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What would you do? - Page 3

post #41 of 59
You did fine! I often offer my son something to hold once he is in his seat. In fact, it has become habit for me to walk out with something for him in my hands. "When you are in your seat, you may have your cup of cheerios." Or toy car. Or whatever. Sometimes, if I have nothing else, I unsnap my housekeys from my car keys and offer him my house keys!!! LOL.
post #42 of 59
You don't need to defend yourself here Darshani. Being 8 mos pg you have every right to be like that. I think whatever means you do to achieve peace in your household is best for you. Raising kids (especially spirited ones) is a hit or miss ordeal - no pun intended! Really you don't know whats going to work until its tried and tested. So I think doing the tickling thing worked just fine as it got the result you wanted.

You are a wonderful woman and mommy to not have spanked your little one with the background you've had. I'm sure its challenging at times. So many people resort to the way they were treated as kids and it takes a strong person to turn that around.
post #43 of 59
Darshani, I have nothing to add except my support to you! The fact that you even try to do things better is amazing in my book and a sign of a wonderful mommy!

And happy birthday to Abi!
post #44 of 59
Thread Starter 
Day 3 with NO time-outs!!!! Wow, she's actually getting more and more cooperative just through me talking things over with her. Yeah, we've had some crying fits today when I was firm, but then I found strength in myself to try to change the subject with some humor. I also offered to rock her and give her sympathy even though she still didn't get what she wanted.

WOW, life is so much better around here with my attitude adjustment. Dh started barking at her and threatening time-outs and I was like, "Honey we are on a roll." So he got down to her level, touched her arm, made eye contact, and gave her 2 choices and she responded. I think it surprised him that she didn't fight and cooperated and hopefully that will inspire him to try to be more patient in the future.

Thanks again SO much for all the support and encouragement. It's amazing what a little patience on my part has done for our home life. I've been feeling better physically, that's part of it. Made it 31, almost 32 weeks pg. Doctor told me today he was secretly worried that I wouldn't be able to carry the pg this far but I have, and if all goes well may make it full term. Even if baby's born now she will be okay. Spend some time in NICU but probably be okay. Great news!

post #45 of 59
That's great about the good news, Darshani! Yah! What a relief to know the baby will be ok. I remember passing that point, too.

This has been a very interesting thread - I was going to post the biggest thing I've learned, but I think you're realizing it - that discipline issues are pretty much a change in your OWN thinking and responses. Of course, we're going to have moods, and we're going to be inconsistent, but most often it's not our child's behaviour, but our response to it. If we have a plan ahead of time about how to deal with a situation it is much more likely to go well. Now, wouldn't we like to prevent all behavioural problems? Sure! But our goal is to teach acceptable alternatives, and it's not always going to prevent the probs, although it does often minimize them.

I liked Dar's suggestion of finding alternatives - I do this ALL the time with dd. Sometimes it's hard for me, who is still holding onto some punitive-minded things from my upbringing, b/c I feel like "she's getting away with stuff" and not directly obeying. I'm glad you've found that helpful, to give alternatives or two choices. It does become frustrating when my dd is indecisive, though, LOL!

As an example of alternatives - dd always needs cream on her bum (either b/c of a rash or b/c she wants it). This is fine, the part that drives me nuts is when she sticks her whole hand in it and wipes it everywhere, making my life more difficult. I tried warning her it was cold, I tried asking her to keep her hands up, etc. etc. - you know what worked? Her standing up, bending down and LOOKING at it before the dipe goes up - LOL! I think she just wanted to make sure it was there...end of power struggle (only took me about 9 mos. to figure that one out!!)

I'm also of the "get up off your butt" philosophy to get things done. When I find myself repeatedly asking her to stop something I realize that *I* need to make that happen, i.e., if she's banging the glass stereo doors open and shut I have to go over there and help her stop, sometimes physically moving her hands (not roughly, just helping her) while explaining what I need. Sometimes dangerous things, medicines and whatnot do need to be immediately removed, and she will be unhappy about that. We are not always going to be able to make our child happy, and that's something I've had to realize - just b/c my child is unhappy doesn't mean I'm punishing her. She may feel upset and angry, and that's ok! We have a screaming pillow to help mommy's ears.

The other thing I wanted to comment on is be sure to expect changes in your ability and tolerance - my parenting is directly influenced by how much sleep I've had the night before! Seriously. Also the time of the month, etc. In those situations, realize your patience is low and you may not be able to parent as ideally as you'd like. As you've already done, realize that you've made changes and improvements, and be able to move on.

