How to decide? KD or sperm bank?

[rayo de sol]

DP and I can't decide whether a known donor or a sperm bank would be better for us.

How did others decide? What were the pros and cons of each for you?

[katharinerose]

We kind of split the difference, by using a KD through a bank. We really wanted a friend of ours to be our KD - we used to joke that he was a male version of my DW. And we like the idea that when our child is old enough, they will be able to know their bio-father. I suppose if our friend had said no, we would've thought about anonymous donors more, but there's only so much you can tell about a person from a questionnaire. And if I'm putting someone's bodily secretions in my body, I'd rather it be a person I know I like!

The biggest concerns with a KD for my wife were health and safety - disease screening and parental rights. My biggest concerns were logistical (KD lives in a distant state). So we had him come and "deposit" at the sperm bank near us as a designated donor, so we're the only ones with access to his sperm. They did all the testing, and by going through the bank, he automatically waives any parental rights. And since the bank is less than an hour from us, we can just pick up the sperm ourselves and not have to have it shipped.

The downsides to all this are 1) it is pricey (although not necessarily pricier than buying anonymous depending on how long it takes) and 2) you're dealing with frozen sperm. With fresh, it lives longer and you get more of it, often for little to no money.

[lexbeach]

When we were first making the decision . . . 7 years ago now . . . we really didn't know any potential KDs. I think we could have come up with at least a short list if dw had been more interested in pursuing that plan, but at the time she was pretty adamantly opposed. She felt threatened by the idea as the non-gestational parent. I really just wanted to get pregnant and didn't care that much. Using sperm from the bank was very easy, and since we were lucky enough to get pregnant on the first try, it wasn't that expensive either.

After the kids were born, and as they've gotten older, we've both felt like we wished we had explored the options of using a KD more. I think that, when it works out well, that is probably the fairest/best way to do it for the kids. We ended up sticking with our same anonymous donor for our second and third pregnancies, but by the third pregnancy we only had one vial to try with, and if we hadn't been successful, we were hoping to use a KD instead.

I know several families who have used KDs, and for the most part it's all gone very smoothly for them. Often (though not always), they get pregnant more easily (with fresh sperm and multiple insems. per cycle), and it's usually quite a bit more affordable. The one family we know IRL who feel like things went "awry" feel that way because their KD disappeared and is not in contact with them at this point (and did not want to help them ttc #2). One other family has had some issues with their KD's girlfriend (who came into the picture after the fact), and with his extended family (paternal grandparents who send LOTS of presents and call on the phone a lot), but their kid is psyched to know his "dad" (he chooses to call him "dad"), and it looks like a pretty sweet set up from my POV.

I'd break it down like this:

Pros of Sperm Bank:
- easy access to sperm
- no emotional hassle in the beginning
- ability to be very choosy about physical characteristics/ethnicity
- potential to buy extra sperm to use for a second/third pregnancy
- donors are screened for STDs and some genetic diseases
- ability to connect with other families who have used the same donor (could be a pro or a con)
- ability to choose a donor with good sperm numbers (depending on the bank)

Cons of Sperm Bank:
- $$$
- frozen sperm does not live as long, timing of insems becomes critical
- no/limited ability for offspring to meet the donor one day (depending on bank and type of donor)
- more emotionally difficult for the kids later on
- may not be able to use the same donor for a second/third pregnancy (if they run out, donor leaves the bank, etc.).
- there may be many other children with the same donor out there (some people don't like this idea)

Pros of KD:
- free/cheap (depending on what testing you choose to do/travel needed)
- you know the guy
- fresh sperm is generally easier to get pregnant with
- no need to be as on top of the timing of insems.
- potential for donor to be a part of the child's life from the start
- high likelihood of being able to conceive again with the same donor in the future
- knowing that there aren't dozens of families using your same donor


Cons of KD:
- potentially difficult issues to talk through before you can get started
- having to ask someone if he'll be your KD/dealing with rejection/working out a contract
- relying on KD to follow through with being there when you need the sperm, not being able to just order it.
- worry about how the donor will feel after the birth/legal issues
- the potential for the donor to refuse to help out with a future second pregnancy
- having to deal with std/genetic disease testing (or choosing not to, and taking more of a risk than you would with a sperm bank)
- no knowledge of what the donor's sperm numbers are (without testing)

That's all I can think of for right now, but I'm sure there are many more things for each list.

