Travel Vax Help- SE Asia + Australia

[Cloverlove]

Hi, I have 2 unvaccinated children- 10 yr. old ds + 7 yr. old dd

We will be traveling to Fiji, Australia, SE Asia and Hong Kong for 4 months. We are leaving in a month and I have been researching vaccines for awhile. The CDC, of course, wants you to have about 100 shots. I'm wondering if anyone has any experience, tips, knowledge on what shots would be essential.

I'm *mostly* OK with kids remaining vax-free, but dh is really concerned.

Thanks!

[AllyRae]

When I was in Vietnam for a month last year, I had to have the Hep A and Thyphoid vaxes (as did my son and DH). Those were the only ones the travel clinic recommended, but in general, our family is fully vaxed (except my son who is on a delayed/selective schedule)--tetanus was the other one that was recommended, but we were up to date on it.

We declined the malaria meds because at the time, we didn't realize we'd be spending a lot of time in a malaria risk zone--it turns out we were in one for a few days...oops! LOL! But, depending on where you'll be, the malaria thing isn't a huge issue...in the cities (we were in Hanoi for the most part) the issue is a lot less than in the outlying areas (we also went to a very rural area in northern Vietnam where there was a big malaria risk).

As for the other 2 vaccines...for me personally, I wouldn't have gone without them for me or my son. In Hanoi, there were a lot of sharp objects on the sidewalks that could cut feet/ankles, and we saw people urinating, etc. on the sidewalks. I didn't want to take chances on tetanus and hep A. But we did a lot of walking, and spent time in an orphange, so we wanted to be fully protected. The typhoid one--I'm sure if you only drank bottled water, didn't cook with tap water, didn't eat street food or veggies/fruits grown with local water, you'd be ok. But I got extremely ill twice there--at one point they thought it was cholera--that's how bad I was sick. And I got it from eating chicken and salads. Being that sick from food made me glad thyphoid was one thing I didn't have to be concerned with, since I believe that's transmitted in the local water.

I suppose if you took the proper precautions, you would be fine--make sure to carry around rehydration salts, etc. in case you end up getting some sort of nasty bug from local food/water, mosquito spray or protection against mosquitos, appropriate shoes to avoid stepping on something that could transmit disease, etc. While I personally wouldn't go to an area of the world unvaccinated where I didn't have natural immunities to the local diseases, other people might be able to take precautions to avoid it. And obviously, it really depends on where you're going, and whether you'll be spending time in a lot of rural areas, or whether you'll be in more westernized/urban areas.

ETA: For me, the deciding factor for me and my son (DH could do what he wanted. : ) was that for all of our lives, we were in midwest USA, except for a day in Mexico for me and a couple years in New England. We had no immunities to things outside of those areas and had never been exposed to them. So for me personally, I didn't think my immune system, or that of my son, would be prepared enough to fight off some of the things like thyphoid fever. For people that have had some exposure and some immunities, it's a different story.

[AllyRae]

Oh, and one thing you'll want to check is immigration at each of your stops. We did have to show vaccine records to get back into the US as part of immigration--I'm not sure if that was just a random thing or if they actually do require those types of things to come back...

[Cloverlove]

Thank you so much Ally! Your recommendations are super helpful!

I was thinking Typhoid and Hep. A. Tetanus would probably be a good idea.

Now that the kids are older, I don't have the same vax concerns. And now that ds will be going thru puberty soon, I've been thinking more about the MMR.

Thanks again for your response. How was your trip?

[AllyRae]

Our trip was fantastic...it was actually the trip we brought our now DD back to the US in. I would love to go back to Asia when the kids are older (and *cough* we have the money to go again... : ). We'd love to see more without having the restrictions of having to be at a bunch of adoption related appointments. The hardest part of the whole thing was the trip home, because spending over a day in flight is really quite boring. :

[Gitti]

Originally Posted by Cloverlove

I was thinking Typhoid and Hep. A. Tetanus would probably be a good idea.

He probably already had Hep A. Most kids are immune to it by age 5.

The chance for tetanus is no different here or there. It only can happen if you have a deep wound that closes up and does not bleed. Anything that is supplied with oxygen (air and blood) can not get tetanus infected.

