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Dreaming of Leaving the States... Am I Alone Here? - Page 3

post #41 of 94
That's the cause. You have to go there and see things for yourself. The government is not the best either, the Political party is ruining the country as well. Calderon(the mexican president) is just another idiot.

If you're against vaccinations, well forget about it, its mandatory there. The good schools are the private schools and homeschooling is illegal as far as I know. And other things that you can get here easily.
post #42 of 94
I don't have any minor children, all grown up at this point, so schooling and vax exemptions will not personally effect my family. It's clear you have major issues with the country, but everyone is different and we each have the right to come to our own conclusions if someplace is right for us or not.
post #43 of 94
We dream of going back to Kenya at least weekly. We would need good jobs there and we're gone.......
post #44 of 94
I'm from the USA and have lived in Hong Kong for the past 16+ years. I love it here, but sometimes have dreams of moving back to Mass. or to Vermont. Other times I have fantasies of moving to Toronto (lots of DH's family members are there) or BC.

But, as others have pointed out, it's not all perfect living abroad. I have a lot of concerns about HK and China (environmental degradation, lack of democracy, growing economic inequality...)
post #45 of 94
We dream about leaving the country, too. I've spoken to lawyers about moving to Canada, but it's too expensive right now to provide the funds necessary for a permanent status without having a job to go to there -- and no one we spoke with was willing to hire my husband without that status.

But, yes, we do hope to someday leave the US. I also dream about places like Amsterdam and European countries that are much more family friendly. I would love to be able to bike more with my daughter, walk to open air markets, etc.
post #46 of 94
(That's the cause. You have to go there and see things for yourself. The government is not the best either, the Political party is ruining the country as well. Calderon(the mexican president) is just another idiot.

If you're against vaccinations, well forget about it, its mandatory there. The good schools are the private schools and homeschooling is illegal as far as I know. And other things that you can get here easily.)

Wow that's some strong opinion there...we are living in MX right now as i speak. Yes the government is all to hell and back...but...VAX is not mandatory, you do what ever is right for your family here. There is no one walking around pounding you if you dont vax your kids....we homeschool. Half the kids running around outside dont even go to school...so no one really cares what you do with your kids at home or not.
It's a different pace of life that's for sure, it's taken me about a year to get semi used to it here.
We can open up a business in our home if we want with no legal whoha...no permits if we want to add another floor to our house or another bedroom. The government doesnt bother you like the US does. It's really not that bad...as long as you have some of the comforts of home...washing machine, working stove...a car...and yes..HOT water..a must for this mama...oh and one more thing...internet service....hahalol.
post #47 of 94
UmmZaynab- I was deeply touched by your post.
post #48 of 94
Thread Starter 
It seems there are definitely two sides to this fence. I'm glad to hear all the opinions though, no matter how they may differ.

FWIW I'm not planning on packing up and moving to just any old country, expecting some sort of wonderland to greet me from the plane. I am definitely not considering a third-world country! I have a LOT of research to do, not to mention slowly getting my DP to like the idea! He's very attached to our current location. It would be a huge breakthrough just to get him to move to Austin!

I just wanted to open up the discussion about wanting to live abroad, and input from others with experience is very helpful. Keep it coming!!
post #49 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mamato3wild ponnie View Post

Wow that's some strong opinion there...we are living in MX right now as i speak. Yes the government is all to hell and back...but...VAX is not mandatory, you do what ever is right for your family here. There is no one walking around pounding you if you dont vax your kids....we homeschool. Half the kids running around outside dont even go to school...so no one really cares what you do with your kids at home or not.
It's a different pace of life that's for sure, it's taken me about a year to get semi used to it here.
We can open up a business in our home if we want with no legal whoha...no permits if we want to add another floor to our house or another bedroom. The government doesnt bother you like the US does. It's really not that bad...as long as you have some of the comforts of home...washing machine, working stove...a car...and yes..HOT water..a must for this mama...oh and one more thing...internet service....hahalol.
We have family living in Mexico and they told me all of thatI dont have anything against the country, I'm half Mexican. But I didnt liked the experience that I had while being there. It's not nice to take a walk with your child and have men screaming things at you: No thanks.

Mexico is gorgeous of course. Mexico City has a lot of fun things to do with kids and I find it to be very child friendly.

