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Anyone else still not head down?

post #1 of 20
Thread Starter 
I don't know if I should put this here or in the February thread. I'm due Jan 31, so I'm at 36 weeks.

I got confirmation 2 days ago that I'm still frank breech (head and feet up, bum down). Cord is in a good place, placenta is anterior and to the left, feet are to the right, head is (usually) centered. My next midwife appointment is tomorrow. She mentioned on my last appointment that if I'm still head up, she'd like to do ECV by the end of this comming week. I'm a bit concerned about the disconfort associated with ECV. I'm seeing a new naturopath on Tuesday (who specializes in pre/post natal), but it's just a meet-and-great and I don't know what to expect. I was hoping to try acupuncture or chiropracty first (not a fan of chiro, to be honest) before ECV.

Anyone in a similar boat or have experience with this? I've read through the old threads and done a lot of other reading on flipping a breech. I guess I just want to chat with someone going through this now! TIA.

I should add that I"m pretty sure the LO went transverse (briefly) twice in the last week (the second time being yesterday), but didnt' make it all the way around. I'm still feeling a fair bit of movement, but am also still feeling VERY tight in the belly (have been for well over a month). I'm not sure, but I think I feel the bum dropping on occasion - same feelings as those who have spoke of baby being engaged, but it doesn't last for more than 30 minutes at a time.
post #2 of 20
I feel you on this. My LO was frank breech up until about 37 (almost 38) weeks. I actually went in for the version, but luckily it wasn't necessary. Here's what I did:

1. Inversions at night (check those out on Spinningbabies.com)
2. Webster (and I wasn't a fan of chiro either. I'm now a convert)
3. Swimming every day (20 laps w/kickboard frog leg style. If nothing else, it felt fantastic!)

Also, walk with purpose and try to let go of the stress of it all.

Best of luck!
post #3 of 20
I'm 38 weeks 5 days along and Xander is still head up feet down, as he has been for pretty much the entire pregnancy. He seems quite content in his position and obviously feels no need to turn upside down and stand on his head.

I'm scheduled for a cesarean on the 8th. I did not try the version as I had adequate amniotic fluids but not extra, the more fluids you have the easier it is for the baby to turn. I also am quite fluffy and it would be harder for the doctor to feel Xander to move him around. She'd need to put way more pressure on my belly and not only would that be more painful I feared it would stress him out more and I didn't want to risk an emergency c-section at 37 weeks.

I was unwilling to go to a chiropractor for the Webster technique. I know my opinion is very different from most on this board but I just don't feel that it's very safe. I might be willing to see a chiro early on for some minor adjustments but to have manipulation this late in pregnancy, without any fetal monitoring to see if what the doctor is doing is distressing the baby, just seems way to risky to me.

Plus, he's been head up this whole time. I kind of figure there is a reason for that.

I was the only one in our childbirth class who wanted a natural drug free birth. All the others were "give me an epidural" and here I am having a c-section. Oh well. To me the important thing is that we both are healthy at the end of delivery, not important is exactly how he comes out.

If your baby hasn't changed position and you think you might end up with a cesarean I highly recommend reading about the surgery and recovery. I've found What if I Have A C-Section by Rita Rubin, The Essential C-Section Guide by Maureen Connolly and Dana Sullivan, and Cesarean Recovery by Chrissie Gallagher-Mundy all very helpful.

Good luck!
post #4 of 20
My LO turned head up at 36 weeks. I'm now 2 days away from 39 and s/he is still there. I can tell since s/he likes to stick his/her head in my ribs. Ouch! Anyway, I'm going back for another acupuncture session this week, have done inversion, listened to hypnobabies "breech turning" cd and went for 1 session with the Chiro but was not comfortable going back for more. I agree with KatW, I didn't like having baby messed with and not having him/her monitored. I also didn't like that I asked not to have my neck messed with and he got very defensive and still messed with my neck!

