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what am I supposed to do? please, I need help - Page 2

post #21 of 49
my nights are pretty awful, too. i saw the clock every hour last night. so no advice, just

if you figure anything out, let me know.
post #22 of 49
I don't think I had a full nights rest till my kids were 18 months old. It was so awful and I didn't have a toddler on top of it. It is such a hard thing to do with no help. I second that swaddling might help. Will either take a pacifier?(only one of mine would and only occasionally but it helped sometimes)

I hope it is just a phase/teething issue and that it gets better soon.
post #23 of 49
You need some sort of help now! Go to your public health unit or doctors, ask around, there are always good people out there willing to help - even for free - often retired nurses or the such would come over for a bit of time, a retired day care worker, etc. LOOK! You need some time for yourself. I agree with you about going to bed at the same time as them, not only that but you would be going to bed with them, really no break for you. Please take some time to ask around and find someone, anyone for a few hours here and there. I have 7 month old twins and a 2.5 year old and I can sympathize and even though I have a husband at home, there are nights I see every hour, but I refuse to nurse all the time at night (only once or twice and I keep them in their room only because I really am not great at co-sleeping and know that in due time, they will be better off in their own space), I really truly know they don't need it after a full day of food and nursing (although controversial on this board for some though).

As for you toddler - I have devised a sleep rule system as my dd was sleeping through the night since 12 weeks old and just recently got up a lot -now we have rules for her bed (no getting up, closing eyes, going to sleep, etc.) and if she does a good job then she gets a treat - not ideal but it is working and at least I don't have to worry about her right now too!

But please find some help - I had a really bad day on Monday and for the first time just lost it on myself, needed to phone a friend and get her to come and add some new energy to my house that day. We all have them and it is how we deal with it - for yourself you need to deal with this now!

Good luck and all of my extra energy is pointed in your direction right now.
post #24 of 49
I have no advice for you, my twins are 5months and sleeping okay some nights and our 3 1/2 year old is in our bed cause it's easier for all of us. But, I can offer lots of hugs and hope that things get better for you soon.
post #25 of 49
Mama Tigress,

My experience is unpopular here but I thought I would share it with you anyway, maybe it will help you in some way or another.

When we were cosleeping naps were a big problem. Actually, sleeping next to us was the only way they would sleep at that time. Unfortunately my babies fussed all the time b/c I couldn't get them to sleep for more than 15 minutes at a time. Maybe I was doing something wrong, I don't know.

Around 5.5 months of age my duo started waking every hour at night. I would nurse and rock for 30 minutes until they were sleepy/asleep, and put them down. Literally 30 minutes later they would be awake again. All night long. For two nights in a row. Just how long can a person go without any sleep at all I ask you? Anyway, that was what drove me to desperate measures. It was hard to do, but it's also hard to go without sleep at all - me AND the babies! Let me just say in one word Weissbluth. I cried, but truthfully the amount of crying that was happening all night long was just as painful. Eventually even their naps improved and I'm very happy to say that we have good sleepers now.

At that time I still got up 4 times a night to nurse. Then it was 3-4 times. By 8 months it was 2-3 times, then 1-2 times. At 10 months they stopped waking during the night to nurse by their own choice. I didn't use a fade technique or anything. And they continue to nap well. Weissbluth writes that sleeping through the night usually happens around 9 months and is dependent upon brain maturity, not nutrient intake.

Honestly, I never thought that I would have taken the approach that I did. But I do believe that different babies are different and require different approaches. What works for some babies may not work for others. However, I understand that a parent should give it 2 weeks before determining that a method is not working for their baby. Switching before 2w has passed can be confusing to a baby.

Good luck and I hope your children start sleeping better soon.
post #26 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by mama_tigress View Post
I haven't been around in ages. I'm sorry to come in and just post asking for advice, but things aren't going well at all and I'm absolutely desperate.

