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post #41 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by prothyraia View Post
I think it's ridiculous and insulting when someone tries to claim that they know what you'll end up doing better than you yourself do.

I believe it's entirely possible that there are parents of newborns, who are good at cooking and for whom it's a priority, that can successfully roast a chicken the way you describe. You may very well be one of them.

HOWEVER I think only a parent of a small baby can understand just how difficult such a feat can become. :

I guess I find "I don't/can't do x, when you're a mom you'll understand" to be inoffensive, whereas "You won't/can't do x, when you're a mom you'll see."

It's the whole 'oh, you'll be begging for drugs in labor' thing all over again. Why can't people just say "I thought I wouldn't need drugs, but then I really wanted them" instead? or "Before I became a mom, I thought my kids would never watch TV, but now they do all time because I need to get things done."

I guess it's easier to mock other people's choices than to own up to yours.
True that...but I've been very careful with my phrasing. I don't say "I would NEVER use disposables because they're terrible in landfills!" or even "yes, cloth uses wash water and takes time but it's so worth it," because, well, at this point I cannot say for certain whether it's worth it. But the science of the environmental impact of cloth v. disposable changes not a whit whether I've gestated and birthed anyone, or, for that matter, whether I plan to use cloth or disposable myself. (And children's clothing sizing is completely extraneous to my family planning.)

As for the chicken--again, that "I have had better results with Method A" is a statement of fact. I will likely not roast a better chicken with Method B after I've had children of my own. (Now, will I have the time to roast a chicken at all? Maybe not. But I've done it with a two-year-old.)

I like the analogy to begging for drugs in labor.
post #42 of 102
[QUOTE=hmk123;12951431] Because hubby and I already do, at least 85% of the time, . . . it will require no change in our lifestyle at all.

since I already take care of my own needs with cloth it is not a stretch to expand that to my children.

QUOTE]

These two lines jumped out at me.

I think the things you're talking about doing -- homemade organic babyfood, cloth diapers etc . . . are certainly doable, and worth it, and wonderful things to do, they do represent a change or a stretch. Washing the volume of cloth diapers your child will go through is substantially different from washing a much smaller volume of mama cloth, preparing food when you're too tired to see straight, and distracted by an infant, and can't use any techniques that might splatter because said infant is strapped to your chest, is substantially different from cooking.

If someone said to me, I plan on using cloth because protecting the environment is really important to me, I'd say good for you, or what a great choice, and I'd support them by buying diapers as a shower gift or whatever. But if they say "I'm using cloth because it's easy, it won't be a change for me" I'm going to think "first time parent, good luck with that".

When my son was an infant, and we were struggling with a lot of medical things that kept us up all night I remember throwing out 3 successive batches of formula because I feel asleep standing up while counting out the scoops. Now making formula is not exactly gourmet cooking. You measure some water, count out about 6 scoops, close the lid and shake. It's significantly easier than cooking rice or dry pasta. And yet, on that particular day it was beyond my capabilities. And while I was still committed to cooking most of my own food when he was that age, my definition of cooking shifted rapidly from "following a recipe to prepare some delicious treat" to "throw a piece of salmon under the broiler, take it out when it's black around the edges, eat it with a banana and a green pepper (eaten whole like an apple so I don't have to wash a knife) and maybe a piece of dry whole grain toast".

I completely understand where you're coming from, you're really committed to these ideals and I know from my own experience that that committment is key. At the same time, I wonder if you're bringing some of the comments on yourself with the implication that these things you're planning are going to be easy, because they aren't. Worth it -- absolutely, but not easy.
post #43 of 102
I'm remembering a conversation I had when preg with my first. I was telling someone that I wanted a natural drug free birth. They replied with "Oh, just wait, you'll change your mind. So many women say that and then don't". I said that so many say that and then do have that birth. As it turns it out I didn't give birth to my Dd in the way I wanted. And that casual comment stuck in my head. I felt I failed as it was and that comment just echoed around in my head. Did what she say help me? No. Why the need to tell a woman things may be different in that way? Most are smart enough to figure that out. Saying it to prove a point is rather self serving and rude, imo. Maybe if it was a close friend or family member reminding gently that flexibility is helpful, then it wouldn't be an issue. That is not, however, the impression given by the op.
post #44 of 102
i roasted a chicken 2 days ago! if by roasting, you mean throwing a frozen bird into the crockpot with veggies and water and letting it go for 8 hours!

