Stbx wants ds EVERY day - Update #111 - Page 2

[yogal]

im confused doesnt your starbucks have a daytime job?

Also
In canada if there is no custody order your stbx could potentially keep your child and refuse to give him back and thats where i started and its been three years and i still dont have my son. i dont know where in the world you are but i would establish custody right away.

[DogwoodFairy]

Originally Posted by yogal

im confused doesnt your starbucks have a daytime job?

Also
In canada if there is no custody order your stbx could potentially keep your child and refuse to give him back and thats where i started and its been three years and i still dont have my son. i dont know where in the world you are but i would establish custody right away.

lol on the starbucks. Right now stbx has a winter contract to plow snow. He only works when it snows, in other words.

Last winter in Maine it was hell - it snowed every week, at least one or 2 days a wk. Nonetheless, he STILL wasn't home when it wasn't snowing. He spent his days when not plowing over at his friends, hanging out in the garage watching TV. For real. I was alone with a newborn baby for days on end because he preferred hanging out somewhere else. I suspected he was having an affair he was gone so much. I started checking his mileage. He would make excuses about having to be at his friend's garage to work on his truck or plow every.single.day. There were maybe 5-10 days when he wasnt plowing and stayed at home, and those days he laid on the couch and snored all day, as if HE had been the one up all night with a baby. I was SO sick last January with raging plugged milk ducts, I ended up getting mastitis and had a really high fever for 3 days. I asked him to PLEASE take ds downstairs for a while so I could get some sleep, and bring him to me every couple hours to nurse. He refused. Instead, I layed in bed with ds during the sweats and chills while I listened to stbx snoring on the couch downstairs. AARRRGGGHHH!

I heard that this winter isnt so bad with the snow accumulation, so potentially, stbx could be at home every day. Pray it snows. I am.

[pinetree]

First, I agree with you about CIO. However, the courts probably won't and they might view you as too controlling.

You also want to, as much as possible, never say no to his parenting time requests right now.

I agree with your reasoning, but you're looking at more than just that. You're looking at long run, not short run. Win the war even if you have to give up the battle.

I've learned something over the last while. The courts do not care about bad parenting as long as both parents are involved. They only care about dangerous parenting and even then they don't care as much as you'd like them too.

Another thing I've learned... no matter how uninvolved he has been. He's now mad at you. And so he'll hurt you whereever he can. He knows your son is important to you so he's going to try to hurt you through your son. CIO, though terrible, is small potatoes compared to what he could try and will try. Try to make this a non issue and he's like likely to do it deliberately just to annoy you. Because the courts don't care if he practices CIO. They just don't care.

When the courts hear that he's been uninvolved before but wants to be involved now, they're most likely to say, "Great! He needs the opportunity!" Because they have seen these types of cases go two ways... one way the dad actually does step up to the plate and become involved. The other, he plays super dad do for a while, discovers it's cramping his style and then he backs off or gives up. Since a dad could go either way, and the courts don't have the time to figure out what way he'll go when they rule, they give as many dads as they can the opportunity to try to be the good dad that they are claiming to be.

It sucks. Big time. But it's how the courts work.

Read about attachment issues in children. Something that comforts me is that children need a stable caregiver who meets their needs in a trustworthy manner in order to learn to bond properly. Your son has had that for 16 months and you are fighting to remain in his life so that even if he doesn't have that all the time, he'll get to return to that safe place with you. You will become his anchor in life and he will learn that even if others are not to be trusted, you will always be there for him. It'll involve a lot of you picking up the pieces for him when he returns from his dad's house. But you'll be his strong, stable support when he needs it.

[Theoretica]

Originally Posted by Socks for Supper

After that, though, I'm totally okay with stbx having him for 3-4 (to start) hour shifts, and I already told him that if he's comfortable with doing ds's naptime, then I'll concede. But he has to give ds a few days to get used to being w/stbx, AND he has to promise me that he's not going to let ds CIO. I stand strong in my personal belief that letting a baby (no matter how old) CIO is abusive. I dont care if he puts him in the car and drives around to get him to sleep, if thats what it takes. Stbx seemed okay with that being my only "rule". I also dont mind dropping ds off and picking him up.