I'm scheduled for a c-section on Jan 22, 9 days after my due date. I'm not very optimistic that LO is going to turn. I figure s/he turned head up for a reason, right? And I really don't think vaginal delivery will be an option for me, since s/he is laying sorta half breech/ half transverse, in a very odd position. I've thankfully had a chance to come to terms with needing a CS and will do everything in my power to make it as positive of an experience as I can. All I care about is a healthy LO and a healthy me! (although I am kinda sad I won't get to use my hypnobabies after all the time I spent prepping! Oh well, hopefully I can use it for my VBAC next time!)
post #5 of 20
i had great luck with a wonderful, well-trained, and experienced chiro. my LO flipped after two sessions (35-6 weeks). she didn't do the exact webster technique; she said it was a bit outdated. she did a variation of it (completely forgot the name -- sorry) that didn't involve any manipulation of my abdomen or anything that made me feel my LO was in danger (or even being bothered). i got the referral from my m/w. the m/w also suggested moxibustion, but we didn't need it in the end.
good luck!
post #6 of 20
I really think the Webster method is your best bet. It's very, very safe. To put it in perspective, you're taking a bigger risk driving to the office, than you are having any adjustment made! If you're not a fan of chiropractic, then you just haven't found the right chiropractor yet. Ruling out all chiropractic is like ruling out all medical treatment. While I prefer not to see medical doctors, and ask lots and lots of questions (am my own advocate), I do see one when I have to. There are reasons to see one occasionally. Same with chiropractors. Just find one you are comfortable with and ask lots of questions. If they aren't willing to answer, they aren't the right one for you.

Good luck!
post #7 of 20
I tried so many things to get my LO to flip: inversions, yoga positions, swimming, hand stands, webster's technique chiro, regular chiro, moxibustion, birthing ball, acupuncture, pulsatilla --- and nothing worked.

I ended up having an ECV between 36 and 37 weeks. The version itself took less than 10 minutes (I think it took less than 5). No drugs were used, just monitored the baby and contractions, and used an ultrasound machine. My Dr was great, I felt no pain, just very mild discomfort. None of the horror stories I had read applied to my case. I went in shaking like a leaf and crying from fear (from all the crap I had read and had been told) and left happy as could be, peaceful and relaxed with a head down baby. Much of it depends on the person doing the version -- my Dr has an excellent success rate and has never had complications stemming from an ECV, she also came highly recommended by other ob/gyn practices and by the midwifery center in town.

Good luck with whatever you decide to do! Keep us posted.
post #8 of 20
I also had a great version experience with my first pregnancy. It was quick, easy and painless...just firm pressure. They did give me some drug to relax the uterus. One of the best decisions of my life!
post #9 of 20
Not sure of baby's position, but breech doesn't bother me - it's transverse that does. I think the baby went transverse at least twice today. I'm fairly sure baby is breech, but not 100%, so perhaps the transverse was baby trying to flip, but it still scared me. I'm going to have a friend who's a DEM come by tomorrow and see if she can tell me for sure what position he/she is in. As long as SOMETHING is coming out, be it a head, foot, or butt, I'm ok. Obviously a side can't really come out.
post #10 of 20
Thread Starter 
Thanks for all the comments. I'm hoping the naturopath will suggest either chiro or acupuncture on Tuesday - and hopefully actually do the treatment while I'm there instead of me booking another appointment. I'm definitely leaning towards acupuncture, but the naturopath came highly recommended by a coworker who used her to flip her youngest a few years ago, so will listen to her advise before deciding. I think the midwife wanted to get right to the ECV, but I said I wanted to try something else first. I see her again tomorrow, so will know better then.

I'm sorry if I offended anyone with my chiro comment. A few years ago, I did go to a not-so-good one (many, many times), and eventually switched to what I considered to be a better one. My problem was not resolved, but was not likely to be resolved that way anyway - it was a last ditch effort on my part. However, I found that I was simply unable to relax and let them adjust certain parts of my body. I resisted and could not stop resisting, which I know is not good. My problem with chiro is me! I hope I can relax enough to allow the Webster technique (or something similar) to be performed, because I can see the good in that particular use for chiro. I had no issues with the acupuncture I tried a few years ago and was completely amazed by how well and quickly it worked (lower back pain).

I think my main concern about ECV is that my tummy is (and has been for a while) so tight. Not to mention, I seem to be constantly feeling for what is where and agrivating it! I feel very bruised under the skin and it's often quite uncomfortable (painful at times) when DH or the midwife feels around.

I'm still quite hopeful that LO will flip on his/her own, but I'm not sure he/she will be given the chance, unfortunately. I believe I have to transfer care to an OB if we don't flip in the next week and I'm concerned about not being allowed to go into labour naturally prior to scheduling a c-section if we're still breech at that time. (I believe I can transfer back to the midwife if the baby flips before the birth).

Thanks also for letting me know about the great versioning experiences.
post #11 of 20
I really do hope that it works out for you. Best of luck, and keep us posted.

