Stbx wants ds EVERY day - Update #111 - Page 3

[DogwoodFairy]

Originally Posted by grass67hopper

:
And maybe DS will get a stomach virus while he's on the plane that will suddenly come on during a visit?


Just one comment, your gentle parenting advice will still be taken as criticism... So be careful. Most likely, as I've learned the hard way, it's best to say nothing. Although later you may be taken to task for not giving advice.
Ack, these things suck!

Yes, I'm trying to balance in my mind what would be inappropriate to tell him, or what would be just plain neglectful to keep from him. Because he hasnt been around ds for 2 months, obviously there are some developmental changes in ds that stbx isnt aware of. I really think I need to be as open as possible with him about letting him know where ds is in terms of abilities, in order to keep ds safe from stbx's lack of vigilance. We're talking about a 16 month old, here!

What I decided was appropriate to share with stbx was not necessarily instructional, so much as informational. Such as:

1) Ds can now move furniture around to use as step stools, and quite often is found on tables, counters, etc. if not watched CONSTANTLY. He loves to climb anything right now.

2) In the past few weeks, he has developed an affinity for sucking on cords . Stbx has cords EVERYWHERE in our house/the house in Maine that ds will experiment on.

3) Ds can now open doors, if he can reach the handle.

These are just a few things I could think of. I think its only fair to stbx that he is informed of these things, not only to save his sanity, but to protect my son. Stbx has never really been involved or observant about ds's ever blossoming capabilities, and even less so now, because he hasnt been around him recently. He is also pretty clueless about being vigilant - like I mentioned previously, his main activity is to hang out on the couch and watch TV while ds careens around the house. But if he tries that now, ds will be on the bathroom counter, getting into the medicine cabinet, etc, etc.

Also, one of my HUGE contentions with stbx was his unwillingness to properly childproof our house. He REFUSED to install drawer latches because he didn't want to mar his expensive cabinets, and wouldn't install a top-of-stairs gate for the same reason - he didn't want holes in his precious woodwork. I had to remove all the knives from the drawers and keep them out of ds' reach, the stairs were an absolute nightmare. We slept upstairs, so ds and I slept in our room with the door closed (to prevent him from waking and taking a stroll down the stairs), which meant the room got freezing, because the only heat was wood heat, and the room didnt get heated with the door closed all night. Now that ds can open doors, though...

So anyway, you can see my concern. Also, stbx owns guns, and quite often he would lean them against a wall or let them hang out in a corner, much to my annoyance, and regardless of my harping on him about the danger. He thinks I overreact about guns in general. I hate them. He thinks kids should be exposed to them and its perfectly okay for a gun to just be leaning on a wall for a child to explore (if its not loaded). He counters that if its forbidden, it will be more attractive. I agree with that sentiment regarding a lot of things - BUT ITS A GUN!!! Lock it up! He owns several, so there's always a gun around somewhere. He has a locking gun safe, but its full. really. The man owns over 20 guns. I am seriously concerned that he might put them in a closet, but ds can open doors now, and stbx wont want to install locks because of his precious woodwork...Plus, if ds is in the habit of handling even safely unloaded firearms, what the hell would stop him from playing with a gun that might be loaded at someone else's house? (stbx's family all hunts. They are a gun-happy bunch) This was an ongoing argument between stbx and I, but at least I was always there to keep ds' environment safe. Now that I'm not there? Its just going to be very hard for me.

I digress again. My stbx is all about himself. Really. I have reason to be concerned about ds' safety around his dad. Its not (all) because I'm controlling

So I'm going to try and let him know where ds is in terms of abilities, otherwise ds will be in danger, and stbx will be pissed off if ds, IDK, knocks over a gun and scratches it? But I will try not to be too overboard. Fire by trial is not a good idea in our situation, given stbx' complete lack of judgment regarding toddler-safety.

[grass67hopper]

Gosh, I'd think the kidproofing and gun negligence is definitely something you can bring up in court. That's not controlling, it's safety!
And they do get to be such little monkeys!
If he refuses again, definitely take pictures.
As a PP recommended, if you can e-mail this information, you will have records of the exchange and then X cannot deny you telling him. This is very important. Again, document as much as possible!
ooh, I already feel this going your way in the end.
Let's practice patience together...

