my toddler has bacterial pneumonia...

[missbuns]

...and I now wondering about the vaccine. We had decided along with her doctor to wait until her 2 year appt. to start giving a few selective shots at a time (our decision, I know it's not super popular on here). She had issues after her first round of shots so we decided to be super careful and give her 1 at a time over a period of many years. Basically HIB and PC around 2 years and then Dtap around 3 years or so and then none until she is much older.

Anyway, I am just dying inside because I feel like PC could have prevented this. I do not know ANY CHILDREN who have ever had Pneumonia in the past 10 years or so. I have no one to discuss it with and I feel so sad and confused. I could barely find any posts on MDC about kids getting Pneumonia. Does it just not happen? Anybody have any experience here? When I brought her to the doctor he said it was a cold the first two times, and that Pneumonia is SUPER RARE. Sure seems like it. It took a different doctor after a sharply spiking fever to tell us what it actually was.

So yesterday we started antibiotics (I know, many here against this as well) and after one dose it was like night and day. Her fever went from almost 104 to normal 8 hours later. She started sleeping for the first time in 6 days.

Any thoughts on this situation? I feel so sick and sad that I could have prevented this.

[alegna]

Do you have a culture showing what bacteria and what strain?

It's highly unlikely that it's a strain covered by prevnar.



hope she feels better soon!

-Angela

[peainthepod]

I'm with Angela on this one. There's no reason to beat yourself up over something that you more than likely couldn't have prevented. It's like if your LO got influenza and you were mad at yourself for not getting her a flu shot. How do you even know that she would have been inoculated against the strain that made her sick?

I hope your baby feels better soon.

[KLM99]

I agree with Angela, but also - it sounds like she's going to be just fine, no? You trusted your instincts, got her the care she needed. The Prevnar vaccine is very new, and no one has any idea what the short- or long-term effects are. Perhaps if you had had the Prevnar vaccine, she would have had a bad reaction? Or perhaps not. You'll never know. What you do know is that your child was sick, you got help, and she's going to be ok. Sounds like you did great!

[MountainMamaGC]

Your DC will get over this with and return to being a healthy happy child. Who knows what side -effects you protected her from by not getting her the shot.

Antibiotics have a time and place and you made the best decision for your child. Like my DH says you cant argue with results.

[Gitti]

I agree with all the above. You can't just say Prevnar would have prevented this. Is it the strain that is actually covered in that vaccine?

Ask the doc for a culture.

http://insidevaccines.com/wordpress/.../pneumococcal/

I would give her lots of Vitamin C. The good type, like a food vitamin or sodium ascorbate. Bronsons 50B just in case!

[pixiekisses]

And even if she had had the prevenar shot, she wouldn't be immune to having pneumonia from that string either, so she still could have gotten this. Vaccines don't make you immune to whatever you are vaccinated against, just decreases the risk of you getting it, and getting it bad.
So don't beat yourself up.

Our sweetie have had so many pneumonias I can't keep track. Some bacterial and some from aspirating food into her lungs (called chemical pneumonia).
She is SN and lung sick though, but I know of many kids w/o SN that have had pneumonias.
Bc of the SN and her lungs she has gotten the prevenar since she was a baby btw, and still gotten all theese pneumonias, even from that string. She's also gotten the pneumovax. after the age of 2, but she still gets them.

Hope she feels better soon!

[missbuns]

Thanks guys. I don't know the specific strain but it is bacterial. What else should I be giving her with the antibiotics? Special yogurt or a type of probiotics? She already has an upset tummy from the antibiotics.

And if we give her the vaccine at 2 (this would be 4 months from now, and I plan to keep her isolated until she is very healthy..before this she had croup a month ago, so I feel her lungs are fragile) is there anything specific we should do? Maybe request a lung x-ray first to make sure everything is OK? We have a really good and understanding doctor with these issues (though I feel she will now want us to get other lung related shots).

[NYMOM07]

my neighbors son had all vaccines, but a string of colds and got pneumonia around 2- it had nothing to do with the shots. any lingering cold can become pneumonia, the shots actually prevent meningitis more than from pneumonia, dont beat yourself up about this, she is going to be fine, and you cant go backwards only forwards. I always wonder what would happen if my son catches whooping cough? and if I am at any time not ok with this reality, I am going to reexamine the vaccine... nothing is set in stone but either way you have to be prepared- this is off topic for your daughter's situation but i want you to know that many of us worry about disease vs. vaccine, and vaccinated and unvaccinated kids get sick with things that couldnt have been prevented anyway.

hugs

[tanyalynn]

Missbuns, if you have kefir, or could get some from a local store, I think that'd be good for supporting your kiddo's gut. Or maybe things like sauerkraut or kimchee. Whatever you do (food or pill supp or a combo) I think dosing is supposed to be 2hrs after each dose of antibiotic.

Kids do still get pneumonia (maybe you had a hard time with the search because of spelling? pneumonia vs pnuemonia from your thread title)--I don't know that many kids IRL and I know at least one who's had pneumonia, and maybe another. Did they test for what bacteria caused it? My concern with the Prevnar and HiB vaccines is that those are so few bacteria in the vast world of bacteria that sometimes cause people problems.

[missbuns]

Originally Posted by alegna

Do you have a culture showing what bacteria and what strain?

It's highly unlikely that it's a strain covered by prevnar.



hope she feels better soon!

-Angela

I understand HIB is rare now, but my husband has been doing his own research now and said something like 80% of the strains are prevented by prevnar...so he's pretty convinced my choice wasn't wise with this vaccine.

