Beyond Logic...

[Juvysen]

If you were one of those who started out vaxing and learned differently, could you help me with this one?

DD is vaccinated up to her 12 month appointment - at the 12 mo she didn't get the MMR or CP. I had sort of learned a little about vaccinating before she was born and didn't feel good about it, but was sort of talked into it by various people, so she was vaxed. I cried every time she had an appointment. We stopped at the 12 month expecting to do selective/delayed vaccinations but we have not done any for her since.

DS was born SINCE we stopped vaxing DD, but we have done two doses of HIB for him - we were talked into it by the doctor and I feel really really uncomfortable with giving him any more, but the VPDs scare me a lot, too.

Here's my problem - I think logically I'm done. When I think logically about it, I don't think it's an issue (although, I'm wondering about travel, but whatever). I'm convinced by all the reading/research and learning how to treat VPDs, etc. But... I can't get myself over the fear/anxiety that comes along with all the vaccination indoctrination I've gotten over the years. For some reason, just the logic isn't doing it for me. TBH, I'm not even sure which vaccinations I'd feel good about giving in a selective/delayed way.

How did you get past the vaccination indoctrination?

[FernG]

Constantly reading the research keeps me convinced that not vaccinating is the best thing for my child and also for our community (i.e., I don't believe in herd immunity).

[kiara7]

:

I also open up dr. Mendelsohn's book "How to raise a healthy child in spite of your doctor." Great read, great doc.

[Juvysen]

Originally Posted by kiara7

:

I also open up dr. Mendelsohn's book "How to raise a healthy child in spite of your doctor." Great read, great doc.

i really should re-read that one. I have it here, somewhere, and it's been a while.

[peainthepod]

Reading everything I could get my hands on, especially the vaccine inserts (ingredients lists and known reactions), the VAERS database, and the CDC Pink Book did it for me. Anti-vax literature simply confirmed what I already suspected from the available stats.

A Shot in the Dark, Evidence of Harm, What Your Doctor May Not Tell You About Children's Vaccinations, Raising Healthy Children and Babies, and How to Raise a Healthy Child In Spite of Your Doctor were all extremely helpful for me to read. In addition, the documentary film Vaccine Nation really drove home the point that vaccines are not nearly as harmless as their manufacturers and salesmen (doctors) would have you believe.

Also, the vaccine archives here on MDC and Inside Vaccines were amazingly useful as well.

[tanyalynn]

I found a lot of posts here, especially old ones by a former member, Momtezuma Tuatara, really helpful in discussing supporting the body with nutrition to get through illnesses without complications. And I guess it's because I got a lot of practice doing just that, since my son got sick a lot in his first two years (this fall/winter has been much better, yay! but so with so much experience dealing with illness, it didn't feel scary after a while--I think it's actually harder when your kid is almost always healthy, and then they get sick. So I guess for me it boiled down to knowledge of what to do when the kids are sick (there are lots of things to try, for me the nutritional support route was the easiest to get the hang of and worked well for us) and then practice with actual illnesses.

These have allowed me get to a place where instead of fearing the ingredients in the vaccines, I feel comfortable using other methods to deal with illness, and now I just don't need the vaccines.

[chaoticzenmom]

I vaxed my first child up to his 2yr appt. So, he's had most of them. He was so sick for so long. He only had 19shots...now they want to give 36 shots!

My 2nd, I could tell that my new ped wasn't that into vax's. That's when I started to research them myself. She never said anything, but anytime I'd ask a quesetion about any vaxes, she'd say, "we can wait, it's no big deal."

I started reading about vaccine injuries here and read the vears sites about babies who died within a week of having a shot. Lots of them! Then, I started looking at the cdc website and saw that their sponsers are drug manufacturers. That's a blatant conflict of interest! It should not be allowed. Also, I started looking into who educates future doctors...it's the drug manufacturers!

So, drug manufacturers control the cdc who is responsible for recommending drugs to us, like vaccines. They also educate and indoctrinate dr's. Dr's can't really tell us what they really think because we're a liability risk. It's in dr's best interest to believe what they're telling us because if not, then they have the issue of cognitive dissonance to deal with.

Once I stepped outside of it and just looked at it, I realized that I was lucky to be stepping out of it. My kids are lucky.

