18 month old not yet vaccinated...

[Ganesh78]

Hi there ~
New to this posting thing but have been reading other posts and getting info from these forums before. My firstborn son is now 18 months old - was vax'd at 2 months of age (except for Hep B) and felt very uncomfortable about it. Since then I have done research and held off with the routine immunizations. I have now returned to this issue mostly due to pressure from my husband as we have our one month old newborn in the house now. He is concerned that our toddler may transmit something to the newborn as he's in playgroups etc etc. I keep avoiding the idea of vaccinating altogether. But I need to make some decisions. My partner thinks that we should get the 2 month old vax for the new baby just as we did with the first for SOME protection but I do not agree. The toddler I am willing to discuss but the more I read the less I want to do go ahead. The Dtap (according to Dr Sears) is basically unnecessary after 2 years of age, the MMR I have strong feelings against and the chicken pox is totally out of the question as I don't feel threatened by the chicken pox. My siblings and I all had it and everyone else I know growing up and we are all fine. Any thoughts, advice on what I have rambled on about. I feel a bit torn. Thanks.

[Marnica]

My advice is do nothing until you can feel 100% comfortable with what you decide. I have read too many stories and talked to too many moms about exactly what you are describing. Indecision...not feeling comfortable with vaxing but going ahaed and doing it any way "jus to be safe" and them deeply regretting it. You can always vax later, but once you do you can't take it out. Please do your research before concenting to any vaccine. Read the package insert word for word!
My advice is look at each disease and each vaccine for that disease and compare he risk vs the benefits of each one. Can I ask specifically which ones you are considering for your newborn and your toddler.
I have an 8 month old unvaxed son and I have not found any disease where I feel the risk of contracting it is greater than the risk of the vaccine.
I hear your DH's concern, but it seems like he is assuming your toddler is harboring all sorts of VPD's...the most likely scenario is that your toddler may bring home colds from being in playgroups. imo the best thing to do is work on keeping your kiddos immune system strong. Do you BF? this confers immunity for many of the diseases for at least 6 months, maybe longer making less of a case for certain vaxes...

[Emmeline II]

My toddler made out with shopping cart handles, ate candy off the floor of the zoo , and played with the same toys at the museum as children with hacking coughs and did not get sick and neither did my unvaxed babe.
Here are some questions to answer for yourself in deciding not to vax.

1. Name of the disease
2. Description of the disease
3. Length of time from initial infection to end of all symptoms
4. Infectious period
5. Normal symptoms of the disease
6. Known serious consequences of the disease
7. Proportion of persons infected developing serious consequences
8. Transmission route of the disease
9. Prevalence of the disease
10. Treatments of the disease and efficacy of those treatments
11. Relevant research about the disease
12. Name of the vaccine
13. Company that makes the vaccine
14. Contents of the vaccine
14A. The significance of whether or not the vaccine is live
15. History of development of the vaccine
16. Known side-effects of the vaccine and rate of incidence of those side-effects
17. Possible side-effects not yet acknowledged by the vaccine maker
18. Relevant research into the vaccine
19. How effective is the vaccine at preventing the disease?
20.What is the vaccine meant to do? (Many vaccines are not meant to prevent infection or transmission).
21.Number of cases reported each year.
22.Number of deaths reported each year from the vaccine and natural disease.

Here are some sources to help you out:

Inside Vaccines

http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/mmwr_wk.html (download the current issue)
http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/pubs/pin...k-chapters.htm
http://vaers.hhs.gov/pdf/PackageInserts.pdf
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...40451107552&q=
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...87981735&hl=en
http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/pubs/pin...ses&deaths.pdf

[Gitti]

A very good blog worth reading -

www.insidevaccines.com/wordpress

And I wanted to tell you to this forum.

[Marnica]

deleted

[julw3]

I just want to say I wouldn't do it unless you feel comfortable- this is your mama instict talking to you. I have 3 children 9, 6 and 2 and not one of them has had a vax and are totally healthy and bright children. If they did get one of the diseases (which are rare here) we live in a country with adequate healthcare and after reading up on vaxes I have not felt comfortable injecting them with toxins etc that only hurt and compromise the immune system. But these are only our thoughts and what we have chosen to do for our *family*. You need to do what you feel is best for your children.