[Momily]

My fully vaccinated child had pneumonia -- complete with 105.9 degree temperature at 2, and many of my friends kids have had it too. It recently went through the middle school at the school I work at and about 1/3 of the kids got it -- I know that most of them had to be vaccinated, exemptions just aren't that common.

[missbuns]

Originally Posted by TanyaLopez

Missbuns, if you have kefir, or could get some from a local store, I think that'd be good for supporting your kiddo's gut. Or maybe things like sauerkraut or kimchee. Whatever you do (food or pill supp or a combo) I think dosing is supposed to be 2hrs after each dose of antibiotic.

Kids do still get pneumonia (maybe you had a hard time with the search because of spelling? pneumonia vs pnuemonia from your thread title)--I don't know that many kids IRL and I know at least one who's had pneumonia, and maybe another. Did they test for what bacteria caused it? My concern with the Prevnar and HiB vaccines is that those are so few bacteria in the vast world of bacteria that sometimes cause people problems.

Oops. I'm pretty sure I spelled it correctly when searching...I think the thread title was my own dyslexic guess.

Could someone correct it please?

It just doesn't seem all that common--like ear infections or something--and that freaks me out. It was the doctor's reasoning behind insisting it was "just a cold virus".

[Serenity Now]

My kids are fully vaccinated, and my dd still got pneumonia. Hib prevents some, but not all strains of pneumonia. In my dd's case, she had a cold virus and then got a secondary bacterial infection in her lungs, which could have been the case with your child. My dd was moderately sick with the virus, and then she suddenly got seriously sick. Her fever spiked over 106 and she was rushed to children's hospital from her Pediatric clinic. They weren't sure she was going to make the hour drive, TBH. She got a serious dose of antibiotics and got better very quickly. Then our second child started in with the same symptoms, so we proactively gave him antibiotics as well, and he never got very sick. This was both of my kids' first dose of antibiotics ever, for what it's worth. While I do find value in medicine (dh is in the healthcare field), we just don't use them unless we have to. This was a case of have to.

After the antibitic course was over, we loaded the kids up with yogurt, and their guts were just fine, BTW.

I'm sorry your dd got so sick. I had some mental health things going on after my dd was released from the hospital because she got sick so fast and nearly died. She also had PTSD after (she is grade school age), and thought she was going to die. So, I feel for you and your family. Having a sudden serious illness like this can be very scary and life altering. Thank God both of our kids are OK. If you want to chat about it PM me.

[pixiekisses]

Probiotics btw, forgot to mention it. To build up the system after antibiotics which wipes out everything.

[Proverbs31]

Originally Posted by missbuns

I understand HIB is rare now, but my husband has been doing his own research now and said something like 80% of the strains are prevented by prevnar...so he's pretty convinced my choice wasn't wise with this vaccine.

Actually, 78% of the strains are NOT prevented. There are 90 known strains of S.pneumoniae, only 7 of which are in Prevnar.

[Natsuki]

Originally Posted by missbuns

I understand HIB is rare now, but my husband has been doing his own research now and said something like 80% of the strains are prevented by prevnar...so he's pretty convinced my choice wasn't wise with this vaccine.

From the Dr. Sears Vaccine book, the strains covered in Prevnar are not as common anymore and other ones have arisen to take their place (there are 90 serotypes of pneumoccocal and only 7 are included in the current Prevnar vaccine (the 7 most common causes of pneumoccocal disease in children from 1978-1994):

p.17 of Dr. Sears Vaccine Book

When the Prevnar vaccine was first developed, the seven strains of the Pc bacteria used to make it were the seven most commonly found strains in our population.* However, now that the vaccine has greatly reduced those seven strains, others are emerging.* A brand new study showed that 96% of the severe cases of Pc disease at Children's Medical Center in Dallas were caused by Pc strains not found in the vaccine.* Researchers are already working on updated versions of the Pc vaccine in order to accommodate these emerging strains.

Here is the CDC's page on Prevnar (they even indicate that in healthy children over age 24 months the vaccine is not indicated though it can be given if desired):
http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/pubs/pin...ads/pneumo.pdf

[LisaJP]

Oh man, this thread speaks to me!!

my dd got sick Jan 17 of last year and we farted around taking her to the quick care clinic, her reg dr, but she got really bad fast and my being a new mom, I didn't know what to think.

to make a long story short, the quick care clinic misread the xray (she had pneumo), and sent us home, later that night she was admitted to the hosp. 3 days later, transferred to the PICU, where they try to suck the guck out, but she had to have surgery on her left lung. Full of strep pneumo. then we had home health care for IV antibiotics for a week.

the drs at the hosp told me she would have been better off with the PC vax, she was unvaccinated and 11 mos that the time, but I still have not had her vaxed. I still worry about htis and have begun invest. anxiety and depression disorders myself....this worry never ends, so I feel for you!

[bluebirdiemama]

Suggestion: if you have a humidifier and an herbal store nearby, make some tea with Pau D'arco and run it through the humidifier

[Satori]

Both my kids get Pneumonia very easy to the point I can pick it up 3 days before an xray can. Seriously I can't count how many times we've had it and 9 times out of 10 its bacterial. There is a time and place for abx and pneumonia is it. If your waiting until she's 2 though I would skip prevnar which only has I think its 9 strains and give her the pnumovax 23 which has 23 strains of the more nasty variants that are likely to attack and its considered "safe" after 2 years of age. We don't vax in general but I did give both my children this vax in hopes it would stop the pneumonias. It did for while until they lost the titers but while it worked we loved it. We made it through last winter with no pneumonia in my 2 yr old at all!


*donning flame proof suit now...