HTH!

Lex

[rayo de sol]

Thank you both, katherinerose and lexbeach, for such thoughtful and detailed replies. Lexbeach, what do you mean when you say it's better emotionally for children to have a KD? There's so much to think about.

Anyone else?

Does anyone have any websites to recommend that might have information about the legal worries of using a KD?

Does anyone recommend any books about lesbians going through this journey?



The sperm dilemma.

My worries about a KD (who could possibly be one of DP's brothers or a friend):

-That he'll change his mind and succeed in getting partial custody of our child.
-That he'll disagree with our unorthodox parenting practices such as extended breastfeeding, non-circumcision, or homeschooling.
-That he'll want some sort of visitation or otherwise interfere with our family unit. (I would want him to be nothing more than a long-distance uncle who we might see a couple times a year during family visits.)

My worries about the Sperm Bank:

-That they'll discover that there's some now-unknown long-term health consequence to the child from being conceived with frozen sperm. (Don't hit me! I know there's no evidence that children conceived from frozen sperm are any less healthy. I'm just a worrier. I worry they'll discover this at some point in the future. I'm an anxious, high-strung sort of person, so bear with me. I guess I just don't understand how sperm works. How can it possibly be frozen yet still viable? Any biologists here?)

[lexbeach]

Originally Posted by rayo de sol

T Lexbeach, what do you mean when you say it's better emotionally for children to have a KD?

From keeping an eye on the children-of-donor-sperm-conception movement, I have picked up on the fact that kids' whose parents used an anonymous donor often grow up to be less pleased about it. They want to know who their biological "father" is. I think these are issues that don't typically come up until the teenage years (my own children have yet to care at all about the fact that we used an anonymous donor), but that anyone who uses a sperm bank should be prepared for. I'm sure there must be some issues for kids with known donors as well, but there's much less mystery, and many more of the questions can be answered. The child can talk to the donor about his choices instead of just wondering.

I, too, think it's rather miraculous that sperm can be frozen and then brought back to life . . . but I don't worry about long-term health consequences. I worry about bringing children onto this planet at this point in time and what that will mean for their future health/happiness, but I don't worry about negative health consequences due to the fact that half of their genetic material was frozen for a period of time. I think it's much more likely that something like growing up with all of this wireless internet and cellphone energy whizzing around will prove to be detrimental. Frozen sperm has been studied fairly well. The only health issue I could see being concerned about would be the potential for the donor to lie about genetic disorders and pass them onto the offspring. But many KDs are not tested for things the way that anonymous donors are, so I think that that's probably a risk either way.

Lex

[megan sacha]

Using a KD definitely could be riskier but in my opinion it has so many advantages in the long run, especially for your child.

We have had a great KD experience. We choose to go this route because it was important to us that our child have access to their donor and the cost was a factor too I guess, though not a big one.

Your worries are valid and I would highly recommend a contract if you use a KD to help sort out all of these issues and expectations in a formal way from the get-go. This was important in our situation since we were all feeling warm and fuzzy...the lawyers made it feel very real.

[rayo de sol]

Originally Posted by lexbeach

They want to know who their biological "father" is. I think these are issues that don't typically come up until the teenage years (my own children have yet to care at all about the fact that we used an anonymous donor), but that anyone who uses a sperm bank should be prepared for.

Thanks for elaborating, Lex. I can see how the kids would feel that way. Aren't there certain sperm banks, though, that let the kids contact the guy who donated when they turn 18? Although, I guess that doesn't help them if they want to know before they're 18....

[rayo de sol]

Originally Posted by megan sacha

Your worries are valid and I would highly recommend a contract if you use a KD to help sort out all of these issues and expectations in a formal way from the get-go. This was important in our situation since we were all feeling warm and fuzzy...the lawyers made it feel very real.