Julie

[Debnicolai]

It was pointed out to my father, at the Bronx Zoo in 1964 when I was 1 year old, that I was licking the bars on one of the cages. My father, who was at the time a NYU graduate and a Biology professor calmly responded, "That is what she has an immune system for."

He gave me some sort of snack to distract me from the teething and we went about our day. He always thought that ingesting minute particles of everyday biology was actually a good thing.

The way he understood the body worked was that natural ingestion kicked off a chain of events where the baby's body would meet and greet the intruder, learn what it was and how to keep it in check, use it, or defeat it. He said normal 'dirt' that a human could get in to a mouth or ear or nose by way of a finger or a hand was kind of what we were set up for.

He is in his 70s now, so is mom. Neither is or ever has been on any long term meds. No glasses, both physically active. My brother and myself and my son, rarely get anything serious and no one has vaccines. My Parents did get Polio orally, but nothing else made sense to them so they have declined all else. It was easier back then to say no.

Not so easy now. All I can say is DO YOUR RESEARCH. Read and read and read again. You can always choose to vaccinate, you can NEVER choose to UN Vaccinate.

[AislinCarys]

1. You are aware that giving the 2 month vaccines would only give your child ONE dose of any one of the vaccines? And of course, for most, if not all of them(except flu and possibly tbc, don't know about CP) you need a course of 2 or more doses to be vaccinated. Which means your child' s body would still have to deal with all the ingredients in the vaccine, but still not "immune" even to the standards of the CDC!

2. As it takes several doses for "immunity", it would take at least six months to get there (so a baby under 6 months is unprotected in any case - incidentially the time they are most at risk.).

[Ganesh78]

Thanks for the responses so far. I appreciate all the links and resources that were posted and sent to me. Now it's just a matter of going through them...:-)

I did BF my son until he was one year and then once I was about a few months pregnant he was no longer interested. That was somewhat disappointing as I'd hoped to BF longer. BFing my newborn now and hope to as long as we can.

I think that as a mom, and maybe I am speaking just for myself, the mother ends up doing a lot of seeking out information, researching, asking questions - more so than the husbands?? So it's really a matter of sitting down with him and going through a lot of this vaccine info (which can be very overwhelming) so as to reassure him that we have made a good decision. I know that I've tried that before too but I often "lose" him when relaying all the info that I have found. Going with my mama instinct I want to hold off on vaxing my babies until I or they feel it's absolutely necessary (for travel, work etc). However, what I really need to do is feel 100% confident in my decision so that I can defend it if need be and not feel nervous or worried when they do come down with something. Especially because I do feel that it's in my hands. My mother is on board with my decision, my dr is accepting of it but still tries to encourage me to reexamine the issue. Everyone else I feel it's really no one's business. Even my closest friends I don't really discuss this with & only would if they outright asked me my opinion. I think what bothers me the most is that people just assume that doctors are brilliant and know everything and we should do all that they tell us to do with our children. I am a nurse and work with many doctors and I see errors happening everyday and the reality is doctors and the medical field do not know all and they certainly have their share of screw ups. That was a mouthful....so even writing this I feel myself getting a bit worked up. :-) Thanks for all the info. Will spend some time looking over all of it although I did about a year ago and just need to remind myself why I made my decision initially. thanks again

[applejuice]

Make the decision that YOU can live with.

Because you will.

[swissmom]

Your husband only has the best in mind for his kids, that's for sure. But I bet his fear only stems from not being informed enough. This is natural, everybody would be scared of diseases given only the information we get from agencies and doctors. Have your husband read as well - and I am sure his perception of the seriousness of diseases and the risks/benefits of vaccines will change.

Start with his most serious concern: the transmitting of VPD's. Does he know that many vaccines don't prevent transmission (for example Pertussis and Diphteria)? Read this.

This community offers a wealth of information (personal experiences, books, links to studies, other info...), let you husband dig in! I personally introduced my husband with this article to the topic - which gave him a glimpse of how obnoxiously vaccines are pushed by means of fearmongering and propaganda.