one thing that struck me was that i thought once my first was born, as OPs have said, i'd stop hearing it. but then, it became, "just wait until he turns 2!" or my new favorite: "wait until the second [third, fourth, etc.] is born!" you can't win.
post #45 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmk123 View Post
I hate it when people tell me that I cannot possibly know what I will do when I actually have a baby, about how I will raise them and what I will and will not do.

...Because hubby and I already do, at least 85% of the time, it will require no change in our lifestyle at all...
I get comments about CDing a lot. What people forget about us is that we already wash fil's clothes and sheets almost everyday and they are always "messy". And honestly, some days I feel like taking care of a baby will be far easier than taking care of fil.

My upset comes from feeling like my choices/decisions aren't being supported. And I'm not that that crunchy! For Christmas, I received a ton of disposables, instead of the requested cloth diapers. I want to say, the decisions I am making, I am not making on a whim! But I have no patience at all with this pregnancy so I just say, "uh-huh, ok" to avoid any discussions. Because it's not really a discussion, it's more of why the other person is right and I am wrong, kind of talk.

I can be flexible, I'd like to hear other mom's experiences, crunchy or not. Just please don't dismiss what I would like to do...
post #46 of 102
i hated that too - i wouldnt know I would breastfeed or I can't say for sure I won't spank my kids... yeah... annoying...
post #47 of 102
A corollary of "you can't possibly know what you'll do" is "what you're doing now is sooooo easy!" It's also a sort of way people have of asserting that they know better than the people addressed, because their own children are older. I find "Babies are so much easier than teenagers" to be a little off-putting. I don't think teenagers are easy at all! (I host my little sister, a teenager, every summer for a couple of weeks. I don't imagine that's the same as being the parent of a teenager, but I don't think that just because you can go to the grocery store without company it means your life is easy.) However, I think people who feel that one stage of parenting is really harder than another are probably just forgetting what the other was like. Mamas who have both toddlers and teenagers, am I wrong?
post #48 of 102
I must admit. I was very mainstream before having my first child. Let's see I was sure that:

1. I'd never cosleep with my baby (when we got home I cried at the very thought of her not sleeping with us)

2. I'd do CIO when she turned 6 months old (Um, NO WAY! Couldn't do it! Sounded good on paper but the reality of leaving a sweet helpless baby to cry and scream until she fell asleep... horrifying!)

3. I wouldn't be one of those nuts who make their own baby food. Gerber does a fine job with it. (I used Gerber most of the time with first child, never bought baby food for 2nd or 3rd children.)

4. Babywearing is too complicated to get and not for me. (When you have a high-needs baby like my first you change your mind real fast!)

5. I'd use disposables for the convenience. (I started using cd with #3, when #2 was still wearing dipes and the cost for my sensitive skin kids who could only wear Pampers was staggering.)

Those are the only examples I can think of right now. Really though, I changed a LOT over the years. I'm not completely crunchy... but not anywhere near as soggy as I used to be.

What I'm trying to say is, when you have a baby your whole life changes. And that's probably what others mean when they say things like that.

Beth
post #49 of 102
I think it makes more sense to say "You won't know until YOU have YOUR baby." Because every birth and every baby is unique. Yours may be totally compatible with your plans, or not at all, or (usually) somewhere in between. But it would just be plain silly for me to tell people that, say, breastfeeding is difficult for all mothers, just because it didn't work for me and DS. Or that no one can have a drug-free birth, or for that matter an easy C-section, just because what I had was a vaginal birth with epidural.

With CDs (we use both CDs and disposables), I have found that people usually take back their "it's too hard, I could never do that" statements when I tell them that modern ones have snaps and "velcro" (no one in my acquaintance knows what Aplix is). I think it's really the idea of pins that make people nervous.
post #50 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by Momily View Post
If someone said to me, I plan on using cloth because protecting the environment is really important to me, I'd say good for you, or what a great choice, and I'd support them by buying diapers as a shower gift or whatever. But if they say "I'm using cloth because it's easy, it won't be a change for me" I'm going to think "first time parent, good luck with that".