Thanks for joining in, megan sacha. I hear ya about the contract. Don't worry, I wouldn't go near a KD without a big stack of signed legal documents.

My worry is, do the courts honor these documents?

I could be misinformed, but it seems like the precedent so far is that if the KD changes his mind, the courts take his side and allow him visitation--if not partial custody.

Aaargh! If only there were an easier way to get some sperm!

[megincl]

Originally Posted by rayo de sol

I could be misinformed, but it seems like the precedent so far is that if the KD changes his mind, the courts take his side and allow him visitation--if not partial custody.

Aaargh! If only there were an easier way to get some sperm!

I hear you on the ease of sperm wrangling (to borrow papa's term from other posts....). I used to be so frustrated, angry, righteous about that. Ugh.

In terms of the legalities, our lawyer told us the donor agreement isn't legally binding, but it can be used to show intent. THe key really is to get the donor to sign away his parental rights. I think the wait is usually about six months for that. It's necessary for a second parent adoption and also for legal security no matter. If the donor changes his mind before then, well.....I would say that if you have a great donor who you REALLY has out everything with, each talk to lawyers, spend your own time thinking about it, talking to friends, family, what have you, then I think the likelihood is super duper slim he'd change his mind. If you really worry that he might, then I don't think he's a good option as a donor.

We have a lovely, fabulous known donor. The relationship among our little family has changed over time, but it is rich and wonderful, and I'm SO glad he's a part of our son's life. That being said, he offered to be a donor for us, did lots of soul-searching about it, and really feels that one of his purposes is to help us make a family. We are so lucky! :

If it's the right match, I think part of you just knows.

Good luck,
megin

[smartycat]

I've been meaning to chime in on this thread for a while, so here goes...

We struggled for a while about the KD vs annonymous frozen issue for a while. The only KD we ever considered was my brother. I very much wanted a biological connection to the baby. In the end, DP was not comfortable enough with the idea and my brother's kids are very problematic... and while we blame all that on the ex-wife... you never know if maybe he contributed genetically to that.

The child "knowing" the donor was somewhat important to us and is why we chose to go througy Xytex which as a large selection of willing to be known donors.

In the end, I am glad that we went with annonymous frozen. I will admit that I am a little threatened as the non bio parent of the idea of a KD somewhere in my child's life. Legally, it is very cut and dry. I just couldn't feel more like this is my child than if I had actually made the sperm myself.

As to the issue about the child having resentment over knowing the donor or not... I think a lot of that has to do with secrecy. If you want to dive head first in to this issue, read the Yahoo group for the Donor Sibling Registry. There are many very bitter adults that post there but all of them were lied to as children. I'm glad I read over there for a while as it did make me see that side of things, but after a while, I just had to stop and trust in what we were doing. We plan on being very up front with our baby from the moment he is born. I know several friends who were adopted and none of them have ever thought about seeking out their birth parents. I also have two very close college friends who have adopted children that will be very close in age to our LO and I feel that will give our child an outlet to discuss "non bio" issues. My friends have also been a great help to me to sort out my "non bio" issues.

Good Luck with whatever you decide. We are very early in, but are very happy with our annonymous frozen decision.

[rayo de sol]

Originally Posted by megincl

In terms of the legalities, our lawyer told us the donor agreement isn't legally binding, but it can be used to show intent. THe key really is to get the donor to sign away his parental rights. I think the wait is usually about six months for that. It's necessary for a second parent adoption and also for legal security no matter.

Oh! That's good to know.

So, you're saying that the KD can sign away his parental rights (which is legally binding?), but he can only do it after the baby is 6 months old?

Why does so much time have to elapse? Doesn't a woman giving a baby up for adoption only have 3 days to change her mind?

So, if he signs away his parental rights and then we do a 2nd parent adoption, he can't change his mind? He won't be able to sue for visitation or partial custody?

That would be great because I was worrying that he had 18 long years to change his mind and stake a claim on our child.

[rayo de sol]

Originally Posted by smartycat

Good Luck with whatever you decide. We are very early in, but are very happy with our annonymous frozen decision.