And now that ds will be going thru puberty soon, I've been thinking more about the MMR.

That may be very dangerous. Lets say your child had measles in an asymptomatic way (where the symptoms are so that you did not really think of measles) and he built immunity. That immunity is stored where the port of disease entry is which for measles is the nose, mouth, tonsils.
So now you decide to inject the virus into the muscle/blood. There is no way the body can mount a defense since it did not build any defense in the blood. Well, that leaves the measles virus free reign to all organs. And one place where it could travel is to the brain.

It is very dangerous to inject an older child with anything unless you know for a fact that the body did not already build immunity to it.

And your son most likely had rubella. I don't know about mumps. Again, if it was asymptomatic... where is the injected virus going to go? To the testicles?

[Sailor]

I'm not vaccinated for 99% of the stuff I was supposed to be as a kid. I think I got, maybe, one or two vaccines before my parents stopped bothering. Not really out of any anti-vax stances, but because this was post-communist Poland, and going to the nurse was scary!

Anyway, my partner and I travel A LOT. I've never even heard of getting vaccines to go to Australia. That's a normal, developed country. Why would one need vaccines for it?

We've been to some seriously undeveloped countries, living in primitive conditions for weeks at a time. And we didn't get sick. Well, OK, we got sick - but not with anything that we could have vaccinated against.

I don't know if child immune systems are different than adult. But, as I said, we travel a lot and don't bother vaccinating. We don't even check to see what vaccinations are recommended. We just go.

[Gitti]

Originally Posted by Sailor

But, as I said, we travel a lot and don't bother vaccinating. We don't even check to see what vaccinations are recommended. We just go.

That is free living!!! : Free of fear!!!

Ironic how when you don't bother to buy into all that sickness-propaganda, you can live so much more relaxed and healthier because of it.

[Cloverlove]

Originally Posted by Sailor

Anyway, my partner and I travel A LOT. I've never even heard of getting vaccines to go to Australia. That's a normal, developed country. Why would one need vaccines for it?

I just meant that we are going there. I'm mostly concerned (well, dh is) about SE Asia.

I've also traveled a lot and have never been jabbed. Just want to explore all options for the kiddos.

Gitti- Thanks for your reply. Maybe I should do an antibody test for MMR?

[Gitti]

Originally Posted by Cloverlove

Gitti- Thanks for your reply. Maybe I should do an antibody test for MMR?

Oh you are welcome. I just came back to post that the MMR in anyone older than a child can cause rheumatoid arthritis.

Why are you concerned about MMR anyway? It is not more prevalent in SE Asia. Is it? I assume most people there had it naturally like the people of Europe. You wouldn't vaccinate if you went to Europe, would you?

Anyway, I also think you might get a lot out of this article -


http://www.garynull.com/Documents/Va...m#Introduction

[AllyRae]

Yeah, I don't think the MMR thing is a big deal for travel. DS hasn't had the MMR vaccine, and we only had one moment of panic when some of the babies in the orphanage (including DD) were thought to have measles. At that point, we had attempted to locate a doctor in Vietnam that could give DS the MMR vax out there, and it turns out that only one place in Hanoi could even do it. We decided against it (and thankfully none of the babies had measles anyhow), and he had no problems. In the general course of the day, we didn't really do anything that would have exposed us to measles, mumps, & rubella any more than you'd be exposed if you were walking down the street or eating in a restaurant. The kids didn't spend a lot of time in close quarters with other children, they didn't go to school there, etc. So, with the exception of the measles scare, it really wasn't a problem there.

[Gitti]

I wonder what got you so scared of measles AllyRae?

In my generation EVERYONE had measles and when parents knew a child in the neighborhood had it, they would send their own kids to the house, to get it over with.

Even the CDC said, they don't ever need a vaccine for measles because it is such a benign childhood disease. And then they brought out the vaccine and the disease became the killer it is now thought to be.

But the reality is quite different. Measles is one of the diseases that builds up a super strong immune system which will serve to avoid cancer later on in life.

Many chronic condition that a child has is healed after measles.

Measles is something I would really like to see in my grandchildren. My kids had them - all three at the same time. Same with mumps, chicken pox and a few others.