[grass67hopper]

I'm really stuck on this picture stuff (advice from my attorney)...
Do you have an old pictures with guns laying around in your house?
If so, that's a great evidence to submit as to why you left with DC.
Hope you find some good pics!!!!

[DogwoodFairy]

Originally Posted by grass67hopper

I'm really stuck on this picture stuff (advice from my attorney)...
Do you have an old pictures with guns laying around in your house?
If so, that's a great evidence to submit as to why you left with DC.
Hope you find some good pics!!!!

I actually DID have a couple pics before I left that showed a rifle just standing in the corner. In the move though, I think I misplaced the camera card that the pics were on...I also had pictures of ALL our marital assets - vehicle, campers, etc, in case stbx went nuts and trashed everything out of spite. I've looked for the memory card, and alas, I think its gone

[DogwoodFairy]

I've finally talked to the lawyer I want to hire to represent me. She counseled - absolutely do not come back to Maine early. If I go back to Maine early and give stbx fair visitation, I will not be able to leave the state. She told me to stay put, fly back on Feb 3rd, or immediately before our first mediation appt (Feb 4).

I asked her wouldnt the court see then that I'm withholding ds from his dad, and would I be in danger of having ds taken from me and given to stbx?
She said No. "No court is going to take that baby from you. I wouldn't even be afraid of losing custody of him. You've been his primary caregiver since birth. Dont even worry about it".

??????????

For real? Everyone here on MDC, as well as the other lawyer I spoke with, seems to think otherwise - to get my ass back to Maine ASAP.

My brain is going to explode from all this conflicting advice. :

I kind of argued with her, asking her if she was SURE, and she said, "You're paying me for my advice. I'm giving it to you. If you dont want to have to move back to tMaine for good, then stay there."

[Theoretica]

Are you hiring her because she's telling you what you want to hear?

I vehemently disagree with her, one because that makes your stbx's case stronger, and two because taking a child away from their father is wrong, and three because by default 'regular' long distance parenting time is going to mean your child will be away from YOU for extremely long periods of time as well, which is ALSO wrong, and four you will likely have to bear the cost of long distance...cross country...transportation expenses for your child to visit dad....and I could keep going but the essence of this is I'm pretty worried for you here.

Wowzer. Best of luck to you with all of this...keep us updated...
Theoretica

[DanishMom]

Can you get a second and third opinion? Find lawyers who offer a first consultation or even phone consultation for free.

Must be very confusing and scary too - Hugs!

[DanishMom]

Originally Posted by Theoretica

by default 'regular' long distance parenting time is going to mean your child will be away from YOU for extremely long periods of time as well, which is ALSO wrong

I have too agree that long distance visitation schedules are much much harder on the kid. He wont be that old before he'll be gone for most of the summer. 3-4 weeks without you is much worse than every other weekend schedules. I'd move back and set up standard visitation.

[sparklefairy]

http://www.llli.org/NB/NBJanFeb96p4.html

There may be some useful ideas there about starting frequent, brief visits and building up to more time. It does refer to breastfeeding in particular but can certainly apply in other instances where mom has been exclusive or primary caregiver and parents separate.

[pranamama]

I would move to where the child was a resident, at some point, maybe not today but probably before the parenting plan. I wouldn't want to send my child off all summer and every Christmas which is how many long distance arrangements work assuming you won the custody in the first place.

[DogwoodFairy]

Originally Posted by Theoretica

Are you hiring her because she's telling you what you want to hear?

I vehemently disagree with her, one because that makes your stbx's case stronger, and two because taking a child away from their father is wrong, and three because by default 'regular' long distance parenting time is going to mean your child will be away from YOU for extremely long periods of time as well, which is ALSO wrong, and four you will likely have to bear the cost of long distance...cross country...transportation expenses for your child to visit dad....and I could keep going but the essence of this is I'm pretty worried for you here.

Wowzer. Best of luck to you with all of this...keep us updated...
Theoretica

Well, she was referred to me from several people I trusted, and I've been told twice that she's the "best" family law attorney in the area, w/30+ years experience. So I wanted to hire her initially, but now I'm pretty skeptical about her advice.

I cant hire her anyway because her schedule doesnt fit my court schedule...she referred me to someone else, so I'll be talking to him tomorrow.

