How to decide? KD or sperm bank? - Page 2

[rayo de sol]

I wanted to recommend two great books I've just read while I'm mulling it all over:

The Ultimate Guide to Pregnancy for Lesbians by Rachel Pepper

The Complete Lesbian & Gay Parenting Guide by Arlene Istar Lev

The the parenting guide book has a lot of good legal recommendations for queer families including filing papers getting Durable Power of Attorney, Health Care Proxy, and Last Will and Testament. We have to do all this crap because we can't legally marry on the federal level.

[Disco Infiltrator]

Originally Posted by rayo de sol

So, if I want to explore to KD route, my first step would be...?

We've mentioned the idea to DP's brother. He's thinking about it. He was kind of shocked by the idea (maybe because he's sort of young?--early 20s--and he's definitely not ready yet to settle down and start a family). We already know that he's in favor of circumcision and vaccinations, and we are not. It was sort of just a discussion of these things in the abstract, but it worries me that he'll try to get custody if he disagrees with our crunchy child-rearing practices.

What do we do now?

We only considered one KD. We sat down and wrote down pros, cons and what our expectations would be from the KD relationship. Then we asked our KD.

Your DPs bro would need to be comfortable with you making decisions he may disagree with, because even if his rights are terminated, he's going to be in the kid's life, which will require letting go of the concept that he has any right over the LO. This requires a lot of trust and maturity, and I'm not saying that he doesn't have any of that, just that he'll need it because a KD relationship can be really intense.

Our KD is anti-circ and we didn't circ, but he would have been okay if we did. He's really really great about boundaries and very clear about DW and I being the parents. He and his BF are uncles to our DS and they're pretty awesome.

I think the KD relationship can be so rewarding, and I'm thrilled to see more and more people making that choice. I love seeing our DS with his Uncle KD and it makes me so happy that we can give our KD & BF that relationship. Good luck.

[rayo de sol]

Originally Posted by katharinerose

So we had him come and "deposit" at the sperm bank near us as a designated donor, so we're the only ones with access to his sperm. They did all the testing, and by going through the bank, he automatically waives any parental rights.

(my emphasis) I'm thinking about this more today. This is an awesome plan. I wonder if there's any sperm bank that would do exactly this but keep the sperm fresh?

I'm so perplexed by the laws...what's so magical about a sperm bank that as soon as they touch sperm, it makes it so that the resulting child can be 100% mine and DP's, but without their magic, the child is still 50% the donor's? I'm assuming the KD signs something at the bank--just like he would sign the apparently legally useless KD contract that I plan on having him sign.

Is there any way to get fresh sperm that's not a legal minefield?

Could I be inseminated with fresh sperm through a clinic? Would that make the child legally NOT the KD's?

[lexbeach]

Usually clinics will only help married, heterosexual couples conceive with fresh sperm. : Even if you have already put some of your known donor's fresh sperm inside you at home. The reason they give is because of the legal risk of inseminating you with disease-carrying sperm. The only way for them to eliminate that risk is to freeze the sperm for 6 months and then test the donor to make sure he is still clean. I understand the logic of it all, but not the double standard (i.e. if it's okay for them to put potentially hazardous sperm inside a straight woman, it should be ok for them to put it inside a queer person too).

I think the key, legally speaking, to using a known donor is using someone who you trust. I have plenty of friends who have used KDs, and none of them has had legal issues. I had an acquaintance in college who was the child of lesbian parents, and who had been conceived with known donor sperm, without any problems. But her sister's donor (different) had tried to get custody of her sister at some point during childhood (after several years, this was before second-parent adoption was an option). Ultimately, he failed.

I have never heard of a story of a KD actually gaining any custody. I think it's incredibly rare.

Lex

[rayo de sol]

Originally Posted by fozziebear

We didn't have any local KD prospects, and I personally think the "the kid has two parents, astropeep and me" idea is a lot clearer if there isn't a KD in the picture, for what that's worth. I guess as the non-bio mom I feel like the degree to which the kid would think of the donor as "dad" would be the degree to which they didn't think of me as "mom".

I totally agree, fozziebear. If we do use a KD, I would never be OK with our child calling the donor "dad" or any variation like "papa" or what have you. (Couldn't calling a donor "dad" set a dangerous legal precedent in case he changes his mind a sues for paternity?) I wouldn't even necessarily want them to have frequent contact. If we use DP's brother, "uncle" will be an acceptable name to call him.

[rayo de sol]

Originally Posted by lexbeach

Usually clinics will only help married, heterosexual couples conceive with fresh sperm. :

Hmmm....fascinating. I wonder what happens in the states (MA and CT) that have legalized gay marriage?

Or do the clinics just get to be homophobic no matter what state they're in and exclude lesbians on a whim?

So, when the clinics do this fresh sperm insemination for straight married couples, does the act of going through the clinic take away the KD's parental rights?

[rayo de sol]

Originally Posted by lexbeach

I understand the logic of it all, but not the double standard (i.e. if it's okay for them to put potentially hazardous sperm inside a straight woman, it should be ok for them to put it inside a queer person too).

Yeah! Gimme some hazardous sperm!

[lexbeach]

Originally Posted by rayo de sol

I totally agree, fozziebear. If we do use a KD, I would never be OK with our child calling the donor "dad" or any variation like "papa" or what have you. (Couldn't calling a donor "dad" set a dangerous legal precedent in case he changes his mind a sues for paternity?) I wouldn't even necessarily want them to have frequent contact. If we use DP's brother, "uncle" will be an acceptable name to call him.

Usually the second-parent adoption is done very soon after the birth. By the time the child is calling anyone anything, there's no longer any potential for legal issues.

Our friend's son decided that he wanted to call his donor "dad," so he does. He sees him about four times a year, and the relationship is very uncle-like. My friend does not have an issue with whatever her son wants to call his donor. I wouldn't either.

Lex

[megincl]

Originally Posted by rayo de sol

Hmmm....fascinating. I wonder what happens in the states (MA and CT) that have legalized gay marriage?

Or do the clinics just get to be homophobic no matter what state they're in and exclude lesbians on a whim?

So, when the clinics do this fresh sperm insemination for straight married couples, does the act of going through the clinic take away the KD's parental rights?

The clinic would only be doing a fresh sperm insemination if it is the sperm of the male in the married couple (het.). They wouldn't insem with an anonymous (or otherwise known) donor's sperm.

Really, pretty much the only way to do fresh involves the donor having to waive legal rights a bit down the road. We used a KD and have had no troubles. I think that if you feel comfortable and "know" that it will work, you'll be fine. If you are hesitant, not sure, worried, etc, I think your safest bet is to go with frozen. I know the conception percentages are better with fresh, but heck, we're about to move onto try 14 or something like that with fresh and still no babe #2 (well, many miscarriages), so you never know!

good luck and be well,
megin

[CrunchySmurf]

I really liked Lex's pros/cons list.

Our preference is for a kd. We want someone that our child can identify as a "real" person who helped us make them, as opposed to a number and piece of paper. We would like for a donor to be peripherally involved in our child's life, someone they feel some attachment to.

That said, we are not dead-set on a kd. While it is our preference, we are working with a very short list of possibles, and if we can't choose someone and work out an agreement soon, we will be fine with using a bank.