Should a child...? - Page 5

[Romana]

Originally Posted by mammal_mama

Do you think your overwhelmed feeling will be solved by them saying "please" when they make their demands, and "thank you" when you fulfill them?

This is slightly OT, but I just want to say that for me it makes a tremendous difference. I have no trouble doing a zillion things if asked nicely, but if someone is barking orders at me, I get really annoyed. My daughter is nearly 3 years old, and I recently have been working a lot on please and thank you and "asking nicely." I told her that people would much rather do things for her if she asks nicely. Sometimes she still barks an order "OPEN DOOR MAMA!", but when I remind her to ask nicely, she calms down and asks "Peas mama open door peas?" and then I open the door.

In our house, this comes from my husband being a stay at home dad and not "hearing" the first few requests. So dd rapidly developed a habit of screaming/demanding what she wanted. "MILK DADDY!" etc. Because he tended not to hear her (how he can tune her out I will never know) until she reached that level. I remind him about it but he still does it a lot (arrgh). However, she's doing a lot more asking and saying please/thank you than she was before I started working on it.

I think a child (or anyone) asking nicely for something, even if it's lots of requests, is far less stressful than one who is ordering you about or being rude/demanding in the manner of the request. Please and thank you are not absolutely necessary (you could say, "I'd really like some grapes. Could I have some grapes, mom?" and that would still be asking nicely), but for a young child they're part of the equation and it doesn't hurt to learn.

[transformed]

Originally Posted by lab

So then all the adults in his life should step up to the plate. Sounds like he is parroting back what he sees......
As far as making excuses for him - I think there is probably a middle road. He might really need you in his corner. But the behavior could be getting out of control. Is he the oldest?




Yeah - that's pretty immature. Again, sounds like he is just parroting back to her what he hears.

he totally is parroting. and yes we should. he is the oldest.

[lab]

Originally Posted by transformed

he totally is parroting. and yes we should. he is the oldest.

Then you and he both have my sympathy. My oldest is a boy. The oldest has it hard. Especially if they are a boy. My son is now (almost) 15. And he is one who thinks outside the box. He is just not the sort of kid who automatically gives respect. For a long time, I was embarrassed by that. I am a southern girl and was raised with the whole 'Yes Ma'am' idea. You know - don't speak unless you are spoken to....

My son comes across as rude and arrogant when in reality he is the sweetest, most loving kid. He snuggles with me every night.

My point is, when you combine his intelligence, make up and the crap that was happening around the house when he was in kindergarten.... Quite honestly, we were setting him up for failure.



He doesn't sound like the sort of kid who listens when you say no hitting. No yelling. Say please. He needs to see everyone else doing that. Not all kids are like that.

[Kirsten]

Originally Posted by transformed

additional info - My ds does have a habit of hitting.

And since I lean "Unconditional Parenting" its really really really REALLY hard.

I have realized there needs to be some balence though. UP is a really great resource but completley stand alone, it doesnt really work when your kid is attacking other people with hugs or hitting.

My brother was a hitter too. By the time he was six, both our parents were dead. So he had an awful lot of anger and confusion about his world. Therapy helped a LOT. Happy to tell you that he is the most lovely adult ever - funny and responsible, with friends and family who adore him, his own house, his own business, took flowers to our gramma every time we visited, etc.

I don't know much about UP - what would it say you'd do if your child was hitting someone? Sounds like whatever that is isn't working for you. I don't think it is wrong to gently remove the child from the situation until he calms down.

Originally Posted by transformed

We have had a REALLY stressful last year.

I have actually HEARD her say to my dad - "Can you ask grandson to flush the toilet?" Because he did something she didnt like and she needed to make a request of him.)

I'm sorry your family had a stressful year. I do think it explains some choices your son makes. Of course it affects him. I hope things are improving for all of you.

I'm not clear on the flush example. I would just flush it myself if I found the toilet unflushed - but if it were a habit, I'd ask the person to flush it. This actually happened at the school where I work. First few times I went in to the toilet unflushed, I just flushed it. Third time I waited til the next class meeting and asked the kids to be sure they flushed. 'Cause that is just icky...

[choli]

Originally Posted by transformed

(I have actually HEARD her say to my dad - "Can you ask grandson to flush the toilet?" Because he did something she didnt like and she needed to make a request of him.)

I mean, who does that? :

Someone who knows that if she makes the request herself to the grandson that it will not be complied with?

[slylives]

Originally Posted by lab

I just wanted to say that I feel really bad for your Mom. How should shse deal with this child. Who hits her on a regular basis and tells her he hates her.