I am divided about her advice though. Her main point was that if my ultimate goal is to be able to live in Oregon w/my kid, then to stay here. And that is my ultimate goal. I know that it will be hard to do the long distance parenting thing. I agree thats very hard on kids as well as parents. I have to say, I dont think stbx will exercise his visitation after the first year or so. #1- he's cheap and wont agree to pay for his own travel to come visit ds. #2 - he works non-stop in the summer, and wont want to take ds for prolonged amounts of time.

I will see what the new attorney says about it tomorrow.

I am SO confused. I wish this was all over.

[Theoretica]

You are assuming the court will A) keep custody with you in the first place and B) allow you, as custodian of the child, to move/remain across the country when dad is clearly demonstrating a 'sincere' (to the courts, at least) interest in parenting and and that is a BIG gamble with very high stakes involved...and if you lose, you will lose BIG.

And...your x won't be responsible for traveling to YOU to visit the child. The child will be traveling to HIM to visit. And YOU will likely be responsible for the cost of travel specifically because you left in the first place. Just like if they place custody with your x and you remain in Oregon, you will likely still be responsible for cost of travel since you left. The issue is that the courts see you disrupting the status quo.

And remember...you are paying an attorney for services and they can say whatever they want and talk whatever game they please, to convince you to hire them. That doesn't guarantee any outcome. It's always ultimately up to the judge, the attorney can argue till they are blue in the face.

If he's really going to lose interest in his kid, it will happen in Maine too, and you can petition to move then, with a MUCH higher success rate.

From what you've said he is certainly not father of the year material. And regardless, even if he's not the father you wanted him to be he is STILL the child's father and he has the right to be a part of his life JUST AS MUCH AS YOU DO. I'm sure he has plenty of complaints about you as well, (and I'm not invalidating your issues w/him, just saying there's always two viewpoints) so my question is this: If the shoe was on the other foot and HE did this to YOU...would you still agree he has the RIGHT to keep the child away from you 8 months out of the year, just because he disagrees with your parenting style? I'm doubting it, in fact I'm guessing you'd (rightly so) be a total wreck. Every child needs both of their parents...full time...whenever and however possible.

Barring substantial abuse, no one has the right to decide to remove a parent from the life of their child.

Good luck w/the new attorney, keep us posted!

[grass67hopper]

Been there : and continue to visit more often then I'd like...
Talk to the new attorney. Remember to keep breathing (okay, I'm reminding myself at the same time).
All I can say is
Keep us updated!

[StephandOwen]

Originally Posted by grass67hopper

As a PP recommended, if you can e-mail this information, you will have records of the exchange and then X cannot deny you telling him. This is very important. Again, document as much as possible!

I have a huge file of every text/email/etc sent to/from ex. Fortunately (kinda, in a bizarre way), ex doesn't like to talk to me on the phone. He only communicates with me via text, which actually works in my favor because I can save every word

Originally Posted by Theoretica

I vehemently disagree with her, one because that makes your stbx's case stronger, and two because taking a child away from their father is wrong, and three because by default 'regular' long distance parenting time is going to mean your child will be away from YOU for extremely long periods of time as well, which is ALSO wrong, and four you will likely have to bear the cost of long distance...cross country...transportation expenses for your child to visit dad....and I could keep going but the essence of this is I'm pretty worried for you here.

Just by reading your post about this new lawyer, I got a very bad feeling. What she's trying to do is soooo risky. Remember- the only thing she has to lose is a little money (maybe.... does she get paid regardless of what the outcome is?). What you have to lose is YOUR CHILD. I would get more opinions before I made any decision.

Originally Posted by Theoretica

You are assuming the court will A) keep custody with you in the first place and B) allow you, as custodian of the child, to move/remain across the country when dad is clearly demonstrating a 'sincere' (to the courts, at least) interest in parenting and and that is a BIG gamble with very high stakes involved...and if you lose, you will lose BIG.

And...your x won't be responsible for traveling to YOU to visit the child. The child will be traveling to HIM to visit. And YOU will likely be responsible for the cost of travel specifically because you left in the first place. Just like if they place custody with your x and you remain in Oregon, you will likely still be responsible for cost of travel since you left. The issue is that the courts see you disrupting the status quo.

