Scared to let go - question for quiverfull mamas.

[Quindin]

Hi ladies

I am hoping that some of you will share your stories and wisdom with me on this.

First of all, I am a Christian. I love the Lord and serving his church is a huge part of our family life.

Dh and I have been married for nearly 12 years (I was 19 and he was 21) and are currently expecting baby 6 (8th pregnancy)

Through the years, we used birth control twice: the pill for 10 months while I worked after baby 2, and Mirena for 3 months immediately after the birth of baby 5. Reading about birth control, there has not been ANY birth control that fit our convictions and/or was healthy. I used the pill before I knew better about the abortion risks, and the Mirena after rading extensive discussions on Christian boards about how it was "safe" in a non- abortive stand point.
Well, both created havoc in my body, and I have since learned more about the true risks of abortion on those (at least I don't ovulate for at least 6 months
after birth, so I know the Mirena did not kill any babies)

Anyway we are struggling as to what to do once baby 6 is born..
I feel convicted when I think about permanent birth control. I cannot in good conscience forever close that door!

At the same time, we also wonder where prudence fits in all this. Do we even get to use the word "prudence" when it comes to child bearing? If so, how come there isn't a single birth control method (besides abstinence) that is 100% healthy or fits with our convictions? If people had the obligation to use contraceptives as prudence to prevent pregnancy, why hasn't God made it easy for so many of us? And yes, I think that God made sex enjoyable as a blessing to marriage, so it is not like He expects us to stop making love if we don't want more kids. .

I know... I am rambling here, but I am just throwing some of my thoughts out there so you know where I am coming from.

Anyway, I feel so guilty admitting this, but I am terrified of deciding to take the jump and simply trusting God to dedide how many kids we should have. I am stretched soooo thin right now.
**Pregnancies are extremely tough on my body and I can barely function for 9 months, let alone do a proler job at mothering! I want to continue to homeschool the kids, but I am barely managing to do the basic HS stuff AND keep the house liveable (literally!)
**And then there is money: with 6 kids we can still manage to give the kids we have a humble, but comfortable and fun life. We simply can't afford more
than 6 I feel sooo shallow saying this, but money is a huge concern for us too.
**DH and I married and had babies young. We LOVE how blessed and bally our lives became with the kids - we would not have had it any other way! So is it selfish for me to look forward to a time when it is just the two of us, before we are too old to really enjoy it?

God knows all these things. He knows my heart
Yet, I am so terrified of ending up like the Duggards : I have gotten pregnant immediately after my period returned (it has almost always been suspended by breastfeeding) so I am scared of how many kids I could end up with up until menopause
Our family life is perfect as it is, and even if I dreamed to have more than 6, my health is not good enough to handle all that.

Have any of you struggled with similar thoughts/experiences?
How did you come to the point where you could happily and confidently STOP birth control?
How is your life today?

[1littlebit]

i am not particularly religious and ds is my only child so i am not much help but i just wanted to give you a a send many peaceful thoughts!

[Kidzaplenty]

Just wanted to give you a .

So many thoughts you have.

I don't really have the answers that you are looking for, as I have not struggled with the whole "letting go" thing. That part has always been easy for me.

But I do know that just because you have been fertile before, it does not mean you will remain that way.

I also know that you can get before God and tell Him all this. He does not get angry at us for telling Him how we feel. He loves us more than we can possibly comprehend. And He knows which children He has in store for you. He will not give us more than we can handle. He cares.

Don't forget either that your children are already getting older, and more able to assist you. Things really do start to get a bit easier as they are older and become more help to you.

I know that as a large family, especially a QF family where new children may be coming along for a while longer, marriage time is not easy. But it is essential. I think you can have your wonderful, intimate marriage while still having children around. And no, it is not really "selfish" to dream of a time when it will be just the two of you again, however, it may not be a good idea.

Like I tell my children, you must learn to be content where you are. There is nothing wrong with dreaming, but if you spend all your time in the dream, you lose out, and become discontent with the here and now.

Your life, for at least the next 18 years, is not your own. Have the far off dream of one day being "just the two of you". But stay with the here and now and be content to live the life God has blessed you with. Snatch every moment you can with your DH to keep your love alive, but don't become discontent with your Mom role. If you do, you will become an unhappy person.

And, I would not worry about becoming like the Duggars. It would take a lot for you to catch up! (I always joke about trying to catch them to my family that think I am nuts, so I know!)


Anyways, I hope you find the rest you sound like you need. Things will settle down into a new routine once the new baby arrives. It always does. Don't be afraid to deligate some responsibility to your older children if you need to. And don't be afraid to cry out to God with your fears. He will hear you. He will answer you.