I felt like she was getting a raw deal when I initially read your post, but your last couple of posts have sealed it.

Your ds is nasty to her. I bet she wasn't calling him a name as much as stating a fact that he was nasty to her.

Honestly, it sounds like you were spinning this to make your mom look bad and protect your son. I'm sure you weren't doing it on purpose. But based on the way the information is coming out (halted and slow), it does seem like you aren't/weren't giving the whole picture.

This is just what I was trying to say. But you said it more helpfully.

[transformed]

Originally Posted by Kirsten

My brother was a hitter too. By the time he was six, both our parents were dead. So he had an awful lot of anger and confusion about his world. Therapy helped a LOT. Happy to tell you that he is the most lovely adult ever - funny and responsible, with friends and family who adore him, his own house, his own business, took flowers to our gramma every time we visited, etc.

I don't know much about UP - what would it say you'd do if your child was hitting someone? Sounds like whatever that is isn't working for you. I don't think it is wrong to gently remove the child from the situation until he calms down.


I'm sorry your family had a stressful year. I do think it explains some choices your son makes. Of course it affects him. I hope things are improving for all of you.

I'm not clear on the flush example. I would just flush it myself if I found the toilet unflushed - but if it were a habit, I'd ask the person to flush it. This actually happened at the school where I work. First few times I went in to the toilet unflushed, I just flushed it. Third time I waited til the next class meeting and asked the kids to be sure they flushed. 'Cause that is just icky...

Its just another thing we are working on. He is a little boy who is always eager to get back to the action and often forgets to flush. I dont have as much of a problem with it as others- we all have different tolerance of things.

It seems to resolve itself more quickly when we talk about it.

I am picking up the pieces of being depressed for his whole life. (Bipolar actually.) I feel that my kids have not had an ideal situation - and I havent been the mama I wanted to be. But there is so much to look forward to now that I am taking care of myself. :

I still have some issues, and he does, and everyone in our family has little quirks, but maybe we can use them as strengths instead of weakness.

I would really like to get him evaluated for SN but I dont really know where to go for it - (We homeschool) Or what to say. and I am just learning how to accomplish goals. (Being biplolar made it nearly impossioble for me to actually get anything DONE.)

[Lily Eve]

Originally Posted by mama_mojo

Yea, yea, he should not have hit her. But was she manhandling him? I mean, really? If so, more power to him. That's called self-defense. Shame on her, I mean really! If you could hear what was going on, then she COULD have called to you that she needed help. Really, shame on her!

So, now you know another little area of politeness your child needs help learning, but she sure has set things off on the wrong foot for you. UGH!

One of my children is a bit spacy, and even at 9, might stare blankly at you for a few seconds before he comprehended that you asked him something, and then another few seconds before it clicked that you asked him to open the door. Yes, he knows to open doors for people, but if he's reading or watching a bird, then he just might not hear you at first. Another child cannot stand being put on the spot and at 5, she was uncertain of her ability to open particular doors, and in the situation you describe, I can see her refusing because she would have been afraid of failing at the task. Yes, we're working on this one, too, and two years later, she still might not open the door, but she will offer to hold something while you open it. My third, I won't count because she's still quite little.

My point is, without knowing your child, I can immediately see reasons why a child this age would refuse. And manhandling anyone is no way to teach them something or win cooperation. I see the point of how your son made a mistake, but he's FIVE. I assume your mother is older?

Totally agree with this post!!

[Lily Eve]

Originally Posted by AbbieB

I'm going to go waaaaay out on a limb and say I completely disagree with everyone here on the door opening.

Yes, it is polite to hold a door when someone asks you to. But it is not a punishable offense if it does not happen.

I absolutely do NOT expect my children to "say how high when I say jump."
.

Yep. I agree.

[Lily Eve]

Originally Posted by lab

I just wanted to say that I feel really bad for your Mom. How should shse deal with this child. Who hits her on a regular basis and tells her he hates her.

I felt like she was getting a raw deal when I initially read your post, but your last couple of posts have sealed it.

Your ds is nasty to her. I bet she wasn't calling him a name as much as stating a fact that he was nasty to her.

Honestly, it sounds like you were spinning this to make your mom look bad and protect your son. I'm sure you weren't doing it on purpose. But based on the way the information is coming out (halted and slow), it does seem like you aren't/weren't giving the whole picture.

