Criticisms of parenting based on area?

[caitryn]

Maybe it's just the people I've been around, but I came to a very real realization during the last week of of December/first week of January.

I have been on the phone constantly with my mother in south Mississippi since I found out I was going to have a baby. Now that DS is 5 months old, I am still doing this. Other than my husband, she is my main support. (I also have a friend who is an ex-Mennonite, so that helps in some ways, too. Her mother even made me a sling.)

Here, in a very rural community in north central Missouri, I would have thought that more people would be supportive, too. I had a hospital birth, but they were very pro-breastfeeding, understood my desire to delay vaccinations, encouraged rooming-in, and allowed co-sleeping while IN the hospital. They were also very understanding of my birthplan and were willing to work with it unless something came up. I think giving birth 6 weeks early counted as "something coming up."

With all of that going on in a hospital, I would have thought the area itself would be alright. Instead, a big deal was made out of me breastfeeding by family and some friends (the ones who didn't have kids or whose kids were already grown), and even WIC has given me a hard time about it recently. As if I don't feel bad enough about having had to supplement with formula since I have spent literally my whole life planning to exclusively bf, some people really like to rub it in.

I was looked at like an idiot when I said I wanted to cloth diaper. (As soon as a friend gets back from the Amish store 2.5 hours away, I'll be getting heavy into that.) Comments have been made about co-sleeping. I am constantly harassed in one way or another about vaccinations. All in all, I feel like I'm in the spotlight anytime I'm in public. Some of this stuff has calmed down a great deal, but all it takes is one mention of it to bring all of the comments back to the forefront of my mind.

I went home to Mississippi for the New Year. My parents and little sis hadn't gotten to see DS until then. I also got to spend time with some friends I hadn't seen in nearly 10 years. I'm the only one of my friends to have had kids so far. Not a single person said anything to me. In fact, they were all supportive. I was even able to bf DS at a New Year's party at a friend's house, and no one even looked at me. The only "comments" I got were a friend or two giggling at how excited DS got and the slurping noises he was making. There was not judgment whatsoever. A couple of people were with me when I changed his diaper, and there were no comments about the lack of circumcision either! They didn't care. He's my son, and I have to raise him how I see fit, according to them.

My mom was even discussing breastfeeding with me and giving me tips on cloth diapering and natural remedies for childhood ailments and other such things. (She grew up on a farm in north east Arkansas, and her raising had been heavily influenced by her great-great grandmother who was a Choctaw medicine woman. That might have alot to do with it.)

I came back here to my house after a week down there and immediately felt the difference once again.

Anyone else noticed a difference (maybe it's cultural?) when traveling to different areas of the country?

[mama_mojo]

I have more suburban experience than rural or urban, but place definitely matters. DFW (Texas) can be a painful place to bf or cd if you bother noticing others' reactions. Burlington, VT can be a lovely place in that no one seems to notice at all. Seattle, WA also seemed pretty good, but we weren't there long. Austin, TX- great. Waco, TX- pretty awful.

But, the less you notice other people, the less you notice, yk? So, if someone looks askance as you latch on the baby, but you're just yacking away with a girlfriend or making googoo eyes at your baby, their look was wasted. And, if you react not at all even if you do notice, well, their look was still wasted.

As for people telling you everything you're doing wrong- it's just something people do. I think most of the time they don't mean anything bad, they are actually just expressing interest in a rude way. How nice to have so many people interested in your baby.

[Sheryl1678]

Originally Posted by mama_mojo

So, if someone looks askance as you latch on the baby, but you're just yacking away with a girlfriend or making googoo eyes at your baby, their look was wasted.

Ignoring the detractors can be difficult. I live in the midwest and I UC, EC, CD, EBF, cosleep, tandem nurse... the whole shebang. People here either treat me like an insane person or an alien. I cared and stressed about it with dd1, not at all with dd2. Now I think their reactions are comical.

[rainyday]

Oh, yeah, it's totally based on area. I read some of the stories people post online here about people being unsupportive of nursing, and it's just so completely foreign to me.

I lived in Portland and Seattle sinced ds was born, and I don't know anyone who didn't nurse their babies. I know a couple of moms who gave it up before a year, but most nursed at least that long, and many of them for much longer. Right now I know several women who are still nursing two or three year olds. Actually all but one of the women I know with a child under three is still nursing. Even the most mainstream mothers I know didn't think anything of cloth diapering, and a lot of them tried it for a while themselves. I never felt uncomfortable nursing in public anywhere, and I only once noticed a look from someone, but since he was about 14, I didn't worry much about it!

I'm sorry you're not getting much support right now, OP.