I have already considered having ds do an overnight so that stbx can see what its really like to have a lo wake up every 30 minutes because he's teething, or too hot, or too cold, or because the cat sneezed 3 rooms away...wouldn't hurt anything for stbx to see what he's really signing on for, but I'll have to see how things go before I feel comfortable with that. Plus, stbx sleeps REALLY deeply, and uses a CPAP machine for sleep apnea, so he probably wouldnt wake up for ds anyway, especially with ds in another room all alone.

Now you're thinking!

Three points:

You cannot control the CIO issue. The courts don't care, you come across as micromanaging, and your stbx KNOWS he's got something he can do to get to you. Let it go. Be the 100% AP mama when DS is with you, but don't think about what stbx does. For all you know, he might not let DS CIO but might TELL you he does, just to get you hysterical. Let. It. Go.

I think sending DS over his naptime is fantastic. Dealing with a nap-crabby toddler can wear on anyone's nerves, so this is an ideal situation for him to play daddy, since he's so hell bent on it. I'd suggest sending him about an hour and a half or so before naptime. That way they get some playtime and DS will DEFINITELY be tired and ready for it w/daddy. If he is ONLY going over during naptime you'll have a crabby toddler later that night...potentially every night...and you'll be disrupting DS's schedule, something you want to demonstrate you are NOT doing.

Don't offer to do all the transportation. Period. STBX needs to pick DS up FROM you. This is important because the responsibility for the visit lies with STBX and not with you. HE will have to show up or it's a failed visit. If YOU are responsible for transportation than it's ALL on you to make sure the visit happens. You be the one to pick up so you can make sure the visit doesn't 'accidentally' take an extra few hours. The judge will like that transportation is shared anyways, makes you look really fair.

[grass67hopper]

Great posts form Pinetree and Theoretica.
Once you are set in Maine, take notes on EVERYTHING with dates and times!
When he picks up / when you pick up, how DS is after visits, did DS eat, did DS nap, did X leave DS with someone else, etc. -- do not use all of the notes ('cause that will make you look too controlling), but have them and use what is pertinent (your attorney can advise you). Oh, and take pics whenever you can -- it can help to prove your point about negative things. For example: if X is late, take a picture so that you can prove he's late; is there a carseat in his car, his house, if he's smoking around DS, etc.
Also, it sounds like you know X's behavior and when he likes to hang with friends. If he likes a particular football team and is always with friends then, it's a perfect time to insist on visitation.
And start structuring your life in Maine so that you can do some things for yourself and get a job. Not only would getting a job make you look really responsible, but X would have to adhere to your schedule! Of course you being the totally responsible mama that you are, you will have to make back-up plans because you can bet he's not going to show consistently.
You're really putting yourself together -- be proud!

[lilyka]

here is what I had to do . . . suck it uip and take standard visitation. I think it gives xh waymore than I am comfortable with and way less than he wants. fortunately we can work together and live close by.

file for divorce or se[peration immidiately and a temporary custody and child support agrrement will go into effect right away. this is usually standard visitiation. here that means one day a week and every other weekend. a child your sons age would not be given any special consideration by the courts as a infant. the more you fight it the worse it will be for everyone. pick a day of the week. decide who you will alternate weekends, and when xh comes to pick him up put a big smile on your face, kiss your son good bye, tell him to have a good time with his dad and mean it. relay any important information to his dad and ask him if he needs anything. other things you can do to be pleasent and cooperative. offer to have a family dinner once a week (you said he gets along well with your family, invite him over.), get a web cam, call nightly for ds to say hey and tell him goodnight. all these things will go along way to show the courts you are being more than generous, promoting a bond between son and his dad, and being more than cooperative. it also shows your son that you want the best for him and that you are truely ok with him loving his daddy.

[grass67hopper]

Gee, Lilyka, I think I need to take some nice lessons from you.

[Bad Mama Jama]

Originally Posted by DanishMom

No, not every day. I do understand if he would want some extra time with your son in the beginning though. I'm thinking that if he could be with him two whole days a week that would be a good solution. I also do agree with the Harpy that it's going to be easier on your son if he'll learn to transition from mom's place to dad's place while he's young. Not saying that you should start overnights anytime soon but it's harder on kids if you wait until they are five or six - IMO

I don't blame you for having very negative emotions about your ex but believe me when I tell you that if your ex can become an involved dad in the future it's going to be so much easier on all of you. It will save both you and your son the heartache that comes with a dead beat dad. The pain that kids feel when they get older and realize that their dad doesn't care that much is indescribable and you would be the one to answer all the tough questions your son is going to ask.