I don't think the question has been answered, but TCS is a parenting philosophy called Taking Children Seriously. It is non-coercive. I don't know a whole lot about it except for a few people online whom I've met and a couple articles I've read. I parent non-punitively, which means I don't (or ideally don't) use punishments, shaming, yelling etc., but instead a lot of prevention, teaching acceptable alternatives, giving of limited choices, some experiencing of natural consequences (not for an infant/baby, though), etc. For those who are interested, see the yahoogroup PositiveParenting-Discipline. I, too, am constantly learning, but have found, like I said at the beginning, that the biggest change has been in ME. :P
post #46 of 59
Originally posted by USAmma
Wow, she's actually getting more and more cooperative just through me talking things over with her.

Even if baby's born now she will be okay. Spend some time in NICU but probably be okay. Great news!

Great news about BOTH of your babies!!!! Good job Mama!!!
post #47 of 59
I'm joining the thred very late, after having learned a lot from all that's been discussed before. I think I may have some twists and variations on some earlier suggestions, for what they're worth.

Our child is younger—only 19 months. But we have found that for some tasks and procedures, it helps a lot to let one or more of her dolls or stuffed animals go through the motions first, with the child’s help and inspection, of course. We’re not sure why this helps—if it’s the opportunity to see the whole picture and make sure that the operation is safe, or maybe it’s just that it turns the whole endeavor into a game and so she’s more inclined to be cooperative. If she’s doubtful about some foods, monkey can be the royal tester and if he survives, maybe she’ll try. Before she gets into her pjs, we’ll change one of her doll’s clothes. In the morning we reverse the process. For teeth brushing, we start out with me or dad, then we move onto a particular bear (bear has no visible teeth—it’s all pretend) and only after bear do we start helping the child. Sometimes we return to bear several more times before child is done. She’s using the toilet now, often, but usually it’s one or two dolls first and then at least one duck before she’s ready to hop on herself and we know that sometimes she wets while she’s waiting in line behind the ducks. But we’d rather have that happen sometimes than have her stressed about the toilet. This may seem like it takes a lot more time—but, then again, so does chasing a child around the house with a toothbrush, which we’ve never had to do. Sometimes we badger the dolls and animals or play out little disasters with them—like “Don’t fall in, Duck!” as duck slips part way down into the toilet and we catch her—or “Now, Bear, you know you have to open wider—wider, I say, you Bear, and you better listen to me.” We exagerate and talk more forcefully to them then we ever would to her and she loves seeing them get bossed around and then, usually flies through the procedure with great good grace herself once the dolls or animals have made it through and caught all the flack and made all the mistakes…, and survived.

I don’t know how we could translate this into a situation like that on the plane. She flies with one of her dolls. I could have lectured the doll strongly on plane safety and politeness, and have the doll talk back to me, but I don’t know if that would work. Both parents being present, I may have offered for one to switch places with the passenger in front to take the blows—though that would have left that unfortunate person to still deal with the screaming in close proximity and left the other parent in the middle without a close ally. Hmmm, maybe I’d let that parent be dad. I’d rather be kicked in the kidneys than have to sit next to a melt-down. And, then I could pretend, a little, like it wasn’t my kid at all! Just for a few seconds. Then, probably, I’d try to see if a game of peek-a-boo or "secret messages" or coded taps back and forth would bridge the divide and restore peace.
post #48 of 59
I have the attention span of a gnat today and haven't read the entire thread, but I have an idea.

For those mamas having trouble getting children to sit in carseats, try taking them to the car seat knowitall at your local police station. We sit in carseats for safety AND because it's the LAW. Maybe seeing an officer and getting praised by an officer will help your cause.
post #49 of 59
Wow, what a lot of good ideas! I have to share what works for us with the carseat, because it's so darn effective, and yet so simple (yes, I know it won't work for every child, and Erik is only 2...)

Anyway, if I put him in his seat and he resists me, I take him out, snuggle him close and talk it through. "Erik, it's time to go to the store, and mom needs you to sit in Erik's seat. Are you ready?" if he says no, I tell him "I'll hold you until you're ready" At first, he would fight me, and I would tell him "I know you're frustrated, you don't want to get in. But it's time to go to the store, remember...so it's time to get in Erik's seat. Are you ready?" If he says no, I just start a commentary about the store "we're going to the store, to get yogurt, and applesauce, and bananas, and apples...are you ready?" If he says yes, and then fights me still, I just repeat until he's ready. Of course, he is spirited but not as high on persistence, so that helps, I know. But it's soooo effective for us! He doesn't really fight it much at all anymore, because he knows what to expect. (BTW, he's a BIG 2, so he is heavy...if it gets too much, I squat down and hold him...)

