Could we move the Israeli War threads into Politics? - Page 12

[JessicaS]

Originally Posted by Missy

Getting back to the purpose of this thread now...

Where can we discuss issues of racism and bigotry without being in violation of the UA?

For example, Limbaugh's recent interview. Normally, that would be in Politics. I think it needs be discussed somewhere because it contributes to a climate that has a direct impact on my parenting.

I will go and watch it and let you know.

[CathMac]

DELETED - My response didn't make sense once the post I was replying to was edited.

DELETED - My response didn't make sense once the post I was replying to was edited.

~Cath

[Jennisee]

Ok, here's my question. The following facts have been established, yes?

1. N&CE was not closed b/c of Politics. Politics was closed b/c of N&CE. The Politics forum was not the problem.
2. The problem in the N&CE forum was the gruesome, TMI, "baby in microwave"-type threads.
3. The moderators didn't want Politics and N&CE closed.

In this case, why can't we just place a moratorium on the gruesome threads? Why would the problem not be fixed by requiring new threads to be approved before being posted (like TAO is now)?

Also, why can't we temporarily split Politics and N&CE into completely separate forums, so that Politics can be reopened?

TIA.

[JessicaS]

Originally Posted by Jennisee

Ok, here's my question. The following facts have been established, yes?

1. N&CE was not closed b/c of Politics. Politics was closed b/c of N&CE. The Politics forum was not the problem.
2. The problem in the N&CE forum was the gruesome, TMI, "baby in microwave"-type threads.
3. The moderators didn't want Politics and N&CE closed.

In this case, why can't we just place a moratorium on the gruesome threads? Why would the problem not be fixed by requiring new threads to be approved before being posted (like TAO is now)?

Also, why can't we temporarily split Politics and N&CE into completely separate forums, so that Politics can be reopened?

TIA.

Part of the problem was the gruesome threads.

Politics isn't currently the problem.

We had planned on merging the two forums since the election is over. However with N&CE not going well we couldn't really do that.

We do not want two seperate forums, we need to sit down and work on what needs to be done whether that is permanent closure or something new.

[annettemarie]

Bowing out, because obviously, I'm very emotionally invested in this.

[JessicaS]

Originally Posted by Missy

Getting back to the purpose of this thread now...

Where can we discuss issues of racism and bigotry without being in violation of the UA?

For example, Limbaugh's recent interview. Normally, that would be in Politics. I think it needs be discussed somewhere because it contributes to a climate that has a direct impact on my parenting.

Racism and bigotry belong in TAO.

However this video appears to be Limbaugh's assessment of Obama.

Limbaugh, despite being a media figure is so ingrained in Politics that we need to keep the political pundits in the Politics category.

I am sorry, it doesn't look like something we can have up for now.

[studentmama]

Originally Posted by abimommy

We do not want two seperate forums, we need to sit down and work on what needs to be done whether that is permanent closure or something new.

I hope it comes back. As I stated in the war and politics thread, after seeing all the posts by different posters, I really feel like it was my tribe that got closed down. I know that's not the intention, but that's what it feels like to me. I feel like I have no place on Mothering anymore, because that's(and the posters who posted on NC&E and politics) my tribe, and it feels like we have been banned. It just makes me sad.

[JessicaS]

Originally Posted by studentmama

I hope it comes back. As I stated in the war and politics thread, after seeing all the posts by different posters, I really feel like it was my tribe that got closed down. I know that's not the intention, but that's what it feels like to me. I feel like I have no place on Mothering anymore, because that's(and the posters who posted on NC&E and politics) my tribe, and it feels like we have been banned. It just makes me sad.

I understand your feelings. They are completely valid.

I have always felt particularly close to those forums. I really hope we can find a resolution.

[Joyster]

Is the problem of gruesome threads just being the fact that the thread titles are inappropriate, or that they are posted at all? Is it the stories about war, or child abuse or a mixture of all?

I don't know how there can be a N&CE forum without some crummy news, but I can see the need for some people who'd want things a little easier to cruise without having to see "17 children killed" sort of headline. I know on another forum I visit, the thread titles are really sanitized (ie Child abuse story), and it might have a word or rating so people know that it includes something upsetting.