And remember...you are paying an attorney for services and they can say whatever they want and talk whatever game they please, to convince you to hire them. That doesn't guarantee any outcome. It's always ultimately up to the judge, the attorney can argue till they are blue in the face.

If he's really going to lose interest in his kid, it will happen in Maine too, and you can petition to move then, with a MUCH higher success rate.

From what you've said he is certainly not father of the year material. And regardless, even if he's not the father you wanted him to be he is STILL the child's father and he has the right to be a part of his life JUST AS MUCH AS YOU DO. I'm sure he has plenty of complaints about you as well, (and I'm not invalidating your issues w/him, just saying there's always two viewpoints) so my question is this: If the shoe was on the other foot and HE did this to YOU...would you still agree he has the RIGHT to keep the child away from you 8 months out of the year, just because he disagrees with your parenting style? I'm doubting it, in fact I'm guessing you'd (rightly so) be a total wreck. Every child needs both of their parents...full time...whenever and however possible.

Barring substantial abuse, no one has the right to decide to remove a parent from the life of their child.

Good luck w/the new attorney, keep us posted!

I'm just going to quote this whole darn post.

I moved to Kentucky from Michigan with ds. I am responsible for making sure ds gets to Michigan about 6 times a year (for a weekend) to give his bio-dad a chance to visit him. Ex is not responsible for any travel costs nor does he have to travel to Kentucky to see ds (though he could if he wanted to). Yeah, the scheduling and travel costs suck. But *I* made the decision to move knowing full well what I was getting into. If someday ex were to be a totally involved parent and somehow got to the point where a Judge would order Owen to go with him for full summers/school vacations, I would have to be okay with that because *I* made the decision to move out of the state. Now, in our case, I don't ever see that happening.

Can I ask what would happen if you did lose custody of your son? What if the Judge gave ex custody and you visitation over summer/Christmas? Would you be okay with that? Would you try everything you could to see ds more frequently? Would you move back to where ex and the child are? Think about it.

[ginger_rodgers]

I have to tell you, I'd be reluctant to take that advice unless you can prove some pretty stout domestic violence. Like enough to change jurisdiction. I'd also ask the lawyer what she's basing that on, and how many cases she's handled in which the mother fled the state with intent to deprive the guy of contact with the child. And how recently.

From the opinions and code I'm reading online, the mothers are not getting away with upping and taking the kids when the dads fight it. It sounds like she's right in saying you may not be allowed to leave the state with your boy again, but that's true regardless of when you show up there. If you roll the dice and leave the boy behind -- well, you'd shoot yourself in the foot several ways, it appears to me. You may also find yourself accused of intentionally concealing him.

The bottom line appears to be that unless you're fleeing domestic abuse and running to get a divorce and custody orders in another state pronto, courts don't take kindly to one parent depriving the other of the children. So yeah, I'd be quizzing that lawyer on the basis for her assertions, and why she thinks the fact that you've been the only one doing childrearing has anything to do with how things will go.

I'd also be nervous about a lawyer who was that sure of anything. I mean look, I was going up against a guy who'd been disabled and out of work with a mental illness for years, I was plainly the primary caregiver, and everyone assured me my lawyer was the best around, a winner. She's an aggressive, abrupt lady. But even she advised me to get my ducks in a row, and was not making any promises.

[eccomama]

Originally Posted by pinetree

First, I agree with you about CIO. However, the courts probably won't and they might view you as too controlling.

You also want to, as much as possible, never say no to his parenting time requests right now.

I agree with your reasoning, but you're looking at more than just that. You're looking at long run, not short run. Win the war even if you have to give up the battle.

I've learned something over the last while. The courts do not care about bad parenting as long as both parents are involved. They only care about dangerous parenting and even then they don't care as much as you'd like them too.

Another thing I've learned... no matter how uninvolved he has been. He's now mad at you. And so he'll hurt you whereever he can. He knows your son is important to you so he's going to try to hurt you through your son. CIO, though terrible, is small potatoes compared to what he could try and will try. Try to make this a non issue and he's like likely to do it deliberately just to annoy you. Because the courts don't care if he practices CIO. They just don't care.