Also, talking with my naturapath, who I trust, helped. She said that babies don't even have an immune response to vaccines before 6 months at least, so all those earlier vaccines are just useless poison. A very high percent of children will be effectively immune to the disease after just one dose (given after 6 mo.) The boosters are to catch the rest of the children who aren't immune to the first one. So, knowing that I have healthy kids, I chose to vaccinate for polio at 6 months. Then, I did one dtap at 9 mo. That one caused 2 days of screaming, so it won't happen again with the new baby coming next month. My youngest son has had only 2 shots to my other kids' 15 to 19 shots. This newest one might get a polio vax...haven't decided yet.

check out the vears website. Just spend some time reading it. That will show you more than anything else you can read I think.

[library lady]

The easiest way to get past it is to continually research. I always leave myself open to the possibility of changing my mind. My oldest received all of her vax's until she was 2 at which time I was given information to make me reconsider. It is much easier to go get a vax than it is to undo a vax. I hope that makes sense.

[Juvysen]

I think i'm going through a real shock of "um, why isn't the world even remotely logical"... if that makes sense? It's just a bit shocking and saddening to me that 1. you can't trust the government organizations that are supposed to be there to help you (but are treated like some sort of freak/conspiracy theorist if you dont) because of the inherent conflicts of interest someone mentioned above and all the money changing hands 2. everyone else goes along with it like it's no big deal until something bad happens to them and wakes them up from their stupor.

I guess it just feels like the Matrix or something... I'm having a hard time with the wake-up because it's so completely unbelievably crazy. It makes me wonder if i'm crazy, yk? Bleh.

What's that saying? "once you've had a taste of the truth, the lies taste funny"?

I guess I'm just standing here dumbfounded thinking "how is this world possibly so screwed up? This can't be right."

[tanyalynn]

Originally Posted by Juvysen

I guess I'm just standing here dumbfounded thinking "how is this world possibly so screwed up? This can't be right."

Getting past this just takes time, I think. It's really shocking that the idea of not following the CDC schedule exactly is considered radical and fringe, when there's very little data and common sense that says that this is best for kids, and a disturbing amount is just not known yet.

[Juvysen]

Yeah... but I feel like I've been feeling like this for over a year and a half. I'm frozen in the land of not vaxing by default, not because I've made a conscious decision against it...

[becca_howell]

Your DD's schedule is almost like what my DD had, except I was going to a delayed schedule. At 15 months, we were only going to give her the DTaP, but her ped talked me into getting her Prevnar too ("She's almost done and she hasn't had a reaction to any shots"). The idiot nurse gave the shots in the same leg and she had a reaction. Her leg had a knot the size of a tennis ball for a MONTH, and she had an eczema breakout in the injection site. When I got home, I talked to some friends and did some more reading, and when I took my concerns to DH, he said, "I'm perfectly fine not giving them any vaccines." WHY DID HE NOT TELL ME SOONER?!?!

I would say that you need to read everything you can get your hands on. After that, you have two choices. First, you can make a document on your computer with all your concerns and reasons why you don't want to vaccinate. Print it and bring it to the doctor. S/He may argue the reasons, but you have to stay firm in your decisions. Your second choice is to take the whole, "They are my children, I have researched the issue and do not feel comfortable vaccinating at this time" stance. I'm a little in the middle. When people push me, I just give my little spill and leave it at that.

Stand up for yourself and your dear children!! We are not the stereotype they like to paint of unvaccinated parents. We are not neglectful, abusive parents who ignore their childrens' healthcare. We are intelligent, thorough parents who take an intense care of their childrens' healthcare and do not want horrible toxins and unneccessary illnesses put in our children's bodies, nor their dabilitating and sometimes deadly side effects!

[rmzbm]

Originally Posted by Juvysen

Yeah... but I feel like I've been feeling like this for over a year and a half. I'm frozen in the land of not vaxing by default, not because I've made a conscious decision against it...

Sounds like you might need to do a bit more research. I think you CAN get to a place where you are comfortable and confidant. Don't stop until you do.

[Juvysen]

Actually, for the most part the doc is ok about us not vaxing (they keep talking about how we can do it later).