Thanks, smartycat!

It's so hard to decide, so hard to decide....

[rayo de sol]

So, if I want to explore to KD route, my first step would be...?

We've mentioned the idea to DP's brother. He's thinking about it. He was kind of shocked by the idea (maybe because he's sort of young?--early 20s--and he's definitely not ready yet to settle down and start a family). We already know that he's in favor of circumcision and vaccinations, and we are not. It was sort of just a discussion of these things in the abstract, but it worries me that he'll try to get custody if he disagrees with our crunchy child-rearing practices.

What do we do now?

[megincl]

Originally Posted by rayo de sol

So, if I want to explore to KD route, my first step would be...?

We've mentioned the idea to DP's brother. He's thinking about it. He was kind of shocked by the idea (maybe because he's sort of young?--early 20s--and he's definitely not ready yet to settle down and start a family). We already know that he's in favor of circumcision and vaccinations, and we are not. It was sort of just a discussion of these things in the abstract, but it worries me that he'll try to get custody if he disagrees with our crunchy child-rearing practices.

What do we do now?

First off, in answer to your previous question, I believe that once the rights are signed away (and I could be wrong about 6 months, but I also think it could vary by state), then his rights are gone. I'm sure he could "technically" go to court for rights after the fact, but there wouldn't be much ground to stand on at that point.

In terms of the known donor route, I think the first thing is to decide if that's a route that's right for you or possibly right for you. Then come up with a list of possible donors, weighing the pros and cons. I'd then choose the person who you feel most comfortable with on that list and approach him. Some do it over dinner, some in a letter, whatever feels best. But before the approach, be really sure about what you're asking -- is it just for sperm and for no further relationship? For an uncle-type relationship? For sperm for multiple kids? Mention the signing away of rights thing. You may want to save all the details for a second conversation, but you really need to know before diving in, in my opinion.

Finally, as for your partner's brother, I worry a bit that you are already worried about how things might go down the line with him. If you're worried, I would take that as a sign, as convenient as it might be to have him be the donor. That being said, I don't know the ins and outs of your relationship with him, so I certainly can't say anything for sure.

Oh, I'd say also go to a good LGBT family lawyer now. We did that WAY before anything. Get a consultation about the legal side of things. That should put your mind at ease and give you more info.

Good luck!
megin

[carmen358]

Originally Posted by rayo de sol

So, if I want to explore to KD route, my first step would be...?

We've mentioned the idea to DP's brother. He's thinking about it. He was kind of shocked by the idea (maybe because he's sort of young?--early 20s--and he's definitely not ready yet to settle down and start a family). We already know that he's in favor of circumcision and vaccinations, and we are not. It was sort of just a discussion of these things in the abstract, but it worries me that he'll try to get custody if he disagrees with our crunchy child-rearing practices.

What do we do now?

You can build those kinds of details into the contract. Yes, it's not legally binding but as you said in a previous post, it does show intent. We are using a KD and our contract states things as specific as not having a say in naming, parenting practices, medical decisions, etc.

I too have friends who were adopted and the experience really seems to be unique for everyone. I have one friend who has a wonderful relationship with her mother and adopted brothers...but who is deeply hurt by the bio mom that 'abandoned' her. It's also a mix in terms of who goes looking for their bio parents and who doesn't. I have 3 friends that have gone looking and 1 who hasn't. I posted a link on here recently about a legal case in Canada where a child who was conceived using an anonymous donor was taking legal action against the sperm bank for information on their bio father.

I chose a KD (TTC #1 right now) because it was important for me to be able to answer questions that may come up and also for the child to have the opportunity to meet that person if they chose...I didn't want the responsibility of taking that away. However, I know we are incredibly fortunate to have found a KD....I'm sure I would feel different if that process had not been so easy.

[fozziebear]

Originally Posted by rayo de sol

Aren't there certain sperm banks, though, that let the kids contact the guy who donated when they turn 18? Although, I guess that doesn't help them if they want to know before they're 18....