I feel exactly the opposite. DS is probably nasty to the grandmother because the grandmother doesn't treat him with respect and so he reciprocates. The grandmother manhandled the mother of this boy while she was growing up, so she was probably doing the same thing to the son. If the boy has space issues, perhaps the grandmother should respect that. I would be inclined to believe the boy and not the grandmother. I mean, if anyone manhandled my son, grandmother or otherwise, I think I would lash out at them too.

[transformed]

Originally Posted by Lily Eve

I feel exactly the opposite. DS is probably nasty to the grandmother because the grandmother doesn't treat him with respect and so he reciprocates. The grandmother manhandled the mother of this boy while she was growing up, so she was probably doing the same thing to the son. If the boy has space issues, perhaps the grandmother should respect that. I would be inclined to believe the boy and not the grandmother. I mean, if anyone manhandled my son, grandmother or otherwise, I think I would lash out at them too.

This is very similar to my view and Its is very hard to figure out how to maintain a relationship with my mother while feeling this way.

It is not bad enough to cut my parents off, and my dad is an absolute gem, but it is quite hard considering my mom.

If my dad were gone, I dont think I would have a relationship with my mom.

Neither one of my parents respect the kids though. Its not how they were taught to treat kids. We hear alot of "Aw, that didnt hurt." and "Dont cry"

[MOMYS]

Transformed, I think you have already made up your mind regarding this situation...

[mammal_mama]

transformed -- we homeschool and my youngest has some special needs. We're getting evaluations through our local children's hospital, and the evaluations are covered by dd's Medicaid (I'm not sure what insurance you guys have). To start the evaluations, I first talked with dd's primary doctor, who agreed that dd might benefit from some help, and gave us the referral to the hospital.

The speech pathologist also thinks dd has some sensory issues. We're awaiting evaluations in the Occupational Therapy department and the Behavioral/Developmental department. But as for now, the pathologist has recommended speech therapy 2x a week. Since the school district provides 1 session a week for free, she wants us to go with that 1 day a week, and come to the hospital for the other session.

Even when you homeschool, any services provided through your local school district that your child qualifies for, are available for your child. For free. Simply because you're a taxpayer and you live in that district.

This in no way means that if you get your child evaluated, you "have" to use whatever services are recommended. You always have the right to decline. We definitely want dd to have the speech therapy -- but are not at all interested in putting her in preschool (something recommended). Just take what works for you and your child, and leave the rest!

You can learn a lot in the Special Needs forum, I wish I'd started hanging out there a long time ago -- but, you know, sometimes it takes us parents a while to recognize our child might have a special need.

About your mom -- do you live with her, or does she live with you or just spend a lot of time at your house? I ask because we had a lot of stress a few years back when we stayed with my mom for a while (6 months) for financial reasons. I quickly realized that it wasn't going to work out, and it took a few months but we finally dug ourselves out enough financially to get our own place again.

Once we were living separately from her, things got better for a while. We eventually did have to break contact, though.

If you are living at your mom's, I hope you're able to get out soon. I realize some families can function well in situations like this, but it doesn't sound like your mom is happy in the situation, and I don't think she'll be able to properly support what you're trying to do to help your son.

[phathui5]

I could see calling a kid who's hitting you a nasty little kid. Hitting someone is a particularly nasty sort of thing to do.

[hippiemommaof4]

Originally Posted by transformed

so wwyd?

I can only deal with my child. Not my mom. ()

PS - I just told him that he needs to open the door for someone when asked and he said "She didnt say please."




??????

LOL welll ok thats just too funny...sorry I have nothing to add but that part made me LOL

[ewe+lamb]

Originally Posted by transformed

PS - I just told him that he needs to open the door for someone when asked and he said "She didnt say please."

I haven't read all the responses so please excuse me if this has already been mentioned, my first thought when I read this was, well it depends HOW the child is asked, if I say to my kids 'open the door' they will not, and nor should they IMO, I wouldn't want to either, treat others as we expected to be treated ourselves, it sounds as if your mother may have given a command and your child didn't like it, your child shouldn't have hit, your mother shouldn't have called names - no one is innocent in this situation but I do believe that if your mother had been polite in the first instance none of this would have happened.

[weliveintheforest]

Originally Posted by transformed

How would you handle this?

My dd is younger, so I am kinda guesstimating, but I would consider it dealt with now that he helped with dinner and they 'made up'. I don't think forcing him to apologize, or do anything else like make a card (one of the many suggestions) would help this situation.

I would talk about it again with my child, and help them to work through it, hoping they would want to apologize if it was warranted, but I don't see how forcing it teaches them to feel sorry. I might say something to the Grandma in front of the child, including something like, "I'm sorry ds hit you" to open the communication.