When my son was an infant, and we were struggling with a lot of medical things that kept us up all night I remember throwing out 3 successive batches of formula because I feel asleep standing up while counting out the scoops. Now making formula is not exactly gourmet cooking. You measure some water, count out about 6 scoops, close the lid and shake. It's significantly easier than cooking rice or dry pasta. And yet, on that particular day it was beyond my capabilities. And while I was still committed to cooking most of my own food when he was that age, my definition of cooking shifted rapidly from "following a recipe to prepare some delicious treat" to "throw a piece of salmon under the broiler, take it out when it's black around the edges, eat it with a banana and a green pepper (eaten whole like an apple so I don't have to wash a knife) and maybe a piece of dry whole grain toast".
ITA. Planning on doing something because of your values can be a wonderful thing. Because it is easy or won't be a change, is, imo, naive. However, this doesn't mean people should shove an "I know better" attitude in your face, or clearly disrespect your opinions by buying you disposables when you said you would use cloth. I thought one of the good traits of parenting was how humbling it can be. If parents are truly humble, they will realize that everyone has different expectations and experiences and that just because XYZ did or did not work for them does not mean they can apply that same experience to another parent or parent to be.

Totally OT:
::
Momily, thank you so much for posting this. It totally cracked me up and made my day. I did the exact same thing with my DS. I just could NOT count. Sleep depravation is one of the worst forms of torture, yk? I am sorry you had to go through this, but glad someone can relate and look back on it, not in sorrow or desperation, but with acceptance and a grin. For several years I also went from gourmet to salmon saute and whole pepper on the side. I still haven't "fully recovered" - and that acceptance of a more casual way is a good thing, imo.
post #51 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by Momily View Post
I think the things you're talking about doing -- homemade organic babyfood, cloth diapers etc . . . are certainly doable, and worth it, and wonderful things to do, they do represent a change or a stretch. Washing the volume of cloth diapers your child will go through is substantially different from washing a much smaller volume of mama cloth, preparing food when you're too tired to see straight, and distracted by an infant, and can't use any techniques that might splatter because said infant is strapped to your chest, is substantially different from cooking.
This is a good point.

You know, it is so funny because when my ds suddenly arrived in our house (first as a foster placement), he was this little newborn baby. Everyone in our faith community asked what they could do to help. I immediately thought, "food!" and asked them to bring over some food to help us keep nourished through the day (which was really, really good because even without having just gone through childbirth, there were still some days when at the end of the day with ds, I'd realized all I'd had to eat was a granola bar or something). Then they asked what kind of food, and I immediately said: "soup." Soup to me is a total comfort food, and it is something warm...and since we're vegetarians, usually packed with veggies so nutrient dense.

My dw later said, "you know, soup was probably not such a good idea." Then she proceeded to point out that with the babe in a sling, we'd be at risk for dripping hot soup all over him, and it takes a longer time to eat soup than many other types of foods, and...and...the list went on. Now, I have spent a LOT of time with babies, but it had been a while since any of them were quite that little and in-arms ALL the time like that. I just wasn't quite picturing it the way it was really going to be. I even forgot some of this stuff in between #1 and #2.

I still loved every sip of soup over those weeks, but she was right. The soup was harder to manage than the other foods people brought us. You may be smarter than me, and perhaps you wouldn't have asked for soup...but my point is that your picture of what it is going to be like is always going to be incomplete until the baby arrives.

Quote:
If someone said to me, I plan on using cloth because protecting the environment is really important to me, I'd say good for you, or what a great choice, and I'd support them by buying diapers as a shower gift or whatever. But if they say "I'm using cloth because it's easy, it won't be a change for me" I'm going to think "first time parent, good luck with that".
True. When I use cloth pads, I am washing a maximum of 3 pads per day for 5-7 days. They are small and simple to rinse and then throw in with the rest of the wash. There really is no comparison between cloth diapers and cloth pads, except that the nice feel of cloth against my skin in comparison to the disposable pads helps in its own little way to keep me motivated to use cloth with my kids. Kids alone can add loads to your laundry...then mix in cloth diapers, and it is definitely loads more laundry (pun intended ). Which is fine (I mean, we do it), but there are definitely times when we are really exhausted or otherwise finding it very hard to keep up.