The fact that he's been uninvolved does not mean that he has no love for his son or that it hasn't been really hard on him to be separated from him for two months. Spending time with him alone will get him involved. Of course it's sad that he didn't get involved sooner but it certainly is better than nothing. BTW, my dad was pretty uninvolved when I was a child but there is no doubt that he loves me a lot and we have a great relationship now and he is a great granddad to my son.

I think the most important thing here is that you need to look good in court after leaving the state for two months. I'm really worried how the judge will react to that. Above all you need legal counseling ASAP.

: I have to agree here. I think the judge or referee will be able to come up with a schedule and you all have to find peace with it. I don't see the judge saying everyday, all day. I can however see the judge saying there will be set times such as 9 a.m. to 6 p.m. one or two evenings gradually until they are able to build up to overnight visitation. The reality is, no matter how ugly it may be, we created these children with someone and until they do something to get their parental rights snatched or completely drop off the face of the earth (which it seems that mine has done ) we will have to deal with the other party involved. I am sorry that you are not pleased with his notion of taking you into court, but please remember you want to give the appearance of keeping your son accessible to his dad, otherwise, the courts will make it messier for the both of you.

[pranamama]

are you chatting with your ex, if so , I would switch to email, and keep all your tones bland and businesslike, even better if you can get an attorney to do the communicating with his attorney.

Do not let him feel you out for vulnerabilities. There are 2 ways to do visits. One is you let him have standard, with overnights the other is do something unusual like several hours every day, most moms work this out to avoid overnights.

It seems like your ex has an agenda, which is another reason to have less exchanges there is less opportunities for him to make up crap about you and lie to the courts about it.

If you are ok to granting overnights, just stick to the fact that you need your time uninterrupted state, and restate, I want my weekend and am willing to give him his weekend and I don't want my time with the child chopped up.

You don't owe him anything for taking off with the kid, it was your right and you are back before the court ordered you back, so don't act like you feel guilty or owe him anything, he could have gone in the first day you were gone and got an order for you to return the child.

[Geraldine_L]

Originally Posted by Socks for Supper

However, NO. You cannot take him from his Mama every day, especially since he hasnt seen you in 2 months. That will scare him.

The court will argue that's what you did to him/your son. You will have to give some make-up time to show you're willingness to parent together or they'll think you're keeping him for yourself.

[StephandOwen]

Originally Posted by pranamama

You don't owe him anything for taking off with the kid, it was your right and you are back before the court ordered you back, so don't act like you feel guilty or owe him anything, he could have gone in the first day you were gone and got an order for you to return the child.

Really? I would have to disagree. If it's her right to take off with the kid for 2 months then isn't it also ex's right to take off with the kid for 2 months and not let her see him? The ex has just as much right to the kid as the mom does, assuming they were married and/or his name is on the birth certificate and he hasn't had his rights revoked by the court. NEITHER one has a right to take the kid for months at a time and not let him see the other parent (unless there is abuse towards the kid happening and taking him out of the state was the only way possible to keep the kid safe).

bestofpercy (says Owen)

[ginger_rodgers]

Originally Posted by StephandOwen

Really? I would have to disagree. If it's her right to take off with the kid for 2 months then isn't it also ex's right to take off with the kid for 2 months and not let her see him?

Um, no. (Steph, is that really you?) What SFS did was wrong, and both she and the boy are paying for it now. But you don't correct that by messing with the child further.

[StephandOwen]

Originally Posted by ginger_rodgers

Um, no. (Steph, is that really you?) What SFS did was wrong, and both she and the boy are paying for it now. But you don't correct that by messing with the child further.

You know *I* agree with that..... but does/will a Judge? That's the question. It's not a matter of whether I or you or anyone else agrees with it. I know you know me better and know I would NEVER advocate anything that would hurt a child. But, unfortunately, the courts don't always see it that way

ETA- my point about it being ex's right to take the kid for 2 months was kinda tongue in cheek.... just a reminder that if the mom can do it, the dad can too (legally). I'm not saying it's right MORALLY.