[mrsjtc]

(I'm new here so I hope you don't mind me adding my thoughts.)

We are also a Christian, very much love Jesus family. But we decided to take the route of family planning after a lot of prayer and thought. We aren't closed to having more kids down the road, but right now in this moment I'm happy with my 3 girls.

Once a friend - the oldest of 9 - said to me "Having a full quiver is great, but you don't want to live the next 20 years, bitter and stressed because you are trying to live someone else's conviction."

I'm not trying to say one way or the other is right (please don't misunderstand me), I just wanted to encourage you to really seek the Lord and what He has for your family. He is faithful to answer you and give you peace. Remember the Lord won't lead us into unrest.

Feel free to PM me if you want to chat more about this. We attend a very strongly QF church and have really prayed through this issue.

[Quindin]

Thank you ladies for your posts so far!!

Just a couple of comments before I need to run again:

I hope I did not come across as somebody who does not love her children or being a mom. I am not counting the days for them to move out - on the contrary! My oldest daughter just got her first bra, and I spent a couple of hours crying thinking that the time when she leaves will be here sooner than we think
But I also cannot imagine my husband with little ones past the age of 50! My MIL was 44 when my husband was born, and it sucked for him. They were simply too old and tired to be there for him, so he was basically raised by his siblings. I have seen the same pattern in other families, and even at age 31 I am already noticing the difference in energy compared to when I was 20.

"Having a full quiver is great, but you don't want to live the next 20 years, bitter and stressed because you are trying to live someone else's conviction."

That's a very true statement. So many times people try to lead lives which others have told them to be right one, but they never really tried to be honest with themselves about what God wants THEM to do.
This is not our case though. We know NO quiverful families. We have people telling us at least monthly how crazy, irresponsible and selfish (!!) we are for having so many children. Yes, even Christians. So the feelings of unease about birth control DH and I have, come from within, not from what others expect of us.

[mrsjtc]

Originally Posted by Quindin

That's a very true statement. So many times people try to lead lives which others have told them to be right one, but they never really tried to be honest with themselves about what God wants THEM to do.
This is not our case though. We know NO quiverful families. We have people telling us at least monthly how crazy, irresponsible and selfish (!!) we are for having so many children. Yes, even Christians. So the feelings of unease about birth control DH and I have, come from within, not from what others expect of us.

I hope I didn't come across as implying that you are not following God's leading for your family! That isn't at all what I mean. Please forgive me if I offended you.

I just mean that although this has been your path up until now, why can't God direct you to another path? We are not full quiver but we regularly discuss whether or not we feel like God is calling us in that direction. I hope that makes sense.

[Quindin]

Oh, I did not get that impression at all

I was just trying to explain where I was coming from.

[guestmama9910]

Quindin, Caveat emptor, I am neither Christian nor full quiver nor morally/ethically opposed to birth control in general, but I would like to suggest that the matter is not as black and white as it appears. Yes, surgical birth control and other artificial birth control means are more effective than the faultier means of natural birth control, however they come with different risks. Depending on the values you assign to the risks, whether moral or medical, of artificial birth control and the relative value you place on avoiding pregnancy, it may ultimately make sense for you to try natural family planning and/or withdrawal instead of, say, the pill. You could end up with an additional pregnancy in the future this way, but that may be preferable to the perceived risk of a pill preventing implantation, for example. It's your conscience, after all.

On the side of artificial birth control, however, I would like to point out that none of the barrier or spermicidal methods are capable of effecting ovulation, implantation or miscarriage, and therefore can certainly be a part of the family planing in a family where the potential disruption of a developing pregnancy is the only moral concern. I would say that the scientific evidence is on the side that the hormonal birth controls also do not interfere with a developing pregnancy or unimplanted zygote, that all that there is to say against it is that there is a shadow of a doubt that it might, but there are enough other problems with HBC that, perhaps, it's not your cup of tea anyway.
--
AnnaArcturus

[TzippityDoulah]

I just wanted to say YES I completely understand. (I've shared my story on QF threads before). we felt convcted (strongly) by God. but.... that doesn't mean I am desiringtons of children. I adore the ones i have, but with my health problems, problem pregnancies and just pure exhaustion of motherhood i too fear having 10 or 12 kids. would I want the kids if I was given them? YES!!! however... when it comes donw to it I don't feel physically capable in any way shape or form.

so when it comes down to it I'm stuck between a clear and concise conviction, and my fleshly desires to not be bogged down. it's a constant fight. but i will say this, with the first comes a certain inner peace (even with the physical pain/discomfort and trials) and with the latter i have more freedom but no peace.

