OBs that circ. - Page 2

[Night_Nurse]

Originally Posted by PuppyFluffer

Night Nurse, are nurses at hospitals really willing to give out info like that about the practicing habits of the various doctors they work with? How do you go about asking? Do you just call the hospital and ask to speak to L&D then get a nurse on the phone?

I don't see why they wouldn't/couldn't. As long as the hospital or employee isn't giving out a personal recommendation (on hospital time) I think it's ethical and okay. If you call L&D and say something like "I'm new to the area and I'm trying to find a doctor who does VBAC. Can you give me any names of VBAC drs?" they staff member shouldn't have a problem naming them. Now if someone called and asked "I heard Dr. ABC has a high c-section rate, is that true"? Or, "I'm interested in seeing Dr. XYZ, do you think that's a good choice", I don't think most nurses on the clock, or those you don't know personally would give you a flat out honest response. They'd say "I don't know Dr. XYZ's section rate, it really depends on the patient's condition. You'd need to make an appointment with him to discuss that issue", you know?

I'd guess the same is true for circ info in the nursery. Either call the nursery and say "I really want to have my son circed but I've been told some doctors refuse to do them. Can you please tell me the ones who don't perform circs so I don't waste my time calling them"? Or be honest and say you hate the idea of circ and don't want to give your $ to a Dr. who performs them. Ask for the MD's/DO's who don't do them. This way might put whoever answers the phone on the defensive is all their docs circ though.
If the staff answering the phone can't tell you the info I don't see why the nurse manger of the department couldn't.

[PuppyFluffer]

Thanks for the info. I've been blessed to avoid hospitals in my adult life so I am not familiar with the general amount of information the staff feels comfortable releasing.

I did run into a casual friend when pregnant with my first child who told me that I just could NOT go to the practice I had seen. She told me that if I said she said that, she'd deny it but that I had to run away from them. This was in the middle of Costco mind you.

Good to know.

[Night_Nurse]

Yes, sometimes it's hard to know if a nurse/doctor is really making a recommendation or just being "fair and correct". If unsure, you can always ask them who is their doctor. That, IMO, speaks volumes. If you're a nurse with access to all the good info on many doctors, you're only going to pick who you think it the best. So you can always ask "who do you see"?

[danaalex]

the reason the OBs do them is not usually for money, MOST OBs do not like to do them nor do they really want to do them. the OBs do them in most places vs. the pediatricians because they have surgical privleges, vs. peds who usually do not ( especially in teaching hospitals vs non teaching).

so, when i worked at a small town NON teaching hospital in DE. the peds did them. but when i moved north to a larger teaching hospital the OBs did them.

but i never once met or spoke to a doc that liked doing them, enjoyed doing them, or went looking for them to do.

in your area, if the OBs do them you might be hard pressed to find one that on merit doesn't do them. i would just make a point of telling your OB you don't want it done, end of story!

[danaalex]

and ditto to asking for personal opinion. if the staff has worked with the docs they know them best. when i got pg i knew exactly who i would NEVER see as a patient because of their crudy bedside manner, or bad clinical skills, and who i would trust my kids with, etc.

when i left my hospital and area, i called looking for docs in the state we moved to. i spoke to the nurse manager of L and D and the peds depts.

[PuppyFluffer]

I know of a nurse who told me that the peds adn obs used to see who could do the circ first. It seemed to be a matter of them seeing who could get the money for it first.

I'll have to ask her about this story again. I was appalled when she told me this.

[danaalex]

i'm not sure but i would think the amount of money the doc would actually get for a circ would be pretty piddly. the hospital could charge for the supplies and what not, the doc would have to have surgical privleges and in most hospitals, if the OBs are allowed to do them then the peds ARE NOT allowed to do them, and vice versa. the doc could charge for the visit and the surgery aspect i suppose. but in the scheme of a birth and what not i would have to guess it's not really that much money.

honestly i never worked with a single doc that wanted to do them, and NONE enjoyed them. most of our docs were annoyed as all get up when they got called in to do circs. like PISSED annoyed!

[Fellow Traveler]

Originally Posted by danaalex

i'm not sure but i would think the amount of money the doc would actually get for a circ would be pretty piddly. the hospital could charge for the supplies and what not, the doc would have to have surgical privleges and in most hospitals, if the OBs are allowed to do them then the peds ARE NOT allowed to do them, and vice versa. the doc could charge for the visit and the surgery aspect i suppose. but in the scheme of a birth and what not i would have to guess it's not really that much money.

honestly i never worked with a single doc that wanted to do them, and NONE enjoyed them. most of our docs were annoyed as all get up when they got called in to do circs. like PISSED annoyed!

I am not sure how the money thing would work out but your last sentence is interesting. Did any of the Docs actively work to reduce the prevalence? If not, why not?

[lawmama1984]

Forugreys, I feel your pain. I am planning a VBAC for my second delivery (whenever that may be lol). My first was a planned birth at a birthing center (the Austin Area Birthing Center), but I also have chronic hypertension, so they told me I would have to go to a hospital to deliver. They recommended an OB to me who was very strongly in favor of natural delivery, but I was so distraught at the time, I just picked one willy nilly and ended up with a c/s...ugh. Anyway, I digress lol My OB, while not such a huge fan of natural birth, was strongly anti-circ. At the time, I wasn't (thank goodness I was set straight on that!). At my first appointment, he handed me a paper with his reasons for refusing to circ (which were very compelling, although I just glanced over it at the time). Perhaps when you see this doc, she will do something like this? If not, I would just ask her straight up and tell her your opinion on it. If you are not comfortable being delivered by a doc who is pro-circ, I would suggest finding another OB who will do VBACs. I know it can be difficult at times, but you said you had plenty of time (the idea of a c/s was brought up for me at the first time when I was 36 weeks prego...wth?! again, I digress! lol).