My babies (8.5 months old) won't sleep. They're sleeping 30-45 minute stretches at night. Both of them. I've tried everything I can think of. And when one wakes up, if the other wakes up too, there is absolutely no way to get them back to sleep. I can't nurse them together because they harass each other (pull ears and hair, etc.). I can't get one back to sleep and then the other, because neither will go back to sleep if the other is crying. They're at the point where they only want to sleep while being held.

Right now they are upstairs screaming in their cribs because I honestly had NO OTHER CHOICE. I can take one out of the room and get him back to sleep, but at that point neither will really let me put him back down to go get the other. I don't get anywhere. Even if I can put them back down, they wake up again 45 minutes later and it repeats.

On top of this, my 2.5-year-old is waking up multiple times a night as well. He had been doing great, but now he's back to waking a lot and has more anxiety (probably because I've been having more emotional difficulties myself the past 3-4 days; there is a lot going on and I'm very overwhelmed). I've spent the past two nights with a baby on either side of me and my older son at my feet, completely unable to move, and periodically dealing with babies who wouldn't go back to sleep. They do sleep better when I'm in bed with them, but I can't go to bed at 7 every night.

Can you tell how desperate I am? Any ideas? I adore these babies and I feel like dirt letting them scream, but I simply don't know what else to do.
Ellie.....

I do not have any sage advice for you,since I could have written your post. We've been busy with hitting milestones (crawling/pulling up, as well as teething), and I'm sure it has a lot to do with these things.

I second everyone's advice to ask for help .... you've got to get some rest. Please know that I'm thinking about you.

Keep us posted, and your boys are beautiful!
post #27 of 49
Can you hire a night nurse for a few nights? In my local mother's group that was one mama's solution to getting more sleep without letting her baby cry it out. She said her DD's sleep improved greatly after having the night nanny there.

I hope you can get more sleep soon. Sleep deprivation is miserable.
post #28 of 49
I thought MDC was sleep-training-talk free? ::

Twins are hard, but CIO is not on the table. Unplug the clock in your bedroom, it helps.
post #29 of 49
remind me of this when i write in with sleep deprivation later but sometimes i think a shift in expectations is the most helpful tool (with most of parenting!) so i'd second the trash the alarm clock.
then remember that closed eyes and lying down counts as sleep!!!

the needing time out i so understand. i go the co sleeping route though, because despite my frustrations i should really lay down anyway. LOL. there just are these phases in parenting, and as hard as they are I guess I see them as pointing to surrender.

I. AM. A. MUMMY. woah. it still rocks my world

i think we could all do with help, but i also know we can all cope without it if that's what we'd prefer. i get worried with the 'get help now' responses because sometimes they can aggravate an already wobbly feeling to crisis status, when what we can often need is simply regrounding and a shoulder to share on.

so, if you know you need help - get it
if you just need to vent, know that it will pass and you are doing a FAB FAB job and you'll have plenty of me time moments as they grow older and fly the nest.......
post #30 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by yogafeet View Post
I thought MDC was sleep-training-talk free? ::

Twins are hard, but CIO is not on the table. Unplug the clock in your bedroom, it helps.
Isn't there a difference between sleep-training and CIO, though? I don't know who Weissbluth is (sorry!), but I know there are some methods of sleep-training that aren't CIO or abandonment-baed. You know, the kind where you pat the baby or rock, but don't nurse (is it called night-weaning?), where you work gradually to help the baby learn to sleep better - I mean, part of being a parent is showing and teaching our kids the skills they need to be adults (gradually, over the course of 18 or so years!). Not pushing them into something they're not ready for, but helping them do what they are ready for.

Yeah, I guess, enough to say: I don't think equating every form of sleep-training with straight-out CIO is fair.
post #31 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by vanauken View Post
Isn't there a difference between sleep-training and CIO, though?