I love reading threads like this because I learn so many different ideas to try when we encounter similar problems.
post #50 of 59
Thread Starter 
Okay just another update. It was a rough weekend because dh was home and he is still learning to be consistent. She's still testing him big-time but he's following through. Left her behind when she wouldn't put her shoes on for an errand and boy did she cry hard, beat the door, etc. But she practically brought her shoes to him the next time he asked if she wanted to go.

I found a cute magnetic "Responsibility Chart" with many tasks on it that would apply to preschoolers. You can customize it and the tiles with the tasks all have pictures so pre-readers can understand them. Then as each task is completed the child can place a magnetic sticker in the right place. This thing has been great! She is so motivated to get those stickers. Now she is more than cooperating with picking up toys before bed, getting her pj's on, and brushing her teeth. The tooth brushing thing was a big struggle before. Not the actual brushing but her turning into a cat and mouse chase until she decided she was ready to brush.

There's one generic "be nice" one that covers everything from hitting to cooperating with the carseat, and a "sharing" one, and I have the power to remove those stickers if necessary and she has to earn them back. She hates that and all I have to do is ask if she wants me to remove the sticker if she doesn't get in her carseat and she scrambles right in. Not sure how long it will last but it's working great for now at least. At the end of the day if all of them are there across the column she gets a quarter for her bank. Thought I might want to start introducing allowance in a very simple and modest way. Perhaps in a couple weeks I'll take her to the store and she can buy some play-doh or paints or something.

Another thing is today I realized she's about outgrown the 5 pt. harness on her car/booster seat so I ran the regular seatbelt over it. Oh boy did she feel special. She said to me, "Mommy I'm growing bigger and bigger!" And gave no trouble at all. Probably because it's a new thing. Again we'll see how long that lasts.

post #51 of 59
Great thread... it has really helped me from feeling alone and frustrated with these issues.

You are doing amazing mama with your beautiful spirited dd and the new babe growing, almost ready to see the world!
post #52 of 59
Its not an issue for you anymore Darshani, but for others with this problem what worked for the carseat for us was to rename it "the Thinking Chair" (from Blue's Clues). now he is excited to go to the car and THINK! He brings a little notebook and a crayon and we draw "clues" that we see along the way Car rides have become fun for him. It won't last, none of the games do, but we started pointing out shapes and letters on signs at 12 months and progressed from there. We have gone through him giving us directions from place to place, his bear being seatbelted in next to him, silly song games, detouring to routes that had things he enjoyed (bridges, windmills, trains, etc), anything to keep the car ride new and exciting. It is a challenge to keep new ideas, but it has saved us from the constant battles over the carseat. He went from HATING the car and screaming constantly to loving it and looking forward to it.

Just thought I would throw that out there

post #53 of 59

I have to agree. Sometimes, if I want DD to do something and she's a little slow getting moving, it really helps to take Elmo and Nadia (her dolly) and start them on the process, then she quite quickly runs to join in.

By the way
post #54 of 59

You're doing great Darshani!

This has been a great thread to read--I've been struggling with DS (20 months) hitting and having fits when he doesn't get his way, so instead of sleeping (at 5 months pregnant with #2, that's a big concession), I sat down to read what the MDC crowd might have to say about it--I've learned so much and know I need to redirect my approach. Thanks to all of you!

It is trial and error, think and rethink but some key things have been said here:

1) Be consistent
2) A shift in the parent's attitude can make all the difference
3) Stay as calm as you can (often very hard!)

So glad things are getting better for you! You're doing great.

The one thing I would add is don't be afraid to do what you need to do to address your daughter's behavior in public. Many in our culture are not supportive of parents doing what is right for their children--I've even heard of strangers giving a child whatever they were throwing a fit to get in a store. People who would rather see you give in to your child than deal with the inconvenience of your child's response to not getting what she wants do not have your child's best interests at heart. They are more concerned with their own immediate convenience than helping you raise a child who can handle herself appropriately. There are probably many more silent bystanders who understand that the tantrum at the checkout line is better than giving the child the candy bar...

post #55 of 59
I’m relatively new to the GD forum but I wanted to first complain that I haven’t been able to catch one of these great threads early enough to follow along thoroughly! : Would someone PM me when a good one gets going? :LOL

OP, You are amazing! I’m so glad to hear that you were able to effectively change the situation for the better. That means that there’s hope for us when things get rough.