[caitryn]

My mom says to ignore everyone, too, and just do my own thing. I agree, but as one pp has said, it can be really hard. My husband's parents are divorced, and it's like being in two different worlds when visiting the MIL vs. the FIL. FIL's wife and her whole family (and his family, too) all bf and did a few other things, though I have inquired too closely as to what. The MIL was "too on the go" to be able to bf (her words). Unfortunately, we live in the town where the MIL and her family and friends live.

Considering there are quite a few Mennonites as well as people listening to the "new" idea of "breast is best" from all the area hospitals, it's amazing to me the bf'ing crowd seems to be more of a silent majority. I think my bf'ing, considering the number of people who do it around here, may only be a big deal because the MIL has made it out to be such and has preached it to the world like I'm some sort of martyr or saint or something.

It was a big joke at my baby shower that she threw for me. She did a word scramble and a trivia test for the two games. One of the trivia questions was "What formula is the baby taking?" Since I was supplementing, I put down the formula. The "correct" answer was "Nature's formula!" Big joke. Ha ha. Everyone but me laughed. (Strangely, it wasn't the only question I got wrong on that test about my son...)

Oh, and as an added bit of info, DS was 1.5 months old at the baby shower since he came early.

MIL was telling everyone about the BFing and how she couldn't do it, and it just disgusted her to see anyone doing it in public. Blah blah. Y'all probably know the drill. Once I started getting some success with it with her grandson, her tune suddenly changed to, "Well, I just knew it wasn't right for me..."

Sorry, this has turned into a rant about my MIL. Plenty of people on here seem to have those, too, at least.

[jillmamma]

Personally, I have found that my own attitude makes a big difference to how others react. If I radiate confidence in my own choices, then others can hardly say detrimental things without looking kind of stupid. Like to your MIL saying she could not have done that and it was not for her, you can respond about how much money you are saving from not buying as much formula, how much time from not washing as many bottles (I know you supplement some, but it could be more), how convenient it is because as soon as the baby wants to eat the food is ready (no heating up or mixing formula), and how you love less visits to the doctor because your baby is getting such a great boost to his immune system. And when they get to toddler age, I go on about how nice it is to not have to be so worried if they don't eat as many solid foods too well that day as I know they are getting great nutrition from my milk and how nice it is to have them not sick as much and if they are, it is SO nice to be able to directly help them feel better and fight it off. If you are talking about it as if you KNOW you are doing the right thing and it is obvious that you have your mind made up how you are going to do things, they shut up as they figure anything that they say is not worth it.

I do the same thing when it comes up that my DD who is almost 3.5 is still RF in her car seat. I talk about how much safer she is since the seat absorbs much of the crash forces so she won't break her neck or snap her spinal cord, and there are NO studies that talk of legs being injured and they pretty much shut up. MY in-laws sometimes give me a hard time about this one.

So just do your research, have your facts ready, and people can't help but know that you must know your stuff so they (hopefully) will shut up and leave you alone about it. And, you never know, maybe someone who doesn't know better will learn something from you and benefit from it.

[La Rune]

Oh yeah, you don't even have to travel very far to see it ....

I live in a very rural area outside New Orleans. People grow oranges and tomatoes. They raise livestock. They're fishermen. All the moms SAH. You'd think natural would be okay. Heck no! People are disgusted by BFing and they're hounding me to get WIC "cuz they'll give you cereal and formula!". Co-sleeping, babywearing, BLW, delaying solids ... they've never heard of these things. They think I'm a nut and they gossip about me constantly.

If I go shopping IN New Orleans for a day, it's a different world. I can sit on a bench in the mall to nurse and people SMILE at me when they walk by. Women ask me where I got my wrap. Of course, I also see moms with bottles and strollers, but nobody thinks I'm a freak.

[caitryn]

Originally Posted by La Rune

I live in a very rural area outside New Orleans. People grow oranges and tomatoes. They raise livestock. They're fishermen. All the moms SAH. You'd think natural would be okay. Heck no!

[...]

If I go shopping IN New Orleans for a day, it's a different world. I can sit on a bench in the mall to nurse and people SMILE at me when they walk by. Women ask me where I got my wrap. Of course, I also see moms with bottles and strollers, but nobody thinks I'm a freak.

You would think it would be the opposite. Rural areas (at least years ago) didn't used to have access to all the same things as in the cities, so you'd think that the rural areas would be more into natural things and the cities more about bottles and all this other stuff. That's how my mom always referred to things, too. Things were one way on the farm where they had to provide for themselves, (It's still odd to me that they didn't get indoor plumbing until my mom was a child.) and things were completely different in the city/bigger towns. Mom also said that they didn't have as much access to all the books and things that have caused the "mainstream" parenting ideas to develop. All but like one of my great-grandmother's kids were born at home, and HER mother was the midwife. It was a completely different world when Mom had me on a Air Force base.

