Waldorf & Babysigns?

[lorelei]

Anyone do baby signing and also (roughly) following Waldorf education?
I have mixed feelings. I didn't do signs with my older 2 dd's. I'm debating doing it with dd3.

To those of you who did do signs, would you do it again with subsequent children? Do you think it has helped or hurt your child developmentally? Do you think I'm over analyzing this? lol

Seriously though, tia for your comments!

[KJoslyn78]

we started learning signs (with yes, the help of the signing time dvds. though we dont use them now so much) because my 1 dd was having issues at that time (to the point where she had a special ed teacher and physical therapy during her preschool years).

We are doing some signing still now with our youngest (he's 2) and its been good. it really has helped (esp with my dd i mentioned above), esp when they are trying to tell me something, and we all know we just cant understand their words yet. We keep it simple.. All done, more, brother, sister, mom, dad....

[kghaffar]

We signed with our almost three year old since she was about 6 months old. I think it has made an unmeasurable difference in her--- she is an excellent communicator and I really think it has to do with the signing.

She learned quickly that signs/words had a concrete meaning and I think the early success she had with being able to 'talk' to us opened her up wanting to acquire more and language (both signs and words) and using it at first to help establish what she wanted/needed (without a tantrum) and later to expressing ideas about things just to communicate for the sake of talking.

We still sign with her everyday even though we obviously primarily talk through speech. She loves it. We think of it as our second language. DH and I have had to study to keep up with the vocabulary she seeks.

We also recently saw a deaf child communicating with his mother at the zoo. DD marched right over and joined in... Plus it sparked some conversation later in the day when she asked about his ability to also talk without his hands. It was a really important experience for her.

Now that said--- I have no idea how Stiener would feel about the whole thing... I do understand the resistance to print early on (although we don't follow that in our house--we have a blend of books) but I don't think the sign is the same. Though some may argue -- especially when you get to fingerspelling. I will follow this thread to see how those who are strict Waldorf see it...

[Flor]

Ds was able to communicate clearly at a very young age. He learned over 100 signs and was putting them together in complex grammatically correct ways before he was talking. He used to tell me his dreams when he woke up from a nap! I think the fact that he communicate in such a way made us talk to him in a more complex way and gave him more language development. He knew his colors and shapes before he could talk. How would I have known?

[newmommy27]

We did quite a bit of parent tot for several years with my oldest...we plan to start with the wee one soon

I have a long discussion with our Parent Tot teach (who is AMAZING) about babysigns...

her feeling was it forces very young children to "be in their heads" too soon and not experiencing the world through their senses...

Now I too have a very VERY articulate little one...he is inherently in his head...just who he is and we supported baby signs to an extent with him as he pick up verbal language almost as quickly as he was picking up signs...

we too use signs now in a loving playful way...it is almost as if he really loves the fact that we have to be fully present with him...it is fun and it works for us

in terms of what the "experts say" it looks like it is frowned upon

[fadedgirl]

This is not exactly the same thing, but FWIW on another Waldorf board we were discussing Elimination Communication. The Waldorf teacher who opined was against it, concerned that such communication at such an early age would bring too much self-awareness to the baby/child. The dreaded pre-awakening!! Although she admitted having not tried it herself and not knowing anyone (or a child) personally who had.

But there were more than a few Waldorf mamas on there who were doing it and felt it was completely normal and natural, and that nothing was forced...on the contrary only that the parents were more aware of the baby's natural ability to communicate. And those who started it later (after more than 4 weeks of age for instance) felt like their babies were actually relieved that the parent *finally* figured it out.

I will definitely try this if we have another child.

[NoliMum]

I don't see anything different between a Waldorf child growing up in a bilingual home and a Waldorf child learning ASL. It enhances the child and I don't consider it an academic activity.

We do ASL and it's really been wonderful for DD. She loves signing, although now that she's 3 and can verbalize efficiently, she uses it more as a game than as a language. We will play "What's the sign for...?" in the car when she gets bored.