Obedience to what God calls *you* to is what ends up making life happy... not living out our inner dreams and purposes. this sounds weird to non-christians usually... but since when do our ways make much sense to the world anyhow?

If God has called you to a QF lifestyle, then keep and open and honest dialog with him. He can't help you change, overcome or move in the direction of full hearted faithfulness unless you remain open with Him.

[Quindin]

Originally Posted by AnnaArcturus

Depending on the values you assign to the risks, whether moral or medical, of artificial birth control and the relative value you place on avoiding pregnancy, it may ultimately make sense for you to try natural family planning and/or withdrawal instead of, say, the pill.

(...)

On the side of artificial birth control, however, I would like to point out that none of the barrier or spermicidal methods are capable of effecting ovulation, implantation or miscarriage, and therefore can certainly be a part of the family planing in a family where the potential disruption of a developing pregnancy is the only moral concern.

IF we decided to do anything for BC, it will have to be NFP, with abstinence during ovulation, or maybe the occasional condom / withdraw if abstinence is too difficult.
None of the other methods worked or were in agreement with our beliefs.

And about barrier methods... well, I am not going into detail and will not enter into theological/philosophical discussions. It suffice to say that the reason why DH and I have not used barrier methods as sole contraceptives, has to do with what we feel regarding the significance of the husband's seed in the marriage (independent of conception)
Yes, we have used condoms every once in a while (e.g when there was a risk of infection after childbirth), but not every time.

Originally Posted by HennyPenny

I just wanted to say YES I completely understand. (I've shared my story on QF threads before). we felt convcted (strongly) by God. but.... that doesn't mean I am desiringtons of children. I adore the ones i have, but with my health problems, problem pregnancies and just pure exhaustion of motherhood i too fear having 10 or 12 kids. would I want the kids if I was given them? YES!!! however... when it comes donw to it I don't feel physically capable in any way shape or form.

so when it comes down to it I'm stuck between a clear and concise conviction, and my fleshly desires to not be bogged down. it's a constant fight. but i will say this, with the first comes a certain inner peace (even with the physical pain/discomfort and trials) and with the latter i have more freedom but no peace.

Obedience to what God calls *you* to is what ends up making life happy... not living out our inner dreams and purposes. this sounds weird to non-christians usually... but since when do our ways make much sense to the world anyhow?

If God has called you to a QF lifestyle, then keep and open and honest dialog with him. He can't help you change, overcome or move in the direction of full hearted faithfulness unless you remain open with Him.

Yes, you know exactly where I am coming from!!
It is so hard to explain the feelings i am having to non-Christians...
For most people this is a no-brainer and they can't understand why I am feeling so conflicted or why I would be so ignorant as to even consider NOT doing anything to prevent pregnancy.
But I am happy to see others who understand!!

DH feels the same way about this as me.
While I had the Mirena on for 3 months after baby 5, I felt soooo convicted... Even after I had it out, DH and I just did not feel at peace with continueing to do the things we were doing to prevent a pregnancy.
It is so hard to explain... it is like trying to row against the current.
Somehow there was no conviction as long as we just let God decide...
And anyway, after baby 4, I did NOTHING to prevent pregnancy, and I did not get pregnant for 26 months, so apparently it was not time.
And there are almost 4 years between my 2nd and 3rd...

Oh, by the way, before anybody thinks otherwise, DH has always NEVER told me what to do about this, because it is me who has to go through the pregnancy and birth and he knows it is tough.

[neveryoumindthere]

Originally Posted by Quindin

It is so hard to explain the feelings i am having to non-Christians...
For most people this is a no-brainer and they can't understand why I am feeling so conflicted or why I would be so ignorant as to even consider NOT doing anything to prevent pregnancy.
But I am happy to see others who understand!!

I'm not Christian and I totally understand!!
I have 3 and always thought/felt/believed i would have more, but, like you, my health is not the greatest. After my first 2, I has SEVERE postpartum depression and (psychosis, too after dd2) and I just felt there was no way I could have another.
I worked on my health issues and made it my TOP priority, after ignoring my needs for so long because of $$...in retrospect it was stupid to have waited so long, when my health affected the entire family for years.
This time, last year, I got pregnant with ds and I was so over the top excited that I even surprised myself. The pregnancy, labour and birth were not great (labour/birth were quite traumatic actually) and I felt myself going into the depths of PPD he**. During the pregnancy and up until now I feel I'm "done" and that this is all I can handle. By God's Mercy,taking care of my health with supplements and lots of supplication I'm actually feeling good and ENJOYING my ds, as opposed to being purely in survival mode like I've been for the past 5 years.

