is hiting a sibling ever acceptible?

[Onemagicmummy]

2 nights ago i was surfing the interwebs when i hear DS1 scream, cry and i look up he is holding his face saying DD1 slapped him. i asked why she slapped him. it came out between them both that she slapped him because he ws trying to get a kiss off her and she didnt want to give him one so he kept trying and kept on, and went to kiss her and she slapped him.

DS1 is 6 DD1 is 4.

i told DS1 that DD1 was with in her rights to slap him
and told DS1 that is some one does not want to be hugged touched or kissed then we have to respect that and leave them alone.

i told them both that no body is allowed to touch kiss or hug anyone else with out permission and if anyone does that to them they can hit, scratch, and punch and run.

what would you have done?

what can i do better, different if there is a next time?

is there ever a time when its OK to hit a sibling, or anyone for that matter.

Kiz

[SquishyBuggles]

I think setting touching boundaries is completely acceptable, but I don't think that teaching them that hitting each other is acceptable.

[alegna]

I was going to say it was never okay... but I changed my mind. IMO it would be okay if you were in DANGER *AND* there was no adult available to go to.

In the situation you describe though I would absolutely NOT be okay with my kids hitting each other. You were in the house, they are capable of moving their bodies. The harassed child should have gotten up and come to you.

-Angela

[mama_b]

Hmm. Well, I don't want my lo's hitting each other, but what exactly was she supposed to do in that situation? Just let him kiss her? I think she was in the right. Everyone has the right to defend themselves against unwanted touch.

[alegna]

Just to see the status... What if your older (6yr old) was a boy. And your younger a girl. Would you have been okay with a 6yr old boy hitting a 4yr old girl for the same thing?

-Angela

[amcal]

In the situation you described, no way it's not acceptable.

You're teaching him that her body is more important than his.

He wasn't trying to assault her. He was trying to be affectionate and she did want it - that's completely different.

I would have focused on teaching your DD how to handle a situation like that without hitting and I would have focused on talking to DS about respecting other people's boundaries.

No way would I ever tell one child that the other child had the right to hit them in a situation like this. What a bizzare message.

Now, if it were a true assault, that would be completely different. I do teach my children that their bodies belong to them and if anyone is doing something to their body that makes them uncomfortable, they have the right to say no and if the person doesn't stop, they have the right to kick, scream, bite etc..... but, I think it's important that children understand the difference between over exuberant play and a true assault.

[Jenelle]

I guess these are the kinds of things that I just handle on a situation-by-situation basis. I would have looked at DS1 and said "you need to keep out of her space, if she's not in the mood for hugging and kissing then you leave her alone and go do something else." And I would have looked at DD1 and said, "he shouldn't have been all over you for hugs and kisses, but it's not ok to hit either, and you know that. if this happens again, you get away from him and come tell me." Then I would have told them to give each other a hug, say they're sorry, move on and be nice.

[Irishmommy]

Originally Posted by amcal

He wasn't trying to assault her. He was trying to be affectionate and she did want it - that's completely different.

When you're 4, it IS a true assault. How much age difference does there have to be for it to be assault? Near where I live a man was charged with sexual assault for doing to a child (in public) what the op's older child did.

[Irishmommy]

Originally Posted by Jenelle

Then I would have told them to give each other a hug, say they're sorry, move on and be nice.

So the son gets a lecture, but STILL gets to touch his sister.

OP, I think you were perfectly right. And kudos to your dd for defending herself.

[amcal]

Originally Posted by Irishmommy

When you're 4, it IS a true assault. How much age difference does there have to be for it to be assault? Near where I live a man was charged with sexual assault for doing to a child (in public) what the op's older child did.

You have got to be kidding me that you're equating a brother going to far in giving his sister a kiss and a man sexually assaulting a child?

That is so wrong on so many levels. It is absolutely not an assault and I think it really minimizes what people who really do get assaulted go through. An assault is a true trauma. That is not what happened in this situation and to say it's the equivalent of an adult assaulting a child is just so disturbing.

Absolutely the behavior needs to be dealt with. Absolutely he needs to learn that when she says no, it means no and there are consequences to him crossing that boundary but, no where did I get from the OP that the brother frequently "assaults" the DD and she had just had it and hit him.

My 5 yo DD adores her 6yo sister. She loves to kiss her. Loves it. It drives my 6 yo crazy. She hates to be kissed on the lips by her sister. So, we work on setting boundaries and respecting boundaries. We don't just say it's ok to hit.

[Irishmommy]

The sexual assult I referred to was a kiss on the lips. http://www.thestar.com/article/561904

When you are 4, it doesn't really matter who is trying to kiss you against your will, you are still being kissed AGAINST YOUR WILL.

And thanks to personal experience, I'm well aware of what assault is and isn't.

And I am not accusing the OP's son of assault, I don't think it was. But it doesn't matter what I think, it matters what the sister thinks, as she was the one on the receiving end of unwanted touches.