By the way, if you have diaper service in your area and can swing it, I would highly recommend it. I used diaper service with ds when he was younger, and let me tell you, I actually have fantasies now of getting diaper service.

Quote:
When my son was an infant, and we were struggling with a lot of medical things that kept us up all night I remember throwing out 3 successive batches of formula because I feel asleep standing up while counting out the scoops. Now making formula is not exactly gourmet cooking. You measure some water, count out about 6 scoops, close the lid and shake. It's significantly easier than cooking rice or dry pasta.
OMG! I'd completely forgotten the extreme nature of mom-to-newborn exhaustion. Yes, yes, I've so been there in almost the exact same scenario! Thanks for a trip down memory lane! Now when I talk about cooking with kids, I am of course talking as the mom of kids who can play by themselves (somewhat) while I try to throw together a meal. This colors my perception. But when they were really tiny still?! OMG! Yes, I fell asleep once doing the dishes. I baked a cake (from a box!!) for my dw's birthday and forgot eggs! Then in a second try, I baked a cake (from a box, same day!!) and accidently doubled the milk. I threw out two cakes that day. Most of the time, I never did make it into the kitchen at all.

LOL Oh, the memories are pouring back! I once fell asleep during a middle-of-the-night feeding and woke up feeding my son's ear.

Quote:
my definition of cooking shifted rapidly from "following a recipe to prepare some delicious treat" to "throw a piece of salmon under the broiler, take it out when it's black around the edges, eat it with a banana and a green pepper (eaten whole like an apple so I don't have to wash a knife) and maybe a piece of dry whole grain toast".
LOL Oh yes, been there too!

Quote:
I completely understand where you're coming from, you're really committed to these ideals and I know from my own experience that that committment is key.
Yes, it is the key. And I still think out of all the things as a parent you say you are going to do, these are probably among those that will be easiest to stick to. At least if you are like me.

For me, my bigger challenges are around things like not throwing the baby out the window when I've been up all night with a fussy one . Totally kidding of course. But kidding aside, in the scheme of things, a commitment to homeade food for one's baby is probably not the first that will be broken.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kssinca View Post
I get comments about CDing a lot. What people forget about us is that we already wash fil's clothes and sheets almost everyday and they are always "messy". And honestly, some days I feel like taking care of a baby will be far easier than taking care of fil.
Probably, but doing both at once?! That's going to be a washing machine on all day long!

Quote:
My upset comes from feeling like my choices/decisions aren't being supported. And I'm not that that crunchy! For Christmas, I received a ton of disposables, instead of the requested cloth diapers.
How terribly annoying. That would get under my skin too. Like I said in my earlier post, I really do think you have every right to be bugged.

Quote:
I can be flexible, I'd like to hear other mom's experiences, crunchy or not. Just please don't dismiss what I would like to do...
I hope nothing I've said has been dismissive. I have a commitment to all the same kinds of things, and have largely stuck with my commitments. And I think those comments *are* annoying and can be very dismissive of your parenting philosophy, so I totally get why you are irritated.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Swandira View Post
A corollary of "you can't possibly know what you'll do" is "what you're doing now is sooooo easy!" It's also a sort of way people have of asserting that they know better than the people addressed, because their own children are older. I find "Babies are so much easier than teenagers" to be a little off-putting. . . . However, I think people who feel that one stage of parenting is really harder than another are probably just forgetting what the other was like. Mamas who have both toddlers and teenagers, am I wrong?
I was a foster mom of teens not that long before my little ones, and yes, I think both present different kinds of hardships. Even after the very real challenges of parenting teens (which I loved), the newborn phase (though I loved it), certainly kicked my butt.