And yet, I'm noticing that the more rural the area, the more likely they are to have adopted mainstream views and the less likely they are to switch back to what I consider to be the more natural side of things. It's the cities where all the ideas seem to be accepted. (It was a small city in MS that I went to.) Again, just what I've personally observed. Maybe it's different in, say, New England or California? I've never been there.

[gsd1amommy]

I saw another post of yours and saw where you live. I am not far from you-about an hour or less. This is just a weird area for any view that is not disposable diapers, formula, spanking, etc.
When I first took my son into wal-mart in the BabyHawk, you would have thought I had him wrapped in tinfoil, strapped to my chest with bungee cords. People actually stopped their shopping to stare and shake their heads.The door greeter wanted me to remove him and put him in a cart where kids belong and fold the BabyHawk up and put it away.
I do not ever feel the need to defend my parenting. I am certainly willing to discuss the why and how, if asked, but I am content to be my town's weirdo, hippy mom. My kids are cool. I'm cool. Be brave and confident. It works.

[La Rune]

Originally Posted by caitryn

You would think it would be the opposite. Rural areas (at least years ago) didn't used to have access to all the same things as in the cities, so you'd think that the rural areas would be more into natural things and the cities more about bottles and all this other stuff. That's how my mom always referred to things, too. Things were one way on the farm where they had to provide for themselves, (It's still odd to me that they didn't get indoor plumbing until my mom was a child.) and things were completely different in the city/bigger towns. Mom also said that they didn't have as much access to all the books and things that have caused the "mainstream" parenting ideas to develop. All but like one of my great-grandmother's kids were born at home, and HER mother was the midwife. It was a completely different world when Mom had me on a Air Force base.

And yet, I'm noticing that the more rural the area, the more likely they are to have adopted mainstream views and the less likely they are to switch back to what I consider to be the more natural side of things. It's the cities where all the ideas seem to be accepted. (It was a small city in MS that I went to.) Again, just what I've personally observed. Maybe it's different in, say, New England or California? I've never been there.

Well ... we all know the stereotype of rural people being "behind the times". Maybe this is one instance when it's partly true. Parents here raise their kids in some pretty old-fashioned ways (popular old-fashioned, not real natural old-fashioned). Never hold them, CIO, give them formula and bottles of water from the get-go, spanking toddlers, rule the household with an iron fist type of thing. Maybe it will just take time for natural parenting, since it's getting more popular, to "trickle down" into rural areas. Maybe my DD will get fewer stares when she's wearing her babies. I can hope!

That's just a guess at generalization of course.

[Birdie B.]

I've actually been pleasantly surprised at the parenting styles in my area. Many of my mama friends had natural births, all of them breastfeed for at least a year, use cloth diapers, co-sleep, etc. Our city even has several breastfeeding support groups, an excellent birth center and midwives, and one whole store run by lactation consultants with all sorts of breastfeeding paraphernalia, wraps and slings, organic clothing, cloth diapers and other goodies. At my baby shower, every mother there had had natural childbirth and nursed their children for at least 2 years, so I got lots of good advice
Now, North Florida is NOT known for being a very open-minded place, but I feel totally comfortable breastfeeding everywhere, and have lots of support. Maybe it's because I made friends with all the hippies in town...

[Momily]

I think it must be regional beause I come here and see people describing certain kinds of parenting as "mainstream", when they certainly aren't the mainstream here.

When DS (adopted) was little he was almost always the only child at the park using a bottle, unless it was EBM being fed by a nanny. I've been harrassed for formula feeding (actually when my son was on a feeding tube -- a woman walked up to me and told me that if I'd just fed him "normally" with my breasts he wouldn't be sick), but I've never seen someone harrassed for NIP, even thout I see NIP all the time. A few weeks ago I went to a party and discovered that my son was the only 4th grader not spending a significant part or all of the night in their parents' bed ('cause he stopped co-sleeping about the time he turned 9 1/2). I see Ergos and MaiTais and slings all the time when I'm out in public. I see a lot of strollers too, but both are probably equally "normal". Of the people I socialize with I know maybe 1 person who would admit to spanking their child. I certainly don't see spanking on a regular basis in public.

Now, when I say all this I'm talking about my neighborhood, and the circles I socialize in. When I go to my job in the inner city or walk around that neighborhood, I do see more bottles, but I also see a lot of carriers there too. I also sadly hear more threats of violence, although I also know a lot of families who are committed to raising their kids without it.

So, yeah, I guess it's regional.