[DanishMom]

Originally Posted by StephandOwen

You know *I* agree with that..... but does/will a Judge? That's the question. It's not a matter of whether I or you or anyone else agrees with it. I know you know me better and know I would NEVER advocate anything that would hurt a child. But, unfortunately, the courts don't always see it that way

ETA- my point about it being ex's right to take the kid for 2 months was kinda tongue in cheek.... just a reminder that if the mom can do it, the dad can too (legally). I'm not saying it's right MORALLY.

That was the way I understood it Steph. Of course you wouldn't suggest that the ex took off with the child for two months. There was no doubt (to me anyway) that you were talking about how the judge would see it.

[ginger_rodgers]

Well, maybe the judges are less reasonable where you are. I can't imagine that sort of result coming down around here -- the courtroom would be jammed with social workers & psychologists on appeal.

[StephandOwen]

Originally Posted by ginger_rodgers

Well, maybe the judges are less reasonable where you are. I can't imagine that sort of result coming down around here -- the courtroom would be jammed with social workers & psychologists on appeal.

No, actually the Judge we have (not in Kentucky- in Michigan) was *very* reasonable. I'm sure it didn't/doesn't hurt that we were in a small town where everyone knew everyone else and I graduated high school (in a class of 14) with the Judge's oldest son so I had known the Judge for years.

HOWEVER, I've been a member of this board for many years. I've seen some women go through hell fighting to keep their kids safe. I know that there are Judges out there who wouldn't hesitate to give the dad much more visitation than the child can reasonably handle. I remember a case (I can't remember if it was on this board or another one) where the mom fought "too hard" and came off looking like she was trying to keep the dad from the kid so the Judge gave the dad custody and the mom visitation.

All I'm saying is that once you go to court- anything can happen. You can be absolutely sure, in your mind, that you're right and everything will go your way. But nobody can predict how a Judge will rule that day.

[pranamama]

I disagree, if a mom has no money and her relationship is not working, and she moves in with friends family and it takes her ex 2 months to get to the courts and file something, she doesn't owe him 2 months of parenting time.


I have lost my time to an ex not following a parenting plan and I didn't ever get awarded makeup time, not for a weekend and not for months at a time. I was also not fully reimbursed for my costs to enforce the parenting plan.

Socks for supper doesn't even have a parenting plan so she has done nothing wrong, she is even returning before there are any court orders on the childs residence.

[DogwoodFairy]

I'll chime in here and say that Steph is probably right in terms of the court's view. Of course, stbx's attorney and any court will say that I deprived him of visitation for 2 months, and LEGALLY anyway, he could do the same to me without fear of reprisal (right now where there is as of yet no visitation order). The courts, of course, wouldn't order any make up time for me taking ds for so long, but they'll certainly factor that behavior into the custody decision.

Which is why I'm going back ASAP to maintain frequent visitation between stbx and ds BEFORE a visitation order is set.

I am going to bend over backward to be the good guy here at this point. I think stbx will totally hang himself. And while I'm certainly concerned about my child's well-being and happiness (since stbx has never really taken care of him before), I'm going to bite my tongue, and offer suggestions to him gently about how to make his parenting time with ds easier on him. My motive is of course, to make the time with his dad comfortable for ds, but if stbx thinks I'm criticizing or controlling about parenting he will be vindictive, as pp pointed out. And stbx is primarily a very selfish lazy person, so if something's easier for him, and he feels like he can get more while expending less effort, he will always go the easier route.

I dont think he'll last 2 weeks with taking ds every day, even if it is only 4-5 hours at a time. Ds is teething.

2 whole days with a teething jet-lagged toddler will make him run for the hills.

[grass67hopper]

:
And maybe DS will get a stomach virus while he's on the plane that will suddenly come on during a visit?


Just one comment, your gentle parenting advice will still be taken as criticism... So be careful. Most likely, as I've learned the hard way, it's best to say nothing. Although later you may be taken to task for not giving advice.
Ack, these things suck!

[Theoretica]

:

Don't waste your breath with offering parenting tips, advice, or anything...even under the guise of helping him out or making it easier on him. He doesn't care what you think, and even if he pretends to care I guarantee it'll be presented in court this way:

"SFS refuses to turn over child without a litany of demands and expectations for STBX, creating a stressful transitonal environment for DS"

Therefore. When he comes to get child, child is ready to walk out the door. You give child a big kiss and hug, you say bye to child and hand diaper bag to STBX. Close the door, and come vent to us about the whole thing...but don't tell HIM anything other than 'have a great time'.