Yeah, I guess, enough to say: I don't think equating every form of sleep-training with straight-out CIO is fair.
I thought the same thing (also don't know about the Weissbluth guy). I thought methods such as Elizabeth Pantley's were acceptable here.
post #32 of 49
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by yogafeet View Post
I thought MDC was sleep-training-talk free? ::

Twins are hard, but CIO is not on the table. Unplug the clock in your bedroom, it helps.
Well, if the options are CIO or seriously hurt the children, then yes, CIO is on the table. And yes, that's where I was at midnight last night.

And I don't even have a clock in my bedroom.

Can you tell how I'm doing? : Twins are hard, yes. Twins and a 2.5-year-old are even harder. Doing all of this COMPLETELY ON MY OWN is apparently impossible.

I now have one baby who will only sleep at night if he's being held. Not even in bed next to me, ONLY while being held. Plus my 2.5-year-old is waking up 2-3 times a night also, and waking everybody up.

No clue what to do, except that I might have to either hire somebody or convince my parents to sleep train them (and yes, I mean CIO, full-on Weissbluth style...better that than end up hurting them or worse).

And yes, I am seeing a psychiatrist, although since my main problem is lack of sleep I'm not sure how much it will help. And I am not going to hurt my children. But I sure as heck got close--it's the knowing when to leave the room that separates me from somebody who'd actually do it.

Thanks for all of the support and advice. I did side-car the crib like I had with DS1, and so at least I'm not afraid of babies rolling out of bed at night.
post #33 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by vanauken View Post
Isn't there a difference between sleep-training and CIO, though? I don't know who Weissbluth is (sorry!), but I know there are some methods of sleep-training that aren't CIO or abandonment-baed. You know, the kind where you pat the baby or rock, but don't nurse (is it called night-weaning?), where you work gradually to help the baby learn to sleep better - I mean, part of being a parent is showing and teaching our kids the skills they need to be adults (gradually, over the course of 18 or so years!). Not pushing them into something they're not ready for, but helping them do what they are ready for.

Yeah, I guess, enough to say: I don't think equating every form of sleep-training with straight-out CIO is fair.

I agree, not all sleep training should be equated to CIO... I was responding in particular to the posts about Weissbluth and having your parents take the babies and have them STTN within 1-3 nights. Weissbluth is known as a CIO method, and getting your kids to STTN in 1-3 nights sounds like it to me as well. I don't like condemning people but I am passionately against these methods. I think they are cruel, unusual and abusive. Other forms of sleep training, like night weaning, I don't have a problem with when done at the right age for your child and you... in fact I will start thinking about that ion the coming months and will be looking for advice.

Moving on though I want to send Mama Tigress support. It sounds like you have hit bottom. In your case it sounds like CIO is better than hurting your babies and I absolutely agree. I know where you are coming from. I have been reading your blog when I check in to this board from time to time and I have seen a rational, loving mom. I know that you want the best for your kids and I know that you are doing your best. It sounds like you don't have a support system. I am so sorry. I have definitely had nights where I just could not be the one to be there for the twins... I have come close to hitting rock bottom when it comes to sleep deprivation. Fortunately, that is when I tell dh he needs to drive the girls around and then sleep in the parking lot in the car with them. Then I can get 1-2 hours of sleep and when they wake up they come up to nurse back down. Where is your dh at night? I couldn't even imagine doing it all alone every night with a 2 year old to boot! No wonder you are losing it. Really.

Is it possible to talk with your dh and tell him you need help at night? You need time for you... to decompress a little. It seems you have this heavy weight of your entire household on your shoulders. That is just too much for one person.

Twins are unbelievably taxing. I am so sorry that you are having such a rough time. We are here for you. Continue to update us and let us know how you are doing. If you need a twin buddy, PM me and I will be it!

:::
post #34 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by yogafeet View Post
I agree, not all sleep training should be equated to CIO... I was responding in particular to the posts about Weissbluth and having your parents take the babies and have them STTN within 1-3 nights.

Where is your dh at night?