As you can see, I am in Texas as well. I would recommend calling up birthing centers, if you have any in Houston and seeing if they have any recs. These places can be a great resource, even for high risk mothers that they would not feel comfortable delivering themselves. As for the Austin Area Birthing Center I mentioned above, they do VBACs even if you have not had one after your c/s delivery, so it is a possibility. Having chronic hypertension like you, I understand the desire to labor in a hospital. My best advice is to call a birthing center or some other place that advocates natural birth and see if they will give you an OB recommendation. If there are none in Houston, you might give the Austin Area Birthing Center a try. Everyone there is so nice and I am sure they can give you some advice

[Pumpkinheadmommy]

Originally Posted by lawmama1984

At my first appointment, he handed me a paper with his reasons for refusing to circ (which were very compelling, although I just glanced over it at the time).

Wow! That is awesome! I wish more doctors would do that! Do you still have the paper? I would love to get a copy and send it to all the doctors in my area!

[danaalex]

i only ever had a conversation about circs with ONE older ped. i didn't have kids yet and it was one of the earlier experiences i had with assisting. i was a student still and the ped was called into the hospital to do one on a NICU baby that was being D/C'd. i think the annoyance/ frustration are more of a " i have better things to do" than a " this is a totally unneccessary procedure" ya know? but basically this older doc just said the parents requested it, so he was there to do it.

we were taught in school that circ's are purely cosmetic and that there was NO medical or logical reason for doing them. but, as a care provider it's not our job to tell the parents what to do with their child. we can educate them on certain things all we want, but in the end, it's their kid!

in our NICU we didn't ask the parents a million times if they wanted their son circ'd we asked once, and if they said yes it was marked off as yes and then 2 days before they were to be discharged the mom's OB was called and they came in to do the circ. and since a lot of parents hate the nursing staff in the NICU and Peds, it's not like they would welcome you with open arms if you started telling them that circs weren't necessary and that their son could go through life intact. next thing you know the parents are telling others how nasty and pushy their nurse was. so, you made nice, and did what you were told to do.

when i had a baby assigned to me that was getting a circ done, the ONLY thing i could get away with saying was " no parent should ever witness the brutal nature of their son getting circ'd. you really don't want to watch your son go through this. he'll be crying so hard it will break your heart and you won't be able to pick him up and make things better." and you'd think that the parents would be like "WHOOAAA!!!! let me rethink this" but nah, they'd still give you their son.

Originally Posted by jwhispers

I am not sure how the money thing would work out but your last sentence is interesting. Did any of the Docs actively work to reduce the prevalence? If not, why not?

[Fyrestorm]

I thought it was unethical to solicit cosmetic surgery...why do you even ask once?

I was never asked if I wanted my daughters ears cropped...

[lawmama1984]

Pumpkinhead, yes I was very surprised as well. I mean, I always assumed every OB circ'd as a matter of routine (as you can see, I have learned SO much during and after pregnancy lol) I think that paper is somewhere in my car. If not (sometimes DH gets the cleaning bug up his butt, which I hate b/c I always end up needing something, like now lol! ), I can contact his office and see if I can get a copy sent to me and either email it to you if it is sent to me by email attachment, or scan it and email it to you. I will PM you this weekend or later next week after I have had a chance to look for it and/or get in contact with his office

[robertandenith]

Probably if you try to get some information to her about circ? You can burn a dvd with the new Circumcision Decision video and give it to her or send it to her by mail?

I second to call ICAN!

[Treece]

Originally Posted by danaalex

we were taught in school that circ's are purely cosmetic and that there was NO medical or logical reason for doing them. but, as a care provider it's not our job to tell the parents what to do with their child. we can educate them on certain things all we want, but in the end, it's their kid!

Just like anyone can refuse medical treatment, any medical professional can refuse to give UNNEEDED, ill advised treatment.

in our NICU we didn't ask the parents a million times if they wanted their son

when i had a baby assigned to me that was getting a circ done, the ONLY thing i could get away with saying was " no parent should ever witness the brutal nature of their son getting circ'd. you really don't want to watch your son go through this. he'll be crying so hard it will break your heart and you won't be able to pick him up and make things better." and you'd think that the parents would be like "WHOOAAA!!!! let me rethink this" but nah, they'd still give you their son.

Two things about this disgust me.

1. It IS the medical community's responsibity to educate the public when the public at large is ignorant.

2. OMG!!! THEY WOULD STILL HAD HIM OVER????????????????? really shows how deep the ignorance flows.

[kiara7]

Originally Posted by danaalex

the reason the OBs do them is not usually for money, MOST OBs do not like to do them nor do they really want to do them. t

but i never once met or spoke to a doc that liked doing them, enjoyed doing them, or went looking for them to do.

Well, if it's not money and they hate doing them, one question begs an answer - Why won't they stop?

[Revamp]

Argue with her.

[fruitful womb]

Originally Posted by Fyrestorm

I thought it was unethical to solicit cosmetic surgery...why do you even ask once?

I was never asked if I wanted my daughters ears cropped...

EXACTLY! They shouldn't even be asking!!!

There needs to be a sleeping dog's policy here in America.

It isn't hard to explain to a parent on care for their intact daughter, "Wipe from front to back".

To say, "Only clean what is seen, do not retract the foreskin" is just as easy.

And it should be the default.

Asking if they want their healthy son to have an unwarranted surgery on his genitals is the first question a doctor will ask parents.


To an ignorant parent who have that "Doctors know best" mentality will recieve that question as a suggestion, "Well, if they're asking... it must be a good thing right?" AND A NEW parent will do anything to please those whom they think KNOWS BEST because they don't want to be thought of as a 'bad parent'.