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For the good of one... or of many?  

post #1 of 13
Thread Starter 
Hello Ladies,

I haven't been here for a while and apologize for coming back with a rant but I am growing increasingly frustrated about something and would like to pick your minds...

I was listening to the This American Life Podcast this weekend (it was a couple of weeks old) and the topic of the show was Bad Apples (people who ruin it for everyone else). There was an interesting piece on team dynamics and then a story about the non vaxing family in San Diego, CA who brought back Measles from Switzerland and caused quite a stir. The author of the piece was rather pro-vax (or maybe I was just being overly sensitive) and most of the people interviewed were pro-vax and the things they said about the non vaxers were infuriating (like non vaxers should go live on their own island... if only that were an option! lol!) but what really got to me was when Dr. Bob Sears came on as the non/alternative vax advocate and basically said that non-vaxers are afraid of vaccinations and are thinking of their own child before the public health community.

Then there was this Private Practice episode that featured a similar topic and women I engage with on another message board are discussing it and are so sad for us poor, fearful non-vaxers.

WHAT?! Are they kidding?

As I was listening to This American Life (before Dr. Bob came on) I was thinking: here's what people don't get. Non vaxers aren't afraid... they aren't the ones choosing the one over the many. In fact, it is quite the opposite. Non-vaxers are actually trying to change the system (by setting an example) to benefit the many.


I get that today's public health system is based on the public health system of yesteryear... I get that my choice not to vax may appear not to be in support of public health, but maybe it's time to consider that the meaning of public health is changing. I am not afraid of vaccines or afraid of vax-preventable illnesses... I am afraid of what will continue to happen to us if we let medical intervention into our bodies at such an alarming rate.

I know that if everyone stopped vaxing we would lose some lives, and I know if someone close to me was lost I would be devastated, but I am not entirely sure that preserving every single life through these means is worth it to the rest of society. I should probably let it go (like most things!) but I am bothered by the fact that vaxing parents see me as selfish for not vaxing my child. I don't assume they are selfish, I assume they are doing the best they can with the information they have... I wish I got the same benefit of the doubt.

Thoughts?
post #2 of 13
They can bleat about the common good as much as they like, or whine that we're afraid, irresponsible, selfish, ignorant, or whatever other smears they can come up with. I'm still not injecting my son with poison just because they did.

I don't know anyone who has done a lot of reading about vaccines who didn't at least delay or modify the CDC's ridiculous schedule. I know a lot of people who blindly vaccinate and will proudly tell you that they have no idea what's in those shots. It's hard to take the latter sort of person seriously about anything at all.
post #3 of 13
Not selfish, but negligent?
post #4 of 13
To believe that non-vaxers are negligent, you'd have to believe in two basic premises: that vaccines are effective at improving overall human health, and that the vaccine-available diseases are as dangerous and ready to explode into a pandemic as they (mainstream "health" authorities) would like us to believe.

I accept neither premise, so I don't believe that not vaccinating is negligence. If anything, the vaccinators are harming us all because they're depriving children of childhood diseases that may have some benefit (i.e. measles) while tampering with Nature's ability to confer immunity to those diseases well into adulthood and old age (times when the diseases are far more dangerous). And don't even get me started on serotype replacement.
post #5 of 13
Two comments:

- My responsibility is to my child. I am not going to inject her with things to protect anyone else. I don't expect anyone else to be injected in order to protect her either, it goes both ways.

- I made a decision soon after she was born, while we were still on the fence about vaccines, that I would not make a choice based on fear. Both sides can use a lot of fear mongering, and I chose not to listen to it. I don't fear vaccines, and I don't fear VADs.... I did a lot of research and came to a clear-headed conclusion.

The idea that it is the non-vax side that is uneducated drives me insane. I am sure that there are parents out there that aren't vaxing merely because they can't be bothered to take their kid to the doctor, but if that is the case I imagine there is a whole host of other parenting problems there.

I would be willing to bet that most people who vax their kids according to the schedule don't even know what diseases are being vaxed against, let alone what the ingredients and risks are. I can rattle off the schedule off the top of my head, but if I were to ask my friend what their kid just got shot up with, the answer would be "the six months ones."

Not everyone is going to agree with my choice, and that is their perogative. But don't call me afraid, and don't dare call me ignorant.
post #6 of 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by peainthepod View Post
To believe that non-vaxers are negligent, you'd have to believe in two basic premises: that vaccines are effective at improving overall human health, and that the vaccine-available diseases are as dangerous and ready to explode into a pandemic as they (mainstream "health" authorities) would like us to believe.