:::
I think we need to be careful when talking about sleep training/night weaning. There have been nights when I am exhausted and DH will get up with the babies for the whole night - they will refuse bottles and fall back to sleep while rocking in about 30 seconds. Then the next few nights, they will sttn. It is only when I go to them that they demand milk. I think the same thing may have happened w/ pp and grandparents coming over which led to sttn. Babies want love and assurance at night but this doesn't always have to come in the form of nursing. Every baby/parent/situation is different and though I feel I know the "right" way to parent my children, I want to be careful about making blanket statements as to what will work for every family. Remember ap is not a checklist.

I may be wrong, but I believe mama tigress is single. So this changes the whole dynamic for her. She is working 24/7 - no breaks, no time to catch her breath. She is beyond tired. I feel for her and support her with whatever decisions she makes for the good of her entire family - all three dc and mama.

Sorry if this sounds snarky, that is not my intention.
post #35 of 49
Thread Starter 
Yeah, I'm separated, so I'm doing all this as a single mama at the moment.

In the light of day things seem more reasonable, especially when I've gotten out and had fun with the kids. I know things will get easier with time. I just need to buy myself a few months, somehow.

I would definitely night wean if I could think of a way to do that with 9-month-olds (and they're not even 7 months corrected). I could try to get somebody to help.

sigh
thanks all
post #36 of 49
Sorry, I didn't know you were single!

We're here for you
post #37 of 49
I am here for support mama tigress - I have a wonderful, loving and extremely helpful husband at home and I can get to the stage you are talking about! Everyone knows that twins are hard - no more so than on this site. Please lets just be kind and helpful to everyone - I don't think that we should exclude anyone from talking on this site as we are just all trying to get through life and it obviously helps to have friends out there that are all in the same situation.
I know what you mean that in the light of day it all seems different - how frustrating is that but also very good as it puts all our frustrations into perspective. What I wrote earlier about the sleep rules for the toddler really has worked this week with my 2.5 year old. She really is getting it and awfully proud of herself in the morning when she wakes up really rested and in her own bed! So fun to see!
Here's hoping to you being able to find some concrete help that you need!
post #38 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by mama_tigress View Post
Yeah, I'm separated, so I'm doing all this as a single mama at the moment.

In the light of day things seem more reasonable, especially when I've gotten out and had fun with the kids.
me too! their dad does spend some time around here sometimes though (is mostly useful with the older children), plus the older children will hold a baby or two whilst i cook (lunch at 4 o clock!) on really hard days. i find i'm actually most stressed by my inner dialogue about the separation and feelings about their dad which i sometimes find i'm taking out on the children iykwim.

i also find the amount of crying really hard to deal with.

my clock is hidden by the junk piled up in front of it
post #39 of 49
I'm so sorry, Ellie! : You are doing the best you can. Most people cannot comprehend how hard it is to have newborn twins, plus a 2 year old. I had my dh's help at night and I still almost went crazy. Things will get better! They really will. My twins are 3 now and I *almost* have forgotten those terrible nights of no sleep. In an ideal world, all babies could co-sleep comfortably next to mama, but sometimes the real world isn't like that. We did co-sleep for 2 years and I did not get much sleep during that time. No advice, really, just wanted to offer support. Sleep deprivation can literally make a person crazy and I remember almost hallucinating at times. Hope things get better soon. :
post #40 of 49
Have you looked at this method for night weaning?
http://www.drjaygordon.com/development/ap/sleep.asp

It's more of a selective night weaning than all-out - that is, you pick whatever hours you want your babies to be able to sleep, and then work with that. The author does not recommend it for babies under a year unless there's an emergency. Well, I think major sleep deprivation turning us into MoMsters is an emergency.

We tried this in our house, and it worked okay, except we picked the wrong hours (11-4), and so the girls were ready to be up for the day at 4. Now we're trying it again but doing 12 or 1 to 6am. So if you try it, I recommend making the final hour in the sleep stretch the aimed-for wake up time.

I understand the lack of sleep making you crazy thing. I am NO good whatsoever without consecutive hours of sleep. The past few months have been so hard.

I hope things get easier for you.
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