #15 of 22
Beru, I went back & read the blog you posted & even more fascinating than the blog was the conversation it sparked in the comments. I encourage everyone to check it out. There are great points made.
post #16 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by motherearthdancer View Post
And about the natural age of weaning...you make an excellent point. Perhaps it would be better to say that we as lactavists are accepting of the theory of 4 years being an "average" age. Not that it IS...but it is what we subscribe to as to the limited studies from which we can pull from. Opinions?
Well, Dettwyler says it's not helpful to use "average" when you consider all the ff or prematurely weaned babies. So if you make it clear that you are talking about naturally weaned babies (considering that below 18 months is not selfweaning but nursing strikes, so not including them either) four seems like a fair number. But I think you are up against human nature in that the people you talk to are going to extrapolate an average from any range of numbers you tell them, whether you express it that way or not.
post #17 of 22
Maybe instead of saying "the average age of weaning", you could say "the biologically normal duration of full-term breastfeeding is 4 years or more." Kind of like saying the "the typical duration of getation is 40 weeks or more."
post #18 of 22
just wanted to point out to those of you who missed it that if you google "20/20 extended breastfeeding" a link comes up where you can see the 8-minute segment covering it. There was a mama on there from my area (virginia beach) I seriously want to email her or meet her so i can tell her how much i respect her for putting herself out there like that. but....I digress.
Anyway, for you all that missed it....I finally got to watch it at work today while I wrote our kids' new 3rd quarter schedules lol.


actually, here's a link: http://abcnews.go.com/Video/playerIndex?id=6569743
post #19 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by MaryJaneLouise View Post
Maybe instead of saying "the average age of weaning", you could say "the biologically normal duration of full-term breastfeeding is 4 years or more."
How do we KNOW this though? Where is the data? That's the point that's being made.

It seems like it is a number we have chosen to believe is the truth, without its ever having been substantiated.

Dettwyler herself says that a review of 64 traditional studies before the 1940's put the median duration of breastfeeding at about 2.8 years. That sounds about right to me, considering my own experiences with extended BF and all the mamas I know personally and have heard about who do extended BF.

Regarding the 20/20 piece quoting the 4 years of age number, I'm sure they probably did their research on the web where they picked that number up from a lactavist website.
post #20 of 22
Now we're really going ot, but yes, the world wide average age of weaning is just over 2 years. However, if you go back a hundred fifty years or so, I think it would have been fourish. It's still irrelevant. The biological norm is not the same as the societal norm.

I like the letter.
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Mothering › Forums › Breastfeeding › Lactivism › My response to the 20/20 segment--long post