When the courts hear that he's been uninvolved before but wants to be involved now, they're most likely to say, "Great! He needs the opportunity!" Because they have seen these types of cases go two ways... one way the dad actually does step up to the plate and become involved. The other, he plays super dad do for a while, discovers it's cramping his style and then he backs off or gives up. Since a dad could go either way, and the courts don't have the time to figure out what way he'll go when they rule, they give as many dads as they can the opportunity to try to be the good dad that they are claiming to be.

It sucks. Big time. But it's how the courts work.

yes to all that above. i fought my ex tooth n nail and one day on every issue which just created more issues. ex would go out of his way to piss me off on all important issues like my parenting style,etc. so i learned to just bite my tongue and suck it up cuz in the end it would be dd that got the worst of it...

i'm sorry mama. the court system is flawed...

[DogwoodFairy]

Originally Posted by StephandOwen

Can I ask what would happen if you did lose custody of your son? What if the Judge gave ex custody and you visitation over summer/Christmas? Would you be okay with that? Would you try everything you could to see ds more frequently? Would you move back to where ex and the child are? Think about it.

I would absolutely wither and die if I were to lose custody of my son. I agree with everyone that her advice just sounds...crazy.

If the Judge gave primary custody to stbx, even temporarily, there is NO way in hell I would return to Oregon without my child. I would remain in Maine for however long I needed to in order to be in his daily life, and until I could regain primary custody. It's not even a question to me. OTOH, if stbx took ds from me out of state in the manner I did to him, there isn't ANYTHING in the world that would have stopped me from getting my butt on a pane to go to him. Especially if I wasn't working (stbx wasn't working the entire month of November when I left), and had nothing to do but sit around the house and bitch about my misfortune, which is what stbx is/has been doing since I left him.

I'm not defending my decision to take ds out of state (though I still feel it was my only option at the time). I see now that it was an error of judgement, in regards to how the courts will view me in terms of ds being separated from his dad. Again, I didn't really think stbx would freak out and file for divorce. I underestimated him in that regard.

But regardless, stbx has STILL not expended any effort on his part to come see his son, or try to bring him back to Maine, or send a webcam so that ds can SEE him during the nightly phone call, or even sent a freakin' picture of himself that ds can see. The man cant even pick up the phone every night to call ds - I am the one that does that. He insisted he wanted to talk to ds every night, but wont actually make the call. He has plenty of money to fly out here, or even fly ds back, and he has refused to buy a plane ticket. He's also not exactly employed, so its not like he's missing work. He's sitting around watching TV! I also told him that I was willing to come back for the case conference, and I would fly back with ds if he would let me use the Frequent Flyer miles for the ticket, as I didnt have the money. He refused. So he wants his son, but not enough to do anything about it. It infuriates me. It only shows me how much he really cares. I know that morally its wrong to take his son from him, but really - he showed about the same amount of interest when we lived there. I really didnt think he cared, or I wouldn't have left in the first place. And he's just showing me now that he still doesnt care - his pride is hurt and he wants his son back, but only to make a point, and only to use it as a control tactic over me.

If it were ME? I'd be on the first plane I could book and fly myself to wherever on earth my child was. I would do everything in my power to get to my child, including leave my house, home, job, community, favorite TV shows. Nothing would stop me. But that's just me.

[Goodmom2008]

Originally Posted by Socks for Supper

I have to say, I dont think stbx will exercise his visitation after the first year or so. #1- he's cheap and wont agree to pay for his own travel to come visit ds. #2 - he works non-stop in the summer, and wont want to take ds for prolonged amounts of time.

I will see what the new attorney says about it tomorrow.

I am SO confused. I wish this was all over.

First, who says he is going to have to pay anything for the transportation costs? You are the one who moved away and created the distance. It is not unheard of for the courts to order the parent who moved away to pay ALL of the transportation costs of getting the child to the other parent for his parenting time. Therefore, he wouldn't be out any money to see his child. You would and from what you have told us, I get the feeling that he would exercise all of his parenting time just to make you pay the money for transportation.

Second, do you really think he would leave your son home alone? He would put your son in daycare while he is working. Or he can have his new girlfriend (when he gets one) care for him or a family member.

[ginger_rodgers]

Originally Posted by Goodmom2008

He would put your son in daycare while he is working. Or he can have his new girlfriend (when he gets one) care for him or a family member.