I also think for parents of teens, in the years that have slipped by, the intensity of newborn-phase or toddler-phase memories have faded. So while they remember the challenges and can acknowledge them, in the intensity of their experiences with their teens, they can't quite fully grasp that the two may very well be at the same level just in very different ways.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lolar2 View Post
With CDs (we use both CDs and disposables), I have found that people usually take back their "it's too hard, I could never do that" statements when I tell them that modern ones have snaps and "velcro" (no one in my acquaintance knows what Aplix is). I think it's really the idea of pins that make people nervous.
This is a good point. A lot of people don't really have a grasp on what cloth diapering entails these days. Many who cloth diapered even twenty years ago also remember leaking diapers. Cloth has come a long way in just a couple of decades! Oh, and don't forget diaper service, which I already plugged .
post #52 of 102
I didn't read all the responses, but I have to say... I DID change a lot of my ideas after I had my baby (for the good, I think ). But really- it IS hard to know what parenting will be like. That's not to say people should be saying "Just wait...!", but I remember having a big long argument with my mom because she said laughing "Your life will never be the same! Everything will change!" and I took offense... Just because I had a baby didn't mean EVERYTHING had to change! But ya know? She was right. Everything changed, but in a way that was great and I wouldn't change back for the world. When I humbly told her she was right, but it changed in a good way, she laughed again and said "I know! That's what I was trying to tell you! But to tell you how everything will change, it will be the hardest thing you will ever do but you will not want your old life back isn't something you can really understand before you do it." Right again, mom .

I think it is also important to be open to changing your mind. I think new, first time moms get locked into this idea of having been so committed to a certain aspect of child-rearing pre-baby that when the baby comes, if it is not working (or not working perfectly) we feel guilty or like a failure when that is not the case.

Again, all this is not to say that people who say "Just wait...!" aren't rude- or wrong. You totally CAN do all those things.

Also, this is a good lesson in IGNORING people as politely as possible. As a parent, you will get a slew of unwanted but well intentioned advice. It is important to learn how to let it go. When people would say to me "Just wait...!" I'd usually say something like "Well, I'm gonna try it... I hope I can do it" and smile ... and change the subject. If they laugh good naturedly in a "uh huh- we'll see!" type way, I'd let them laugh. Who cares?
post #53 of 102
My SIL is like that. I figure, I will eventually have more kids than she, and until then, this is how it'll be . As a pp said, it'll be "wait till you have two...etc". She'll stop at two and we hope to have four....so...
post #54 of 102
I didn't have to deal too much with the "You won't know until you have kids..." other than one... lady... who would constantly use her kids to get out of having to work. (She was normally found at bars when she had said she was taking her kid to a doctor or something.) "You'll understand when you have kids" was actually her way of saying she was better than me because, at the time, I didn't think I COULD have children. She was, at one point, saying that I would understand how important children are when I said I couldn't cover for her one night while she was wanting to get out of work to go do something with her son or whatever. (As if I don't have things to do too?)

Well, in some ways she was right. Spending time with DS was more important than I had anticipated. It was so important, in fact, that I quit working at that place rather than try to dump my workload off on other people. Go fig.

Essentially, though, I didn't get most of the "you'll do it differently when he comes" stuff because I always opened up a statement with "I want to do x" or "I'm 99% sure I'll do." When asked why I was 100% committed, I would say that there's always the chance that something could come up. After all, it's all well and good to say you won't have any medication during childbirth... until the point where a complication arises. When asked how sure I was that I would breastfeed, I said 99% because I had heard of too many women at that point with supply issues. (One's baby was even allergic to her milk.) Good thing I wasn't 100% since that 1% came up with my son, and I'm now having to supplement.

BTW, I was also 100% against ever co-sleeping. I started co-sleeping while still in the hospital with him. (It was amazing to me when I asked the nurse if it was alright, and she replied, "I don't see why not. Women have been doing it for 1000s of years.)