I would LOVE to go to Namibia and South Africa one day. I went to Australia when I was 15 and I liked it. It's very far away though.
I would like to move to my hometown but DH loves it here.
post #50 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sailor View Post
Eh, I really think it depends on what type of person you are. I, too, have traveled extensively and have lived in places beyond America.

Now, our plan is to continue travel via a sailboat, but have our permanent base be one of the islands off the coast of Asia. There are tons of them, and they're all gorgeous. Plus, the government is mainly hands off in most of them (not all, but most). Plus, it's a tax haven - almost.

I really think it depends on why you want to move and how you do it. Both of us have jobs that can be done from anywhere, so we won't be needing to work locally. Our income source will be in American or Euro dollars - depending, which will go a long way in terms of exchange rate. Further, we have no debt as of last year.

I'll take handwashing my laundry (which I did in Bali and enjoyed it actually) over that. I just don't want to see "the decline", so to speak.

I
Did you wash your husband's and a baby's laundry, too? Because I did that and it was fine until I had to do it for three. And then another on the way. Hah!

If you are earning American dollars and using your American passport, then
what you are really talking about is living the expat life, not necessarily leaving America. Because as long as you are using those dollars and working for that job, paying taxes or not, you are still supporting the political system here.

I am not saying you won't enjoy living on a boat. But frankly, the salaried expatriate life is not much of a protest, in my opinion. If you are leaving for political reasons, consider leaving the system entirely and forsaking those American dollars and getting and saving your salary in rubles or yuan or pesos or at LEAST Euros (frankly, not that much more ethical, if you look into it...).

That said, I like the expat life and it's not a protest for me. For me a protest would be no U.S. passport (and no open doors it comes with), no American dollars savings account (dread...), and citizenship elsewhere which is really freaking expensive to get in any country that does not have gross violations of human rights, as in, every prison in the entire country is a little Guantanamo.

Still, I have to agree that there's nothing better than a first-world passport and salary and third-world prices. Woohoo.
post #51 of 94
This discussion has been very interesting to me, I have never been to mexico so I can't really say, but some of the things said here I find unbeliavable, I live in the Third world too, here you an find everythign you find in the US except target, and I love target, we certanly have hot runnning water, internet, and big shopping malls, unless you go and live pretty ruraly then I can't imagine Mexico beeing any different. We have a lot of political issues going on, but at lit doesn't affect me.

I am planing to move to Canada because DH is canadian and has stuff going on there that he needs to take care of, but I'm terrified of moving, for one the weather, we have sunshine year around, I don't like the cold and I get claustrophobic wearing all that gear, second and most important the people and the comunities, wich may not be a positive to you, but we are very warm people pass babies around, hug and kiss each other hi and good bye, and we can start a conversation pretty much every where, I have met some friends just in the line to go pee, we are not PC at all so we don't really worry about what we say or don't say, we are of a very very mixed race so you can find people of every color in every status of society, we are not easily offended, etc etc.

On the other hand you really shouldn't walk around with gold jewelry or huge amounts of money, because you can get mugged, we don't recycle, and it's very hard to buy property here at least in the city.
post #52 of 94
[QUOTE=EdnaMarie;12993013]

That said, I like the expat life and it's not a protest for me. For me a protest would be no U.S. passport (and no open doors it comes with), no American dollars savings account (dread...), and citizenship elsewhere which is really freaking expensive to get in any country that does not have gross violations of human rights, as in, every prison in the entire country is a little Guantanamo.

[QUOTE]

See, I still don't get where everyone is coming from, seeing the act of leaving the country and giving up citizenship or whatever as a "protest". To me, it's not a "protest" it's just a capitulation. You allow yourself to become one of the victims if you go to the Third World, and you are just copping out if you run away to a cushy First World lifestyle. (Some would call that "white privilege" too.)

More than one person here has said "I can't sit by and watch while..." Well, nobody told you to just sit by and watch. Why don't you do something? Will you get thrown in jail or killed for political activism as people do in so many other countries?

JMHO.
post #53 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoliMum View Post
I just really hate living my life like the average American, staying home with the kid doing laundry all day, with a partner who is burnt out at work... But it just seems like such a mediocre life, know what I mean?