Someone mentioned though (sorry, I can't remember who), that it's seldom the OP that is a problem, but some sort of explosion mid thread.

How about a rule of no sarcasm or rhetoric? I can be as snarky as the next person, but in a forum that is like a tinderbox, sarcasm and rhetoric can be that match. As much as I'd love to post something snarky even towards a viewpoint of say a political commentator, maybe it just doesn't fit in in that forum and just the facts ma'am would be appropriate.

What are the current methods of dealing with people who have UAV's in N&CE? I had an ideal, but it might be redundant, since I'm not completely clear.

[Missy]

Originally Posted by abimommy

Racism and bigotry belong in TAO.

However this video appears to be Limbaugh's assessment of Obama.

Limbaugh, despite being a media figure is so ingrained in Politics that we need to keep the political pundits in the Politics category.

I am sorry, it doesn't look like something we can have up for now.

That's what I was afraid of. It's what worries me the most about this.

It is political, but it's an issue that crosses over into our lives. When people hear public figures use racism to disparage the President, it becomes a societal issue; it affects how people respond to others and it allows those views into the mainstream media, reinforcing the racism tha is already there. If it's okay for those public figures to throw around racist language and views about the President, it becomes easier for others to demonstrate that racism around my kids. Part of my responsibility as a mom is to address that racism where I see it, so for me, and I think for others, it's still tied to parenting.

[JessicaS]

Originally Posted by Joyster

Is the problem of gruesome threads just being the fact that the thread titles are inappropriate, or that they are posted at all? Is it the stories about war, or child abuse or a mixture of all?

I don't know how there can be a N&CE forum without some crummy news, but I can see the need for some people who'd want things a little easier to cruise without having to see "17 children killed" sort of headline. I know on another forum I visit, the thread titles are really sanitized (ie Child abuse story), and it might have a word or rating so people know that it includes something upsetting.

Someone mentioned though (sorry, I can't remember who), that it's seldom the OP that is a problem, but some sort of explosion mid thread.

How about a rule of no sarcasm or rhetoric? I can be as snarky as the next person, but in a forum that is like a tinderbox, sarcasm and rhetoric can be that match. As much as I'd love to post something snarky even towards a viewpoint of say a political commentator, maybe it just doesn't fit in in that forum and just the facts ma'am would be appropriate.

What are the current methods of dealing with people who have UAV's in N&CE? I had an ideal, but it might be redundant, since I'm not completely clear.

Well towards the end we were starting to implement the Politics rule of "two strikes and you are out"

[Jennisee]

Originally Posted by abimommy

Part of the problem was the gruesome threads.

Politics isn't currently the problem.

We had planned on merging the two forums since the election is over. However with N&CE not going well we couldn't really do that.

We do not want two seperate forums, we need to sit down and work on what needs to be done whether that is permanent closure or something new.

Thanks for answering. I think I follow. You're saying that 1) the gruesome threads were only part of the problem, and 2) the other parts of the problem can't be fixed by moderating new threads. Have I got it?

I would like to request that whenever TPTB "sit down and work on what needs to be done," us members be allowed to participate in the process. Right now, we're not even 100% sure what all the problems are, so that makes it kind of hard to give input outside of conjecture and hypotheticals. If the community were given a list of the specific problems, I'm sure we could brainstorm to come up with solutions. In fact, I think we showed how well this process can work when input was sought about better tying the MDC website to Mothering print magazine.

[JessicaS]

Originally Posted by Missy

That's what I was afraid of. It's what worries me the most about this.

It is political, but it's an issue that crosses over into our lives. When people hear public figures use racism to disparage the President, it becomes a societal issue; it affects how people respond to others and it allows those views into the mainstream media, reinforcing the racism tha is already there. If it's okay for those public figures to throw around racist language and views about the President, it becomes easier for others to demonstrate that racism around my kids. Part of my responsibility as a mom is to address that racism where I see it, so for me, and I think for others, it's still tied to parenting.

I don't disagree with you.

It is an issue and I really want a solution.