I accept neither premise, so I don't believe that not vaccinating is negligence. If anything, the vaccinators are harming us all because they're depriving children of childhood diseases that may have some benefit (i.e. measles) while tampering with Nature's ability to confer immunity to those diseases well into adulthood and old age (times when the diseases are far more dangerous). And don't even get me started on serotype replacement.
This is totally how I feel. Well said .
post #7 of 13
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by just_lily View Post
The idea that it is the non-vax side that is uneducated drives me insane.
Exactly... the end of the T.A.L. report stated that the CDC had been holding focus groups to improve (pro) vax education and they were at a loss for what to do, because while in the past lower income children without access to doctors were the ones not getting vaxed NOW it is actually the children of well off and highly educated parents.

Poor CDC, there's just no convincing those educated people.

um... hello?! why isn't anyone else seeing that maybe the "problem" is not what they think it is...
post #8 of 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by just_lily View Post
I would be willing to bet that most people who vax their kids according to the schedule don't even know what diseases are being vaxed against, let alone what the ingredients and risks are. I can rattle off the schedule off the top of my head, but if I were to ask my friend what their kid just got shot up with, the answer would be "the six months ones."
Exactly.
post #9 of 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by megababymomma View Post
I know that if everyone stopped vaxing we would lose some lives, and I know if someone close to me was lost I would be devastated, but I am not entirely sure that preserving every single life through these means is worth it to the rest of society.
Right. Its not just life itself that is important its quality of life.
post #10 of 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by megababymomma View Post
Exactly... the end of the T.A.L. report stated that the CDC had been holding focus groups to improve (pro) vax education and they were at a loss for what to do, because while in the past lower income children without access to doctors were the ones not getting vaxed NOW it is actually the children of well off and highly educated parents.

Poor CDC, there's just no convincing those educated people.

um... hello?! why isn't anyone else seeing that maybe the "problem" is not what they think it is...
Yeah, wasn't there an article that called non-vaccination a "hobby of the educated, upper-middle class" or something like that?
post #11 of 13
The people who know we are non-vaxers either agree with our decision, or think we are totally being risky and foolish. It doesn't matter how much reading, study, discussion, etc. we have done. It doesn't matter that we know far more about the subject than they ever will. All that matters is that we are not following the accepted and approved schedule, therefore we are putting our children and everyone around us at risk. I don't think it matters that we are highly educated, motivated parents who have made a well-researched decision. I wish that people would just take a clue that we are not interested in jabbing ourselves or our children with hazardous waste, and no amount of "education" will change our minds.
post #12 of 13
You know, this is one of those subjects that comes up every now and then in my family. About how so and so (my dad, grandpa, aunt, whoever) read an article about how vaxes are soo important/good and how we should really at least consider doing SOME of them. And then I start in on the FACTS and I go and get my books with the charts of when the vax was introduced vs what the disease(s) were doing at the time. Of who ever died from these diseases and how it just not relevant to me and my family. And eventually, my family says "ok, ok ok! I haven't done all the reading you have! OK! Enough!" - and thats the end of it. Till THEY bring it up again. My family knows my stance on vaxes, and whether they agree with it or not, the respect it, because they KNOW that I've researched and thought long and hard about this. And they have not.

Honestly, I'm most surprised that no-one in DH's family has ever brought it up... but I honestly think that his family's scared of me Because while I'm pretty sure they all think I'm wierd/crazy for bfing DS for so long (22 months now), the only person whos ever dared say a word is DH's dad... who said something like 'how long you gonna do that for?' when we saw him last summer.. and got the 'as long as he wants' and a dirty look.. and its never been brought up again So, yeah. Having your in-laws afraid of you, is a GOOD thing
post #13 of 13
Well, here is the thing for me... Pro-vax advocates *claim* their vaccines are effective in preventing disease. *If* this is true then it logically follows that people who have been vaccinated are immune to those diseases and CAN NOT get them from non-vaxxed kiddos, right??? So, how am I responsible for the health care another person chooses? All parents have the right to have their kids vaccinated if they want to.

If vaccines are really safe and effective and I am really stupid for not vaxxing my kids, then I may spread disease to other non-vaxxed kids but their parents made the same stupid choice I did, so again how is that my responsibility?

Smart, good parents (as opposed to us dumb, middle-class celebrity-worshipping, parasites) have no need to worry about it because their kids are immune.
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Mothering › Forums › Health › Vaccinations › For the good of one... or of many?