The consumerism, the suburban sprawl that is slowly infecting every place like cancer, the oppression of every group that isn't White Male, the absence of quality in our food, land, goods, and general lifestyle... it just feels so impossible to live the way I'd like.
Sounds exactly like my life....

...in Qatar.
post #54 of 94
[QUOTE=UmmZaynab;12997178][QUOTE=EdnaMarie;12993013]

That said, I like the expat life and it's not a protest for me. For me a protest would be no U.S. passport (and no open doors it comes with), no American dollars savings account (dread...), and citizenship elsewhere which is really freaking expensive to get in any country that does not have gross violations of human rights, as in, every prison in the entire country is a little Guantanamo.

Quote:

See, I still don't get where everyone is coming from, seeing the act of leaving the country and giving up citizenship or whatever as a "protest". To me, it's not a "protest" it's just a capitulation. You allow yourself to become one of the victims if you go to the Third World, and you are just copping out if you run away to a cushy First World lifestyle. (Some would call that "white privilege" too.)

More than one person here has said "I can't sit by and watch while..." Well, nobody told you to just sit by and watch. Why don't you do something? Will you get thrown in jail or killed for political activism as people do in so many other countries?

JMHO.
That is a good point. I guess what I meant was, if I was going to protest America by leaving, I'd REALLY leave, not just leave other Americans but keep all the accoutrements! But you are right, it's NOT much of a protest, which is one of the reasons I haven't left, heh.

Quote:
live in the Third world too, here you an find everythign you find in the US except target, and I love target, we certanly have hot runnning water, internet, and big shopping malls,
Um. That's not the third world. That's second world. Sorry. What country do you live in?
post #55 of 94
Living abroad for a few years taught me that there is no 'better'. Every place has its fantastic advantages and depressing disadvantages.
post #56 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonnenwende View Post
Living abroad for a few years taught me that there is no 'better'. Every place has its fantastic advantages and depressing disadvantages.
:

This succinctly describes why neither dh (the immigrant) nor I (the native born American) feels fully "at home" in one place or another. Sometimes we feel fed up with being here in the US and we want to visit dh's country. Then we visit dh's country and we (really fast) realize that we can't live there and we need to be back home here. There is never one place that can offer us everything.

There is no utopia in the world and I'm not waiting for anyone to create it for me. I'm going to make it my work to make the best of what I have. Or as the country music singer Kareem Salama says "...I already live in a land called Paradise..." (http://www.kareemsalama.com)
post #57 of 94
Thread Starter 
I vote, I protest in my daily activities (like nursing in public), and my plan for "changing the world" is to become a teacher and open the minds of our children. I don't feel like moving out of the country will result in abandoning all effort towards changing America.

I don't really want to leave out of protest. I want to leave to have a better quality of life. I am not so naive to think that it can be found in any part of Europe. But I do not think I'll find it here.

I also want to stress that I'm not looking for an easier life.
post #58 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by EdnaMarie View Post


Um. That's not the third world. That's second world. Sorry. What country do you live in?
I live in Venezuela I'm pretty sure we are in the third world.

From what I understand is not a ranking system in development anyways. The second world was/is the USSR.
post #59 of 94
There is a ranking system that has to do with access to basic goods and services, and Venezuela is in the second, not third, tier, though you have a good point that "second world" doesn't really apply. Both EVC and I, with our rationed water, electricity, no shopping malls, etc. were in the former U.S.S.R. (she in Europe, I in Asia).

Note that Venezuela is in the "high" human development index: http://hdr.undp.org/en/statistics/ while, say, Kyrgyzstan is middle. And that is with Kyrgyzstan's near universal literacy among people over 30!

Of course the list is really biased because it's based on self-reporting, and most nations exaggerate, but that just means that Venezuela is probably really in the second tier with Turkey. Though, I haven't been there and if you have shopping malls and electricity, you can count yourself in a pretty developed country. Most of the world is living with rationed electricity, water, and heat even in urban areas, and I don't mean just Africa.

I for one do think some places are better. You couldn't pay me enough to live in Turkmenistan, Myanmar, or North Korea, for example, regardless of how inspiring the people who live there must be. Just- no freaking way. There's a reason their leaders have to cage them in!
post #60 of 94
Ok I must have been confused I didn't realize that this thread was about leaving in protest, I'm not interested in leaving in protest. I am interested in leaving though.
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