Quick question, though (not for OP, but in general). I've seen a few threads mentioning chiropractors manipulating the abdomen. Mine certainly didn't do that. The most uncomfortable bit was trying to fit my belly comfortably into those hole-pillow-thingies. Do some chiros really manipulate the belly? If so...scary.
post #12 of 20
I've had sacrum problems in the past, so when my baby was breech the chiro was the logical first step. I had a Webster adjustment, did some inversions (specifically the ironing-board-against-the-couch trick), and baby flipped head-down two days later. This was at just shy of 35 weeks, and s/he has been solidly head-down ever since. I believe it was a combination of the adjustment - which IMMEDIATELY made the baby noticeably more active - and taking advantage of that activity/increased space with inversions that helped my wee one turn.

I had a bad experience with a chiro once - he was a fill-in for my regular chiro, and had a TOTALLY different style than she did. It really hurt and made me very uncomfortable. The chiro I started seeing for Webster (I've been three times now, just to keep things in check) is different than my last chiro, as well - but I am comfortable with what she's doing and don't mind that she's a little rougher than I was used to. I can really tell a difference after I get adjusted, and am a definite believer in Webster, too.

Good luck in whatever you decide to do!
post #13 of 20
Little Ana here is diagonal. Yep my whole uterus is tipped! Her feet are all the way around the right side of my body, so you can actually feel them from my side and sightly onto my back. Her elbows are near my belly button, and bony! Her head is tucked into my left hip bone, and hits the top of it when she hiccups. When I have a contraction you can feel that my uterus is hardly on my left side except low in my hips. She is usually laying with her back down, or towards my back. So I am curious to see how things look this Wednesday at my appt! Hopefully once productive contractions start, she will be able to line herself up to come out on her own!
post #14 of 20
Thread Starter 
Just an update. Saw the midwife yesterday. Have an ECV scheduled for tomorrow morning. They'd like the baby flipped sooner than later. I guess they are worried about running out of room. Also, the bum is quite low, so I guess we need to make some more room down there or get the kid to move up a bit before we flip. I saw the naturopath today, and she was very optomistic about flipping the baby. I have an accupuncture appointment on Monday, and have a referal for a chiro that specializes in fertility and pregnancy that I will call if we are not successful with the ECV tomorrow.

Any last minute advice for the ECV tomorrow? I've been drinking as much water as I can, and will spend some time relaxing and deep breathing prior to it. DH helped me with some inversions last night and will do more tonight, as well as some hip openers. We tried frozen 'stuff' on the top of my womb (while inverted and not), and really noticed head movement, but not quite enough. Tonight I"ll try that in a hot, low bath to see if that helps more (with the frozen pack on top of my uterus). Last night was with a flash light and DH talking where we want the head to go.

I know I likely have a lot of time left, but apparently we need to consult with an OB if the baby hasn't flipped by the end of the week, and the common outcome of this is a suggested c-s 2 at 38 weeks. I've told the midwives that I will not allow a c-s to be scheduled early (as the only issue is breech presentation) and that I'd like to let labor start on it's own first, and they were ok with that. I just want to make sure I don't go overboard with attempts and make sure I do things in a logical order! I'll post again tomorrow after the ECV.
post #15 of 20
My LO was head down at my last ultrasound (30 weeks), but today at my OB appt., he said the heart tones are a little higher than he would expect. I may have to have another ultrasound in the next few weeks to make sure he is still head down. I really hope he is!!
post #16 of 20

my baby's head up too....

I'm in the same boat! I'm due Jan 31, and my baby is still head up. I'm seeing a chiropractor and taking pulsatilla, but the kid hasn't turned yet. So a few days ago, my husband decided to draw some arrows on my belly to give the baby "directions to the exit". I really wish he hadn't used a sharpie, though. The arrows were still there at my midwife appointment this morning.
post #17 of 20
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dayxday View Post
I really do hope that it works out for you. Best of luck, and keep us posted.

Quick question, though (not for OP, but in general). I've seen a few threads mentioning chiropractors manipulating the abdomen. Mine certainly didn't do that. The most uncomfortable bit was trying to fit my belly comfortably into those hole-pillow-thingies. Do some chiros really manipulate the belly? If so...scary.

Just got back from my first pregnancy chiro appointment (Webster's). No manipulating the abdomen. Ajustment was done near my saccrum while I was lying on my tummy (with that hole-pillow-thingy), and was very mild. She did put (mild) pressure on my lower round ligament after the adjustment, showing me how to massage that area myself each day.