I personally would prefer my dd to hit a sibling who tried to kiss her than to think that anyone can kiss her even if she doesn't want it. No means no. Though I would talk to her about other ways of dealing with it too, as appropriate.

[amcal]

It is so strange to me that you're even bringing up an adult assaulting a child as an example to prove your point in this situation. It just doesn't make sense and has absolutely nothing to do with the situation at hand. One is an ADULT sexual predator the other is a 6 year old sibling with out any ill intent.

I don't understand how you think that the only two options are to either hit or let the child think that anyone can kiss her even if she doesn't want it.

And, I highly doubt the 4 year old thinks of the situation as an assault. She was probably irritated, annoyed and lashed out. I doubt she sees herself as the victim of an assault.

Of course no means no. And it's important for a child to learn how to assert themselves verbally and it's important for children to learn to respect boundaries. It's also important for children to learn what to do when someone is crossing that boundary. But, telling a child that it's ok to hit her brother when he goes a little too far in playing is just beyond me. Why not use it as an opportunity to teach? They are so young, they don't get boundaries yet. It comes with time and experiences and setting examples and teaching. That's our job as parents.

[elizawill]

is hitting a sibling ever acceptable?

acceptable? no. understandable? yes!

[elizawill]

Originally Posted by Onemagicmummy

is there ever a time when its OK to hit a sibling, or anyone for that matter.

Kiz

well...i expect siblings to get physical. does it make me proud and happy. no. but i accept it as part of growing up with multiple kids close in age. as for hitting other people, again...not acceptable really - but often is understandable. imo, kids often express themselves in inappropriate ways. sometimes kids are figuring out boundaries, discovering self-control, learning to express anger, frustration, or embarrassment, etc.

now, i say all this *assuming* this conversation involves siblings and playmates only & the hitting is coming from one child being annoyed by another. if your question involves scenarios outside of this realm, i'd need to have a specific example to give a stronger opinion.

fwiw, your kids will probably slap each other again in the future.

hugs to ya!

[pixiekisses]

Never in this house.
Violence is not something we will ever support, tolerate or say is ok. It's an absolute no-no.
If I was in the OP's situation, I would have told the kid that hit that instead of hitting, you can yell for an adult or come running for an adult to remove yourself from the situation. And I would talk to both of them about never touching, kissing or huging ppl that say no.

(There's actually one exeption that I can think about, and that's if the kid is in real danger and there's no adults around. But that's not very likely to ever be a real situation.)

[AngelBee]

Originally Posted by SquishyBuggles

I think setting touching boundaries is completely acceptable, but I don't think that teaching them that hitting each other is acceptable.

[Lazy Gardens]

Originally Posted by Onemagicmummy

t came out between them both that she slapped him because he ws trying to get a kiss off her and she didnt want to give him one so he kept trying and kept on, and went to kiss her and she slapped him.

Here's the lesson: No means no, even from a smaller child or a family member.
Here's the consequence: Persistent physical harassment may bring physical retaliation.

I'm in the minority, but your DD probably taught him a good lesson, and was far gentler about it than a neighbor's child or classmate might have been.

[Lolagirl]

I am absolutely shocked that anyone on MDC would ever advocate permitting their child to hit anyone, especially a fellow sibling, and especially for such an infraction. One of the primary missions of this site is the practice of Gentle Discipline when it comes to raising children, and the cornerstone of GD is not hitting one's child as a mode of punishment or behavioral modification.

Why is it suddenly ok to use violence against a child if the person delivering the blow is also a fellow child?

The final thing about this discussion I find disturbing is the suggestion that a female is somehow more entitled to her bodily integrity than a male. Of course the OP's daughter should be able to say no to her brother's kisses and have that refusal be respected. But they are young children after all, and it is perfectly understandable that the OP's son got caught up in the moment and forgot to stop when she said no.

I'm still working with my kids on issues like gentle touches and respecting physical boundaries, and while I certainly understand sometimes why one of them may have hauled off and hit the other one I still never condone the hitting or let the incident pass without using it as a teaching moment to reinforce the house rule that they never hurt one another physically.

[nextcommercial]

O.K for those who say it's never O.K to hit...

How would you imagine it happening? What SHOULD she have done instead?

If we teach our kids that it's not o.k to defend yourself, how will they know when they are 12, that it's O.K to kick the snot out of the 15 yr old cousin when he's trying to get her to take her clothes off?

I am NOT suggesting AT ALL that the older brother was being even remotely innapropriate. I think he was behaving perfectly normal for an older brother.

I am just saying that if our kids can't protect themselves from their brother, how can they know that it's different when it's a cousin, or big brother's new friend?

I'm ALSO not saying that what the little sister did was O.K. But, I don't think what she did was that bad either.

In our house, the major rule is "No means No, and stop means stop".

[alegna]

Originally Posted by nextcommercial

O.K for those who say it's never O.K to hit...

How would you imagine it happening? What SHOULD she have done instead?

(sorry- got the kids confused above)

But I posted what I think should have happened. There is a parent reasonably close. You move your body to the adult and explain, complain, ask for help.

-Angela