My daughter is only 2 and 3months so we don’t have quite the same challenges but I imagine some are coming…soon, which is why I’m here poking around.

I do have one thing to add. When it comes to “discipline” in public, I continue with whatever approach is working at home. I really think the public can/should deal with my dedication to being consistent with my child because not doing so is going to result in a more “poorly behaved” child down the road, kwim?

I hope you are feeling well.

Edited to add:

About the bribery, I do thing there are different ways of looking at bribery, furthermore, I think that some things should not even fall into that category. I tell my daughter she can take out some more toys after some other toys have been put back. This is not bribery IMO. I don’t know if this is relevant (I know the example I used isn’t great) but I thought I’d include it.

post #56 of 59
Thread Starter 
Well it hasn't been all sunny and perfect but dd and I and dh are def. making great progress. I'm still tired, grumpy and pregnant. Prodomal labor isn't helping at all.

But overall our family is a lot happier. Dd has become much less aggressive with other kids recently too, perhaps because we are trying to model good behavior to her and encouraging her if she is good. But like I said I still have my bad days and so does she.

I had to put the 5 pt. harness back on the carseat because we had a couple days where she thought it would be fun to get out of her seat while I was driving. I checked the manual and we have 2 more inches still. Another thing was something my doula showed me during a visit to my house when Abi was being difficult about the carseat (which is less and less often). Instead of me counting to three as a warning, it's now a game. Let's see if you can make it to your seat before I get to three. I keep the door closed, then say, "Mark, get set, GO!" and open the door and she scrambles in giggling. This works well for reminding her to use the potty or putting on clothes too.

almost 35 weeks-- in the home stretch!
post #57 of 59
Hello Darshani

Thanks for starting off this very useful thread and following it with updates on what worked and what did not. That takes a lot of time and effort when you are in your final stretch of pregnancy.

I have a ds who is checking his limits too (started after he turned 3 yrs) though i would not call him defiant. I have also experienced that fighting back, yelling or threatening (i am very weak when it comes to being punitive) only seems to encourage them to up the ante!! Yes, it is very difficult to be calm all the time but the cooperation and the pleasant feeling that prevails at home makes it worth putting all our energies into the positive methods!!

Thanks to all the moms here who are sharing their wisdom here in this thread. It really helps make the world a better place.

Love and Peace!
post #58 of 59
My...I think your doula must be a very wise, wise woman
post #59 of 59
Hey Darshani, you may not remember me, but I "met" you over on Babycenter, I think. One time I sent you some Dr. Sears audio tapes a nd a diaper or diaper paraphernalia, but it never got there (during the 9/11 attacks). Anyhoo, my dd turned 3 in Sept. and I wanted to say we just got that same Responsibility Chart yesterday from Target! It's pretty cool, my dd likes it and all, but nothing like your dd! She gets a very proud look on her face when I whisper to her "Thank you for not whining when I told you no ice cream, let's go put a magent on you chart!"
I have to whisper b/c we just had a friend and her 2.5 yr old dd move in with us, so any fun that can't be shared, we keep quiet! That is our current challenge- dd has an instant sister, who is only 8 mths younger than her. She is great, but it is a big change from only me and her and her having full run of the house, to 2 other people, 1 of whom is serious competition and who she must share many of her toys with.
I wanted to also offer you encouragement on the sharing/playing nicely thing I think you mentioned. My dd seemed to have adopted the mantra "What's mine is MINE ALL MINE, and what's yours is also MINE ALL MINE!!!!" at around age 2.5, and in the last month or less she has suddenly been so so so so so much better about this! Good thing, considering our new roommates!!
I was really worried b/c she could be so rude to other kids, and nothing I did seemed to help. But, all of a sudden she improved a whole lot, she is like a diiferent child. She certainly has issues with sharing still (mostly with her new "sister"), but it's not all the time and she really likes to share her things most of the time. So, good luck and maybe your dd will be out of that phase soon too (if not already, I remember reading that several weeks ago).
Sounds like you are coming up with some good ideas to gain cooperation- my dd also loves the "see how fast you can do such-and-such". Best wishes for you and family!
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