The baby hasn't flipped yet, but I feel so much better! I've been getting round ligament pain since nearly the beginning and it seems to be greatly alleviated now! I don't know how else to say this, but I feel like I have more room for baby to move around in now.
post #18 of 20
Thread Starter 
Any luck with any other mamma's in flipping their little ones?

I guess it's time for another update from me. I did the ECV last week. It was very painful (baby's bum is quite low down and wedged in there). No movement at all on baby's lower end. I started accupuncture with moxibustion yesterday, started taking pulsatilla last night, and started chiro (Webster) today. Doing lots of inversions and hip openers, cold packs, etc. About the only thing I haven't tried is swimming and that's more because of availability of public swim times! Last night I decided to start eating lots of apples, becasue they always trigger lots of movement for the baby and I figure the more he moves, the more likely he will flip! I'm going for another ECV on Thursday and am remaining quite hopeful. After chiro today and accupuncture yesterday I truely feel like there is much more room in my pelvic area.

Good luck to everyone else still hoping to flip!
post #19 of 20
I'm due Feb. 22 but wanted to chime in and see how everything is going for you all. I found out last week that my babe is breech.. I have been seeing a chiro daily for Webster technique- lots of movement, and I think babe has gone transverse and back a few times, but not head down yet. Some have mentioned manipulation of the uterus/baby? I am unsure of the specifics or variations of Webster, but it doesn't involve anything like that.. I have also done moxibustion a few times, and some positioning (but it makes me really queasy to be in those positions..)

They are saying if the baby isn't turned by next week, we'd schedule a version for 37 weeks, and if that is not successful, a c-section for 39 (I am 35 1/2 weeks now). I am ambivalent about that too- I would rather go into labor naturally, and while I do have that option in theory, I was told that I would have much less control over my birth in that case, as far as the surgeon who was working at that time, and the circumstances surrounding the surgery- that if I came in while in labor with a breech baby it would trigger quite a stress response/flurry of activity and likely be approached more like an emergency situation, which I don't want.

I am just stressed not knowing what will happen, and since this is my first birth I don't want to have a c-section and be set up for a life of cesarean births (of course VBAC would hopefully be an option down the road, but might have to fight for it). And I am terrified of trying to recover from major surgery while becoming a mother for the first time and as a single parent. My apartment is only accessible by stairs; I don't know if I could even get up and down them! What if I cannot pick up my baby or breastfeed or wash the diapers?

I guess a lot of it too is that I have been so excited about the birth experience, that if I wind up with a scheduled section for position, I will feel really sad and deprived of a natural and rightful birthing experience, for me and for the baby- I don't want to take that away from him/her, and subject him/her to surgical birth. I know it's not the end of the world, but it makes me sad.

And I guess it's good that i know now though, in that I can get used to and prepare for the idea, but it's hard to know whether I should try to accept it, or whether I should fight for the choice to do a breech vaginal delivery if the baby doesn't turn (which I could in theory accomplish with a UC, or by arriving too late, or refusing to consent to surgery, or by traveling to a birth center several hours away that supports breech vaginal births..) but I really don't know that I want that either; the idea is there in my mind somewhere, but really I just want the baby to turn so I don't have to deal with this. I guess more than anything I just don't like knowing that due to baby's position, my choice is essentially taken away by default, you know? I will probably wind up with a c-section if the baby does not turn, but part of me does not want to accept that. *sigh*

Hope everyone is hanging in there, I'd love to hear where everyone is at and other experiences with different techniques to turn the baby and/or birth options..
post #20 of 20
Thread Starter 
Mama Gaia,

I feel for you. I could have written what you did. I do hope everything works out and that baby does flip. It is so hard coming to terms with your birth choices being removed from you. I completely understand all your concerns and what you wrote.

I'm now 38 weeks, still breech. Have tried everything I could think of, including 3 ECV attempts. Quite a few weeks ago, I was told that if baby did not flip, I'd have to schedule a c/s for week 38. I just couldn't permit that to happen. Not that early. I finally found a doctor that was willing to allow labor to start spontaneously first (a little out of town), but yesterday I got some hope. A doctor who is willing to let me attempt a vaginal breech birth first. The catch? He has to be on call.

I still haven't managed to prepare myself for the possiblilty of a c/s. I know I still need to work on that. I did create a birth plan, so I guess that's a start, but every time I think about it or read about it, it brings tears to my eyes. Just remember to look up the conditions on attempting a VBAC so that you have those basis covered too. That at least puts some hope at the end of the tunnel!

Good luck with everything.
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