I guess I'm rambling. What I mean to say is, maybe it doesn't have to be absolute? Maybe work on your health issues and then see how you feel?
I mean I do believe God knows me better than I know myself and God knows what I can handle. In the meantime I'm not *planning* to get pregnant but if I do I'll have to accept it is God's will.

[SheBear]

Subbing, I just don't have time to reply right now (we all know how I looooove to ramble! ) but my faith and confidence have been kicked every which way of late, so I NEED this thread!

[cappuccinosmom]

You know, as a QF person, I appreciate that you are even *thinking* about this. So many people think I'm completely nuts and would just automatically move to "getting fixed" the moment the had the feeling they were done or had fulfilled their dreams for family size.

You are to be praised for considering it and listening to conscience/conviction over convenience and convention.

Personally, when it comes to prudence, I often find that God is extravagent where the world would be stingy, and that he is foolish where the world thinks itself "wise".

Some of your other questions I can't answer because I think we have essentially different expectations. WIth money, we just adjust--dh is East African, so no poverty in America can ever compare with the deprivation he experienced as a child. With age, well, neither of us would be put out to find us expecting a baby at 44.

[hkowell1]

the Mirena has hormone, you can get an IUD that does NOT. I found the Paragard to work well,however I did get a heavy menses.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paragard

Just thought I'd pass this on.

[Quindin]

The copper IUD has a bigger chance of causing abortion than the Mirena.
Even if it did not, my doctors said that I IUDs won't work for me because my uterus is too big: that's why the Mirena fell out while I was at the doctors to check why in the world I was bleeding so much...
And... according to many studies I have read, the copper IUD does have an effect on the mood as well ( something about a foreign object in the uterus affecting the hormones, but I am not sure )

Regardless: the fact that no BC suits us, is not the reason why we have been praying about the whole quiverful thing. Even if they invented the "perfect" BC tomorrow, we would still feel convicted.

[eastkygal]

I can't say that I am quiverful, but I have prayed about it. I also currently have a Mirena that I will be having removed. It has made me physically miserable since it was put in. I also do not tolerate the pill. It leaves not much of an option for us but surgery, NFP, or barrier methods. We are Christians. I have had 2 c-sections and absolutely would not desire to go there again. I don't feel like it would be good for me or my baby. I tried HBAC with my second and had to be transferred. We also don't have the money for a 3rd. DH definitely doesn't desire any more children. We are very happy with our 2 girls and love the time we have with them and our life. I wanted to be done having babies by 30. However, I am left at times wondering if God is leading us in other directions. I would have had a tubal had the doctor not talked us out of it and into the Mirena. Now, the Mirena is not working for us and the more I read about it the more I'm not comfortable with it in my body. I'm just not sure, but I'm so thankful we can talk with our God. He loves us and understands us. He will see His plan out in my life. That I'm thankful for.

[MOMYS]

Dear Friend!

God wants what is best for us, in our family we believe that includes our family size.... that he is truely in charge of that; that He truely knows better than us. Regarding ending up like the Duggars..... I know so many people who have that fear! BUT know that it is not all about an ovum and a sperm; it is about God opening and closing the womb. I know QF families with only 1 child and then there are some like the Duggars with 18. God has something in mind for YOUR family - He doesn't compare you with others and being QF isn't a "competition".

Have you read
A Full Quiver by Rick and Jan Hess?
Be Fruitful and Multiply by Nancy Campbell?

Through hectic pregnancies, I have learnt that "I can do all things through Him who strengthens me"
In terms of money: We have learnt to be better stewards.


Anelle

[cappuccinosmom]

Another thought regarding "ending up like the Duggars".

I think sometimes there's a tendency to feel like God is just going to dump 18 children on you the day after you lose the birth control. It doesn't work that way (thank goodness!). Although the Duggars have many, many children, they don't have many, many very little, very dependent children with no help. At least half of those children, probably more, are at ages when they can be super helpful. The Duggars didn't start out rich, and they adjusted as their family grew. Their family was very large long before the tv shows picked them up.

All of that said, most of us are highly unlikely to have families as large as the Duggars. Even among the QF set, they are unusual.

[Quindin]

And I hear that the Duggar lady weans at 6 months so she can become fertile again asap. Is that true?

I usually don't ovulate for as long as I nurse at night (at least 12 months)

[cappuccinosmom]

You know, I have never heard michelle say it nor been given any direct reference or quote, so in my mind, it's still a rumor.

On the complete other side of that is me, who's fertility doesn't return until well after a year, and this time around I've had 6 fertile months and no baby yet. My "baby" is 20 months old, so the gap between him and the next one (Lord willing) will be 30 months or more!