There sure are, and we used one of them -- Pacific Reproductive Services, based in California. (They're reasonably local, so we didn't have to deal with shipping costs.) The term they use is "willing to be known" donors, who agree to at least one meeting with the kid once the kid turns 18.

We didn't have any local KD prospects, and I personally think the "the kid has two parents, astropeep and me" idea is a lot clearer if there isn't a KD in the picture, for what that's worth. I guess as the non-bio mom I feel like the degree to which the kid would think of the donor as "dad" would be the degree to which they didn't think of me as "mom".

[Aliviasmom]

I found this from the new posts board and was just curious.



As a birthmom (placed ds for adoption), I figured I would chime in on a topic that was mentioned.

Originally Posted by rayo de sol

Why does so much time have to elapse? Doesn't a woman giving a baby up for adoption only have 3 days to change her mind?

So, if he signs away his parental rights and then we do a 2nd parent adoption, he can't change his mind? He won't be able to sue for visitation or partial custody?

To the first paragraph: It depends on the state. Some states, bm (birth moms) can sign her rights away in the hospital. In some states, such as mine, I "had to" wait at least 2 weeks. (It ended up being four due to my request and scheduling in the courts.)

Second paragraph: AFAIK, once rights are terminated, they are just that. There is no back-tracking UNLESS it can be proven that the parent was coerced, forced, or mentally incapable of signing legal documents.

Originally Posted by megincl

First off, in answer to your previous question, I believe that once the rights are signed away (and I could be wrong about 6 months, but I also think it could vary by state), then his rights are gone. I'm sure he could "technically" go to court for rights after the fact, but there wouldn't be much ground to stand on at that point.

See above. He would basically have to prove that he was lied to about what TPR (termination of parental rights) MEANS legally, or that he was mentally incapable of signing.

[birthtalk]

A couple of great resources -- in addition to all of the moms' posts here of course - to help with your decision-making process are:

"The New Essential Guide to Lesbian Conception, Pregnancy & Birth" by Stephanie Brill (I've seen it at bookstores, you can also get it on amazon I think)

and

"Mothers and Babies: Lesbians Creating Families" (video) by Birth Talk production. www.birthtalkproductions.com

[indigoscot]

we were going to use a friend of mine, we used to be in a band together and were really close. he moved away around the time i met dp and then got married (to an ex-lesbian). during one of his trips to visit, we asked him if he would be interested. he said he would be honored but wanted to think it through and discuss with his wife - oh and i guess i should mention that i knew his wife before they hooked up. a few weeks later he called to say he would do it and to call him when we were ready to get things moving.

in the meantime we did some research and discovered that home insems are illegal in our state which would have caused major issues with second parent adoption. there are no civil unions/gay marriages in our state either. so we contacted our friend and said we would need him to go through the donor process just like an anon. donor. we were starting to figure out the logistics of that when we found out he and his wife had been trying to get pregnant with no success - and had pretty much been diagnosed with unexplained infertility!!!! so dp and i had a long talk and decided that it would be bad news if i was able to have his biological child when his wife could not. it was a hard decision to make because we were really set on the kd route. when we told him, there were no hard feelings (we told him that we had decided to go to the sperm bank due to the timeline waiting for him to be tested etc...). they have gone down the adoption route and 3 years later are still childless and are now trying to adopt from ethiopia. they visited us for christmas and there was definitely some wistful gazing at our son on his part. i'm not entirely sure he would have given up his parental rights and then dp would not have been able to adopt...

we are very happy with our decision to use anon. donor sperm. the second parent adoption went smoothly and we also have a will stating dp is his legal guardian should anything happen to me.

now, i know not everyone will have the same situation as us but it does bear thinking about.

g

[megincl]

Originally Posted by birthtalk

A couple of great resources -- in addition to all of the moms' posts here of course - to help with your decision-making process are:

"The New Essential Guide to Lesbian Conception, Pregnancy & Birth" by Stephanie Brill (I've seen it at bookstores, you can also get it on amazon I think)

and

"Mothers and Babies: Lesbians Creating Families" (video) by Birth Talk production. www.birthtalkproductions.com

hey! i'm in that video! (is this you, amy?)

be well all,
megin