The worst stuff came after DS was born, though. "You're going to regret doing that..." Like I'm going to regret holding my son or breastfeeding him or co-sleeping.
post #55 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sierra View Post
I baked a cake (from a box!!) for my dw's birthday and forgot eggs! Then in a second try, I baked a cake (from a box, same day!!) and accidently doubled the milk. I threw out two cakes that day. Most of the time, I never did make it into the kitchen at all.
If you ever ruin another cake (assuming you didn't put, like, laundry starch in it): crumble it up, mix it to a moldable consistency with some frosting and/ or booze of some kind (anything cake-y, like rum, bourbon, or sweet liqueur), and shape it into one-inch balls. Freeze on a cookie sheet until firm. Dip in melted chocolate or white chocolate, or I guess you could roll them in something like powdered sugar or coconut or whatever (haven't tried that).

Quote:
LOL Oh, the memories are pouring back! I once fell asleep during a middle-of-the-night feeding and woke up feeding my son's ear.
I woke up trying to put his bottle in his eye one night! He wasn't too happy about that.
post #56 of 102
Argh, I get this stuff too sometimes, even though I try to keep my plans/ideas to myself as much as possible. There are two different ideas running through my head:

1. Of course, everytbody is right; we can't know until we get there. Duh.

2. BUT, doesn't it make more sense to have a plan, an idea, a value system?

Take labor and birth; since I'm pregnant with # 1, obviously I don't know what labor will feel like. How could I? But does that mean that I shouldn't have a plan, based on my values, of what I WANT to do? It's not likely that someone would get a drug-free, intervention-free birth (in a hospital) without thinking about it ahead of time.
post #57 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by WeasleyMum View Post
Argh, I get this stuff too sometimes, even though I try to keep my plans/ideas to myself as much as possible. There are two different ideas running through my head:

1. Of course, everytbody is right; we can't know until we get there. Duh.

2. BUT, doesn't it make more sense to have a plan, an idea, a value system?

Take labor and birth; since I'm pregnant with # 1, obviously I don't know what labor will feel like. How could I? But does that mean that I shouldn't have a plan, based on my values, of what I WANT to do? It's not likely that someone would get a drug-free, intervention-free birth (in a hospital) without thinking about it ahead of time.
Of course it makes sense to have a plans and commitments to certain ideals.

However, don't hold yourself to those ideals, and give yourself the flexibility and space to change courses if things aren't going exactly as planned. I think a lot of mamas experience a ton of angst and guilt when things don't turn out exactly the way that they envisioned, and the point that many of us are trying to make is: you don't have to do that to yourself. Yes, motherhood is amazing, but it's hard enough as it is, so try not to go and set these lofty goals for yourself to the point that you might end up disappointed or feel like a poseur or a failure if things don't go quite exactly as planned.

I don't think it's "duh" for a lot of women, especially those of us that tend to (over)think, (over)plan and (over)control.
post #58 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by WeasleyMum View Post
1. Of course, everytbody is right; we can't know until we get there. Duh.

2. BUT, doesn't it make more sense to have a plan, an idea, a value system?
Well put. After all my rambling, you were able to sum up things I was thinking very nicely.
post #59 of 102
i got through almost all the posts, but i have limited time so i'm posting now.

i think the huge problem i have had with people making these types of comments to me is that they are assuming i am making this decision on a whim, like i dont research and work out what will be best for my family. maybe its because they made decisions on a whim, i dont know.
i decided to cloth diaper, exclusively breast feed, co-sleep, babywear, not have any bottles or pacifiers, no plastic toys, not vax and have a natural home birth.
all of these decisions i made with great care knowing they would be best for our family and work well in our situation, but everyone i meet tells me how its all going to crumble one day or that i WILL need to give my baby a pacifier at one point.
they reacted the same way when i was pregnant as they do now once the baby is out. the comments never really stop, and the worst part is, if something DOES change and you want advice from one of those moms who told you your first plan would never work, they give you a HUGE lecture on how they "told you so"!
its a double edged sword. no one wins, i usually just keep to myself about my lifestyle choices and let my happy baby make the first impressions.
post #60 of 102
I just wonder why people feel the need to ask obvious questions when it comes to this type of thing. Like:

"I plan to breastfeed."
"But what if you can't breastfeed?"
are they expecting "Then I'll do it anyways, dammit!"

or

"I'm planning a homebirth."
"but what if you need a c-section?"
obviously the answer would be "then I'll transfer and have a c-section." are they expecting "That's what butcher knives are for!"?

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