Mark my word, you'll be telling the the same story about chicken pox to the next generation, when they are scared to death of it.

[AllyRae]

Originally Posted by Gitti

I wonder what got you so scared of measles AllyRae?

Being overseas and having to deal with immigration back to the US got me scared of measles while I was there. LOL! We had several experiences with the hospitals in Vietnam and I wasn't exactly trusting of any medications they'd try to give him for it, and I didn't want problems with the adoption due to 2 sick kids. That, and we were only supposed to be there 2 weeks (we were there 5), so I had thought we were going back home soon...I didn't want any problems with immigration. I thought they'd stick us in some weird quarantine thing if the kids came back to the states looking sick. : In the end, I was likely just delirious due to a combination of sleep deprivation, a long drawn out legal battle with Vietnam's government over the adoption paperwork, and the time zone changes. LOL!

But like I said, we didn't get him the vax while we were there (thank goodness...apparently I was really freaked out, since I know full well DS's ped won't even let him HAVE the MMR vax unless I really press for it. : )

[Cloverlove]

Gitti-
Sorry to be so confusing! I was thinking about the MMR because I guess I've been scared into thinking that M+M are really bad after puberty and ds is 11. I'm not really worried about picking it up on our trip.

Also, my vax stance is changing a bit. It may be because I haven't caught up on my research (it has been awhile since I've done any reading). So thanks for the link AND reminding me of what I've always know/believed to begin with.

I will admit that the idea of typhoid scares the cr@p out of me. Yet so does Dengue Fever (epidemic in pts. of Australia + Singapore) and there is no vax for that.

Clover

[Sailor]

Well, we go fairly frequently to SE Asia ... but have never been vaccinated for trips. However, as I said, we're both adults. Though, I don't think this makes a big difference.

For what it's worth, we plan to continue our travel lifestyle with a child, and won't be vaccinating him/her either. We only know one another couple who doesn't vaccinate and they live on a sailboat, traveling everywhere with their 3 year old.

Otherwise, everyone else we know thinks we're nuts.

I just don't see the logic in "you must get vaccinated before travel" thing. It seems, to me, that if diseases were SO widespread, then we'd have an epidemic of them everywhere - not just certain countries. Just because, we live in a very global world, where air travel with lots of people traveling from lots of different places happens daily. Not only people - but things are shipped all around the world. I'm sure the products aren't going through a sanitization process anywhere.

Yet, with all that travel ... there really aren't that many epidemics in most countries. And they don't spreak in the places where one breaks out. A lot of the disease in undeveloped countries can be tracked straight down to lack of nutrition, bad water, inefficient immune system, no hygienic conditions, etc.

So, I just don't see the logic in the whole vaccination thing.

Though, obviously, I understand there are differing views on this.

The only times we've gotten sick is when we were so hot and parched, and just could no longer care about the ice the street vendor was serving in the drinks. Though, we certainly cared that evening, with only one bathroom between us two, lol.

Gitti - I totally agree. It's incredibly freeing! Plus, stress weakens the immune system, making one more predispositioned to catch something.

Anyway, have fun on your trip. Fiji is so incredible! 4 months of travel sounds like so much fun. Lucky.

[HeYunyi]

Typhoid vaccine is only about 70% effective. I was vaccinated for it and still caught it in Nepal. It wasn't that bad, I've had colds that made me feel a lot worse. The important thing is to seek medical treatment (antibiotics) in the first week, all the horrible complications don't happen until the second and third week of being ill. The number one sign of typhoid is a high fever at about 104 F. If you find yourself with a high fever check your pulse, fevers normally make your heart rate speed up, but with typhoid your pulse will slow down.

I've done a lot of traveling in Asia prior to getting the typhoid vaccine (China, Imdonesia, Malaysia and Thailand) and I wouldn't get it just for SE Asia. I personally only think it's worth considering for India or Nepal, but ymmv.

[Cloverlove]

Thanks for the heads-up, HeYunyi. Your post was super helpful.

I think I'm just feeling a bit stressed by everything. We sold our house and will be putting all our stuff in storage over the next 3 weeks. I feel really under prepared for the trip and am looking forward to actually feeling excited.

Thanks again everyone. It feels good to be back on mdc- it's been awhile!