[Belia]

Originally Posted by Momily

I've been harrassed for formula feeding (actually when my son was on a feeding tube -- a woman walked up to me and told me that if I'd just fed him "normally" with my breasts he wouldn't be sick),

How inexcusably rude. I'm sorry that you had to deal with that.

[Momily]

Originally Posted by Belia

How inexcusably rude. I'm sorry that you had to deal with that.

Thanks! It was, quite frankly, so ridiculous all I could do was keep myself from laughing. I mean who looks at a white woman with a black child and a feeding tube and is able to instantly diagnose the situation?

I should add that I don't think this is an example of how "crunchy" my neighborhood is. I think the woman must have been a little crazy, and frankly crazy people aren't confined to one geographic area.

[NicaG]

I am always astonished at what goes on in other parts of the country. I live in a suburb of NYC, and really no one cares what you do with your kids...in a good way. Babywearing--of course! Nursing in public--why wouldn't you? Organic foods--yum! Wooden toys--how hip and stylin'! Vaxing--let's talk about something else! Most of the "unconventional" practices people talk about on these boards are just mainstream here, even though no one really identifies themselves as "crunchy". I guess most of the people who live here have lived in NYC at some point in their lives, where all kinds of cultures and ideas converge and no one ever bats an eye if they see something odd on the street or subway.

Do you think some of this is red state/blue state?

[caitryn]

Originally Posted by NicaG

Do you think some of this is red state/blue state?

No, actually. Missouri flops back and forth from what I can tell (as it has since it became a state if the history books are telling the truth). Mississippi is most definitely a red state. New York is most definitely blue.

This is one of the few times where I don't think it has nearly as much to do with political stance as other things.

My mom, for instance, liked disposable diapers because they were easy, but when my sister was born, there was no money. She was even resorting to using old dish towels for diapers. Luckily, she had been trained to use cloth diapers from the time she was playing with baby dolls. (She also "bf" her baby dolls, too.)

[MangoMommy]

I've lived in 4 states and 1 country in the last 13 years and it is regional, and even town to town within a region. College towns are usually more "natural" thinking I think.

The worst experience I ever had was visiting my IL's in a small town outside Lexington KY. I got several "that's gross" comments TO MY FACE from "family" up there when I either said I nursed DD or did nurse. Many would leave the room, I kid you not. A friend of the family's grandma said putting the baby on the "ti*" was "nasty"...so that became a joke of DH and I, LOL. He'd ask if it was time to put the baby on the ti* LOL. We enjoyed making his family uncomfortable honestly after the trash that came out of their mouth LOL.

I'm in Hawaii now and it's refreshingly a very "natural" minded place. I see LOTS of babywearing, nursing,etc here. The babywearing especially, I see babies and toddlers in slings all the time. It's so cool.

[Norasmomma]

Where I live it's almost opposite-if you're not feeding your baby everything organic, Waldorfing or homeschooling, exclusively bfding for 6 months, cd-ing, etc...you're looked at like not crunchy enough.

There's judgement on both sides.

I personally think it's none of anybody's business what I am doing.

[NYCVeg]

I've lived in exclusively in large, fairly wealthy, Northeastern cities. While I wouldn't call these areas "crunchy" per se, breastfeeding is definitely assumed, and I hear other moms talk about nursing for two years or more every now and then. Although most moms have hospital births, no one bats an eye at my out-of-hospital birth and I've met plenty of other moms who have birth centers or at home. Organic food is pretty "mainstream" around here, and we see families we know at the farmer's market every week. Babywearing is ubiquitous--and not just the Bjorn; I see slings and wraps of all kinds, every day. Vaccination is last frontier here, I think--I don't know anyone else IRL who doesn't vaccinate, but I do know some people who do selective and delayed. Because most people in these cities live in apartments, sharing rooms or even beds is not uncommon.

My experiences in the suburbs of these cities (friends and family) is completely the opposite: hospital birth is a given and I get lots of raised eyebrows, concern about the "dangers" to my child, and snickers for not doing it. Vaccinations are given right on schedule. Formula feeding is much more common and those who do bf (still a good percentage) tend to do so for less time and not exclusively. Baby food comes in jars, not from the farmer's market. Babies go in strollers and sleep in their own rooms.

I have come across CIO among even "crunchy" families in the city (sigh), but I know no one who spanks, period, in either location.

These are generalizations, of course. But I've been amazed at how much the general culture--the underlying assumptions--can be so different given the proximity of city to suburbs.

[Masel]

[QUOTE=caitryn;12992651]No, actually. Missouri flops back and forth from what I can tell (as it has since it became a state if the history books are telling the truth). QUOTE]

Missouri is like a microchasm of the US. We're blue on the "coasts" and red in the middle (except Columbia). It actually balances out in the end though making it look like we're flip flopping.