We've come to sort of a weird time now, though, because we either have to choose to do some more or we have to claim a religious exemption, but I feel awkward that DS isn't vaxed more (vaccination indoctrination) but I'm not sure what I'd want him to have. DH thinks we should just not do more or at least do the exemption but then do what we want. I feel like he only gets his information from me and I wonder if I'm twisting things so he thinks that or what. I wish he'd look into it, too. UGH! I never used to be this indecisive about things, I think, but I really do think it comes down to indoctrination on this one... I hope?

I hate that I agonize about this while most people just shrug and get their kids the shots. :

[peainthepod]

Originally Posted by Juvysen

Actually, for the most part the doc is ok about us not vaxing (they keep talking about how we can do it later).

We've come to sort of a weird time now, though, because we either have to choose to do some more or we have to claim a religious exemption, but I feel awkward that DS isn't vaxed more (vaccination indoctrination) but I'm not sure what I'd want him to have. DH thinks we should just not do more or at least do the exemption but then do what we want. I feel like he only gets his information from me and I wonder if I'm twisting things so he thinks that or what. I wish he'd look into it, too. UGH! I never used to be this indecisive about things, I think, but I really do think it comes down to indoctrination on this one... I hope?

I hate that I agonize about this while most people just shrug and get their kids the shots. :

It sounds like you need to do more research. I know it can be overwhelming and time consuming but I think it would really help you feel more confident in your decisions. Sit down and go over each vaccine and the disease it's supposed to prevent. What scares you most about that disease? Or what makes you not want to give that particular vax? How common is the disease, and how is it treated? Is the risk of a vaccine reaction higher than the risk of your child being permanently injured or dying from the disease?

Once you have basic answers to those questions, you can figure out if you want to keep vaccinating. I think you're very lucky to have a vaccine-relaxed doctor and a husband who wants you to wait. Lots of mamas endure tons of pressure from their DH and doctor while trying to make these decisions.

As I'm sure you know, once a vaccine has been given, it can never be taken back. There's no reason to hurry, so take some deep breaths and dive into the research before you decide.

[mamadelbosque]

Sherri tenpenny's book about vaccines (Vaccines: The Risks the Benefits, the Choices) really helped me lay it all out and see what my choices were... and its fantastic for arguing your case with most anyone - its hard to refute slides and data from the CDC itself on vaccines

[tanyalynn]

Originally Posted by Juvysen

We've come to sort of a weird time now, though, because we either have to choose to do some more or we have to claim a religious exemption, but I feel awkward that DS isn't vaxed more (vaccination indoctrination) but I'm not sure what I'd want him to have.

I take it you have school or something like that coming up, where you'll need an exemption? It seems sort of like those last-minute doubts homeschoolers can get when they realize hey, everyone else is enrolling their kids for kindergarten, now I _really_ have to make that choice. More because of the timing and circumstances pressing on your rather than anything else? For homeschooling we have fun stuff like Not-Back-to-School parties to help cope with the being different part of this, there's nothing really comparable for vaccination. Because there is both having concrete knowledge and then also feeling, on some level, like you're not making this bizarre, unfathomable decision.... oops, need to run

[tmaue]

What you did with your first child sounds like what I did with my first, and I also stopped short of the MMR and chickenpox. I actually didn't start learning anything about vaxes until he was 1 yo. With my second child, I had done quite a bit of research by the time she came and we have not vaxed her at all and do not plan to.

What did it for me was when I started learning about the immune system and how it works, and then how they think vaxes work compared to how they probably actually work. At that point, I knew I couldn't vax anymore no matter what anyone thought. It is just one of those things now that I would fight to protect my child from. I actually don't tell too many people because I hate to have to defend myself against people who have done no research.

[Juvysen]

Originally Posted by TanyaLopez

I take it you have school or something like that coming up, where you'll need an exemption? It seems sort of like those last-minute doubts homeschoolers can get when they realize hey, everyone else is enrolling their kids for kindergarten, now I _really_ have to make that choice. More because of the timing and circumstances pressing on your rather than anything else? For homeschooling we have fun stuff like Not-Back-to-School parties to help cope with the being different part of this, there's nothing really comparable for vaccination. Because there is both having concrete knowledge and then also feeling, on some level, like you're not making this bizarre, unfathomable decision.... oops, need to run

Yeah, that sounds about right.