Also, FYI: "Baby Signs" and Sign Language are two different things. I was disappointed when I picked up a book or DVD and found it had completely different gestures for signs. Basically they made up signs for babies that aren't "true" sign language. I always look for ASL because it's an actual language, not just something to do as a baby.

[RollerCoasterMama]

We have been doing ASL since DS was a few months old. After about 12 months, it exploded and he went from 2 to 200 signs in about 4 months! Now he uses them mixed with spoken English throughout the day.

I wouldn't give up that early window into his thoughts for anything! We never really had the frustration with communication that is so common in the second year. And it certainly didn't delay his speech at all! It seems to have helped by providing a context and vocabularly of understanding before he was able to enunciate the words clearly! He wasn't really an early talker, pretty average. But once he started his vocabularly and understanding surprised us every day!

We don't watch the videos much any more, but they were a great tool for us all since DH and I didn't know any ASL when we started. And his daycare lets them watch one short video a day and frequently that video is a Signing Time episode borrowed from us. The 5 other kids (ages 1-4) at daycare LOVE it and they've all been soaking it up and amazing their parents.

Plus...it's FUN. It gives everyone a way to interact with your child in a meaningful way. If you teach a non-signer a few signs, they just get a big kick out of signing with your baby! I know I was converted when I had conversations with my friends' 14 month old! It was just FUN!

[KJoslyn78]

What i think i also like about teaching sign is that if you keep up with using it as your child/ren grow - they already know a second language - which i think is very important. Living near Rochester, NY (where there is a huge Deaf community, schools, college, etc), i know it will be invauleable to have that knowledge - even just for myself i've learned to teach my children!

[tbone_kneegrabber]

I am an ASL student and am starting to dabble in Waldorf-ishness. The use of ASL was happening in our home before ds was born so of course I sign with him and him with us. He is currently 17 months old and has no spoken language yet but TONS and TONS of signs. And yes we let him watching Signing Time. Its the only thing we really let him watch. But I am more of a dabbler in Waldorf and certainly NOT a purist.

[Attached Mama]

We did baby signs with dd from about 4 months to about 14 months or so. She was verbal well before a year and about 14 mos or so just talked instead of signing.

I would totally definitely 100% do it again!!! It was awesome! It was amazing the level of communication we were able to have with her when she was well under 1 yr old. She was constantly using signs to share her excitement or what she was noticing with us. There were times we'd be out and she'd notice something we totally didn't. She had a way to share that with us and then we could talk about it.

I also think it helped immensely to avoid the whole toddler tantrum stage. Around 8 mos when she'd get frustrated and need help with a toy or something and make that baby grunting angry frustrated sound I'd say "Oh, you need help" while coming over to immediately help her and also signing help.

By 4 mos or so later around 1 yr old, if she made that noise, I'd say "Oh you need help. Use your signs" and she'd have to sign for help to get help. She always did it immediately and if she were tired or had she really been in trouble I'd NEVER have taken the time to do that. Anyway, she learned how to get herself the help she needed without having to feel frustrated and angry. She knew that if she signed we'd help.

Later as an older toddler it was easy to transition into words for asking for help or expressing feelings rather than kicking, grunting, screaming etc. I don't think at 3 she's ever had a full fledged temper tantrum. I remember her around 17 or 18 mos old learning to say "I'm frustrated" or "I'm sad" about things instead of having to have a tantrum. It was so helpful for her to be able to express herself easily and clearly.

So does that all make her super self aware. I don't know. Frankly I don't care. It's obviously what is best for her, what's worked for her, been to her advantage and I always follow what she's happy and comfortable with far more than any expert.

As for Baby Signs vs ASL I think it depends on what your purpose in it is. I loved the concept of Baby Signs being just for communication with family and a pre-verbal thing. Babies understand *SO* much when they are still pre-verbal!!!

ASL generally takes longer to learn because it requires much finer motor skills with the fingers. However, it's usefullness is life long. Baby signs are very easily and quickly learned because they use more gross motor skills. DD did her first sign, in her sleep btw which I found very interesting, asking to nurse at night around 4 months old.