AIDS and circ article

[Sparks*]

can I get the mothering's recent article "circumcision does not prevent AIDS" online? I'm guessing probably not because of copyright issues, but I really want to have my friend read that article, and I don't have my copy on me She's saying that she would circ her son, if she ever had one, because it prevents AIDS. : I told her that that is not the case, and that the best prevention against std's is condoms. Are there any other good articles out there that may help me to show her the light? TIA!

[Fellow Traveler]

I know that article is available as a PDF from somewhere, I posted a link to it a while back though I can't remember where I found it. Try searching the archives (I'll do the same) and read my recent post that talks about the numbers.

[1littlebit]

ask her how she thinks circ prevents aids. i had a friend who fought me to death on that. she looked for awhile and then conceded that i was correct once she realized the studies were a complete mess and literally proved nothing except that some researchers need to study the scientific method a little better next time.

[Sparks*]

thanks mamas!! I'm putting together an email for her, and I've included your awesome analysis jwhispers. I was trying to talk to her, but she got all flustered. Hopefully this will spark up the conversation again

and thanks to the mom who just emailed me the pdf of the mothering article! you guys rock!!

[1littlebit]

sometimes giving someone time to think about things gives them a chance to process and get out of defensive mode. when circ came up i used to say no thats not true when people were misinformed. then i learned that people don't seem to like that and it makes them dig their heels in farther.

i have started asking them where they found that information or something like that in a wow i'm curious and would love to learn kind of way. usually they have their defenses down and will work it out on their own. i also think turning information into a story it helps. like 'gosh when i was pg with my son i..."

[kriket]

I tell people that give me this arguement that if you cut the entire penis off AIDS transmission will be even less


:


Why is this AIDS thing so popular?! I'm still mad at starbucks (well more upset then usual) at the RED campaign. I'm also annoyed at the Bill and Melinda Gates foundation.

[glongley]

Here are a couple of useful links to concise handouts on the counter arguments to the HIV/circ issue.

http://www.coloradonocirc.org/files/...ing_Points.pdf
http://www.icgi.org/aids/

See also a compilation of resources on the HIV/circ issues (including the above, and much more) at:
http://www.coloradonocirc.org/hiv.php

Gillian

[Sparks*]

hmmm, maybe I shouldn't have emailed her then...I don't know. We've talked about circ before, and I've sent her tons of info on it, and she's been really receptive to it. I think this is just her last thread that she's holding onto, ykwim? It just got brought up because we were talking about how she thought it was horrible to suction a baby out of the birth canal...you know with the vacuum type cup they put on their heads? She said she knew that must hurt them and it's no excuse to do something that hurts a baby just because they won't remember it. Of course I saw the window of opportunity and dove right in She then went right into the AIDS bologna. I just don't want to come on too hard, and put her on the defensive...but then, we're pretty good friends and I'm always sending her stuff on facebook and she sees me handing out pamphlets to expecting moms and my bumper sticker and all that, so she knows I'm pretty hard core

[1littlebit]

hey your friends are better then mine! i have convinced two out of the four of them not to circ but the other two just won't listen. they have no reason to circ. they say the baby won't remember it and guys who are circ'd think its good b/c foreskin is gross. o and they say their brothers are circ'd and they are fine and their parents wouldn't have done it if it wasn't right. i

they also said that we can't talk about it. they are hardcore pro life as in the baby has no choice etc. i said why is that abortion is wrong because the baby has no choice but circ is ok? he still has no choice. they got mad. really really mad. it was crazy. these are my best friends and i couldn't believe it. one of them read the circ description in doctor sears book and she agrees with me 100%. one i won over with the reasons why christians shouldn't circ. but these two just can't get it.

[Sparks*]

I think I may have won her over!! :

she just finished reading my email and asked me a couple of questions. "so, are you saying that these are the benefits of being circ'd versus being intact?...that's nothing compared to the benefits of just using a condom....you're right, you shouldn't make a decision on your son in the US based on the actions and [flawed]statistics of men in africa...they're completely unrelated."

woo hoo!!! I really don't think she has anything else left to hang onto in regards to being pro-circ. I'm not going to get my hopes up too high though...who knows what she may come back with.

on a side note, she was also telling me how she was completely against getting her daughter's ears pierced as an infant, even though it's a huge part of her culture. She said that she felt like it was her body and she should let her make the decision. I then promptly said that I felt the exact same way about my son's penis. It belongs to him, and I have no right cutting any part of it off. She just looked at me with a kind of "ooohhhhh, I get it now" expression...although she didn't say anything.

[lechepatito]

Any luck finding this article anywhere? I've looked in the archives and can't turn it up.

[glongley]

See this link at NOCIRC for the article.

Giillian

[lechepatito]

Thanks, Gillian! I desperately wanted it to pass to someone, and can't put my hands on that Mothering issue (I know it's in a box somewhere....).