[Arduinna]

If you don't know what the problems were or are confused maybe rereading the stickies in News and Politics will help. They pretty clearly outlined the issues that have been going on over there for awhile.

[Ceinwen]

Originally Posted by Arduinna

If you don't know what the problems were or are confused maybe rereading the stickies in News and Politics will help. They pretty clearly outlined the issues that have been going on over there for awhile.

Ard, I think we should make you a mod!

[Liquesce]

Originally Posted by Missy

That's what I was afraid of. It's what worries me the most about this.

It is political, but it's an issue that crosses over into our lives. When people hear public figures use racism to disparage the President, it becomes a societal issue; it affects how people respond to others and it allows those views into the mainstream media, reinforcing the racism tha is already there. If it's okay for those public figures to throw around racist language and views about the President, it becomes easier for others to demonstrate that racism around my kids. Part of my responsibility as a mom is to address that racism where I see it, so for me, and I think for others, it's still tied to parenting.

But if someone were to start a thread in TAO to discuss the impact of racism on society in a more general sense, it is also disallowed to include or respond with anything that ties into media such as public/media figures using racism to disparage the president? I was under the impression that these things could still be discussed, so long as the political aspect itself was not the objective of the conversation -- like if a mandatory vax law revision was proposed, it could be discussed in the vax forum, even though it's technically a political proposal being discussed. No? Or are there just a lot of unsorted grey areas there.

[JessicaS]

Originally Posted by Liquesce

But if someone were to start a thread in TAO to discuss the impact of racism on society in a more general sense, it is also disallowed to include or respond with anything that ties into media such as public/media figures using racism to disparage the president? I was under the impression that these things could still be discussed, so long as the political aspect itself was not the objective of the conversation -- like if a mandatory vax law revision was proposed, it could be discussed in the vax forum, even though it's technically a political proposal being discussed. No? Or are there just a lot of unsorted grey areas there.

There are unsorted grey areas.

The Vax issue could belong in Activism or Vax. Even if we did not have N&CE/Politics forums it has an obvious place it would belong.

The Limbaugh thing not so much..I suppose if one wants to discuss boycotting a station Limbaugh is on it would belong in Activism but other than that I don't see a solution

[Shantimama]

Originally Posted by abimommy

We had planned on merging the two forums since the election is over. However with N&CE not going well we couldn't really do that.

We do not want two seperate forums, we need to sit down and work on what needs to be done whether that is permanent closure or something new.

Originally Posted by abimommy

I don't disagree with you.

It is an issue and I really want a solution.

I hope people are seeing that our administrators are saying this over and over again. They need time to come up with a better working model. the workload in N & CE as it was did not leave them enough time to work on solutions, so the forum has been closed. I have seen repeated posts form admin over the last few days stating that they want to work on this. I have not seen them say, "Forget about it, you're sorry out of luck and we really don't care what you think."

They clearly care about these forums too and are just telling us they need time to see if they can come up with a better working solution. I have yet to see a post from admin saying that this is how it will be forever; to the contrary, I see numerous posts saying they are committed to doing all they can - but the bottom line is they don't have time to come up with alternative solutions while that forum stays open.

Can we give them the time to do what they are trying to do? They want solutions too and are just taking some time to work on that. They have clearly been working for months on trying to improve things while the forum was open and that didn't work so they have closed it down for the time being.

I see too many posts where people are speaking as if the admin have said these forums will never, ever, ever, again be hosted here - but a quick glance over Abimommy's posts here tells me that that is not the case at all.

All they are asking for is some time to make MDC even better.

[Jennisee]

Originally Posted by Arduinna

If you don't know what the problems were or are confused maybe rereading the stickies in News and Politics will help. They pretty clearly outlined the issues that have been going on over there for awhile.

I think most people know what the problem threads were, but most people don't understand the behind-the-scenes workings well enough (forum software, logistics of being a moderator, etc.) to know why certain solutions don't fix certain problems, or especially why certain types of threads are more problematic than others.

[JessicaS]

I am going to close this for now so we can discuss the issues that have been raised so far.

Thank you everyone for participating.