That. He sounds mean, but not stupid. If his mom is nearby she'll likely end up doing most of the caregiving. Otherwise, well, women do pile in to help a single dad with caregiving if they show up looking helpless.

I think you should prepare yourself for three possibilities:

1. Your stbx may get primary custody;
2. You may have to pay child support;
3. You may not be permitted to leave the state with ds unless you have stbx's written permission.
4. Depends on how Maine handles supervision, but you may be required to have a period of supervised visitation.

Not saying it'll happen, just that it can.

You should also understand...and this is hard...that in most states, once custody is awarded, it's very difficult to change. Here, for instance, you have to prove that circumstances have changed so radically that the noncustodial parent is clearly the better parent. Which in practice means that the custodial parent is not a fit parent, and the courts' standards for "fit" tend to be quite low. You have to show substantial and ongoing neglect, drug abuse, incapacitation from mental illness, familial instability, etc. If both parents look like good parents, the courts here don't change custody.

So I think you should be a) hiring a tough, but conciliatory, lawyer, someone with a reputation for working things out in a gentle, civil manner; and b) having that lawyer negotiate realistically with your stbx's lawyer. Because it appears that your stbx is engaged in a power play and does not really want the work of primary custody, but understands that he holds an advantage. Your lawyer will have to see what he'll trade that advantage for. You may find that in the end, he won't give, and he retains primary custody. In that case all you can do is try to shift the facts on the ground, which means doing as much caregiving as possible, over a course of a couple of years, while still paying child support to your stbx. After that you'll have a stronger case to go into court and say, "Look, the flight risk is in the past, and the fact is that I am the primary parent. Stbx has voluntarily yielded custody."

(I have to tell you that if I were in your stbx's position, and I'd been married to a SAHD who did 90% of the childcare, and he ran off with the kid, I'd make sure that I lost no legal advantage in keeping my kid.)

And in the meantime be as accommodating as possible, which also means returning pronto. The lawyer will know, but I imagine itd also be helpful to arrive in tears of contrition, admitting much wrongdoing in depriving stbx and ds of each other, and doing what you can to show that it was an act of desperation. If you have proof of stbx's neglect and not caring about ds, I imagine that'd help -- letters saying he didn't care about ds, or witnesses who have heard him say repeatedly that ds was a mistake, that sort of thing.

The only exception I can think of, again, is if you can show substantial abuse. Don't underestimate emotional abuse, there. I would talk with DV people to see what you can substantiate.

I am still wondering about the advice Ms. Experienced Lawyer gave you, and wondering what she bases it on. I would call and ask. If she knows something that trumps everything we've said here, and it's got a solid foundation, then I'd consider it. But I'd really want to know where that's coming from.

In any case I'd move quickly if I were you.

[Theoretica]

But regardless, stbx has STILL not expended any effort on his part to come see his son, or try to bring him back to Maine, or send a webcam so that ds can SEE him during the nightly phone call, or even sent a freakin' picture of himself that ds can see. The man cant even pick up the phone every night to call ds - I am the one that does that. He insisted he wanted to talk to ds every night, but wont actually make the call. He has plenty of money to fly out here, or even fly ds back, and he has refused to buy a plane ticket. He's also not exactly employed, so its not like he's missing work. He's sitting around watching TV! I also told him that I was willing to come back for the case conference, and I would fly back with ds if he would let me use the Frequent Flyer miles for the ticket, as I didnt have the money. He refused.

I hear you, but he's probably being advised by his atty to make you do all the work re: communication and contact. You created a situation where HE is seen as the victim, and that's going to be a problem for you. Quite frankly, I'm surprised he and his atty haven't filed an ex parte motion for immediate temp custody to be placed w/him, because they have serious grounds to do that.

And Frequent Flyer miles might be a part of the divorce action, therefore unable to be touched until it's decided who 'owns' them. I'm not as familiar with marital assets as I am custody/family law so I'm not 100% sure, but I *think* that's the case in most situations.

I keep meaning to ask...when he filed for the divorce/custody, what did he ask for? Did he ASK for custody of the child? Or did he ask for JOINT custody? Or just for the courts to determine the best interests of the child? If you wouldn't mind sharing, that'd give us a better idea of whether or not he's even asking for anything problematic?