"He won't remember it when he is older..."

[mamakah]

***Why is this a 'good' argument to pro circs? Does that mean that I could lop off his toe since he won't remember the pain? ugh!!! What are some of the ridiculous (actually heartless) comments you have heard?

[Fellow Traveler]

Originally Posted by sages

***Why is this a 'good' argument to pro circs? Does that mean that I could lop off his toe since he won't remember the pain? ugh!!! What are some of the ridiculous (actually heartless) comments you have heard?

He might have to get it done later.
He will have to clean it.
I would have to teach him to clean it.
He will be traumatized if he doesn't look like dad.
I would have to explain why he is different from dad.
And all the prevents.

[Dabble]

I think the one I hate the most is the nursing home argument, AKA the "Grandpa Edgar had a stinky penis" story.

Okay, I'll cut my baby boy's penis in case he ever is a 98-year-old bedridden man being cared for in a substandard health care facility so his genitals don't bother the day staff. I'm sure the other 97 years he had with his penis won't matter for anything.

And while I'm at it, I'll cut my baby daughter's outer labia off in case she's ever in the same situation. Wouldn't want to cause her future nursing home caregivers any trouble.

[MommytoB]

I think most pro-circ's may realize it's wrong but are hoping that when their son's do get circ that they don't remember the 'wrong thing the parents did' and half the time many circ men don't even realize they are circ because they think intact men are the circumcised ones because the 'glans' are not showing in a flaccid intact male state .

They think the intact male lost their glans as in being castrated.

It's like when wives end up mention you would get a guy to cringe if you would ever suggest putting a knife down to his jewels and I just go if they act this protective over already altered jewels why wouldn't they think a intact male would feel the same way ?

[Night_Nurse]

I think the absolute worst "excuse" I ever read was from someone claiming to be a nurses aide on another website. She said she worked in a nursing home and sometimes having an uncircumcised penis led to men getting hernias. So that is why you should circumcise your babies. Hahahaha! Hernia's have absolutely nothing to do with genitals at all, and my grandmother once had one, I guess because we didn't circumcise her!

[mntnmom]

"*I* think circ'd ones look better." From a woman with an INTACT husband!:

[tlh]

"It was right for our family".How can your son's penis be right for your family?Your family doesn't use it,your son does.

[Theoretica]

I wonder if, just hypothetically speaking, we could just bonk someone for saying that, and then say well...you won't remember that when you're older...what with the impending Alzheimers and all...

KIDDING...I promise....don't bonk people for saying poorly thought out arguments.

[kiara7]

The most idiotic comment I've read went like this:


"I had my 2 boys circ'ed. My sil had her son done too. She didn't take care of it, the wound got infected a couple of times, it was horrible. I'm so glad I had my son done."

:

[Funny Face]

"My friend's intact son got made fun of in the locker room in middle school and I don't want my son to go through that."

Kids make fun of EVERYTHING in middle school! If they make fun of his nose are you gonna get a nose job in middle school? If they tease your daughter for having a flat chest will you get her breast implants?

I think all in all it always goes back to lack of education and a true fear of the unknown. I don't know how easy the decision would have been for me if my husband wasn't intact and I knew that all those reasons are bunk.

All my extended family have made comments about my newborn ds when I'm changing his diaper, not knowing that dh is intact too- it really gets under our skin!

[beru]

I used to do clinical testing in a hospital. I once had a patient who was elderly and had serious memory issues. In fact, she had almost no short-term memory. Still, I explained everything I was doing as I went along. I even explained some of the purpose and possible results of the tests as I would for any patient. Her daughter was with us and kept sighing. She finally said, in an exasperated voice, "She is going to forget what you're saying the minute after you say it so don't even bother." I didn't listen to her.

All this woman had left was each present moment. And in each moment she still deserved her dignity and to be treated with respect. I imagine she was constantly confused and stressed, because at all times, she was in an unknown situation And in this case, a strange person touching her body, etc., I imagine it could be extremely stressful. By engaging her, she wasn't being ignored or "having things done to her". I believe this old women could embrace the respect I was giving her even if she couldn't remember moment to moment because that respect was hopefully comforting to her and had an effect on her body. That's my theory anyway.

That experience made a huge impact on me and that was well before I had children or knew anything about circumcision. Now, whenever any one says "He won't remember it" about circ, I think of this woman. Every human being has inherent worth and dignity, including newborn children. They should all be afforded respect in every single one of their "present moments".

[robertandenith]

Originally Posted by beru

I used to do clinical testing in a hospital. I once had a patient who was elderly and had serious memory issues. In fact, she had almost no short-term memory. Still, I explained everything I was doing as I went along. I even explained some of the purpose and possible results of the tests as I would for any patient. Her daughter was with us and kept sighing. She finally said, in an exasperated voice, "She is going to forget what you're saying the minute after you say it so don't even bother." I didn't listen to her.

All this woman had left was each present moment. And in each moment she still deserved her dignity and to be treated with respect. I imagine she was constantly confused and stressed, because at all times, she was in an unknown situation And in this case, a strange person touching her body, etc., I imagine it could be extremely stressful. By engaging her, she wasn't being ignored or "having things done to her". I believe this old women could embrace the respect I was giving her even if she couldn't remember moment to moment because that respect was hopefully comforting to her and had an effect on her body. That's my theory anyway.

That experience made a huge impact on me and that was well before I had children or knew anything about circumcision. Now, whenever any one says "He won't remember it" about circ, I think of this woman. Every human being has inherent worth and dignity, including newborn children. They should all be afforded respect in every single one of their "present moments".

beautiful!!!!

may I use your words to help others?!?! what a great way to see beyond the 'pain' from circumcision.

[nd_deadhead]

My babies don't remember me holding them close when they were newborns. They don't remember me singing them lullabies until I got hoarse. They don't remember me feeding them or changing their diapers. They don't remember me kissing the tops of their wonderful little heads, or stroking their adorable cheeks, or tickling their tummies.

So why did I bother? Why didn't I leave them crying in their swings and take a long hot bath? They wouldn't remember anyway.

[latinalonestar]

Originally Posted by nd_deadhead

My babies don't remember me holding them close when they were newborns. They don't remember me singing them lullabies until I got hoarse. They don't remember me feeding them or changing their diapers. They don't remember me kissing the tops of their wonderful little heads, or stroking their adorable cheeks, or tickling their tummies.

So why did I bother? Why didn't I leave them crying in their swings and take a long hot bath? They wouldn't remember anyway.

Good point!

Infants can suffer long lasting trauma even if they can't "remember".

[snangel]

Originally Posted by Chimpmandee

I think the one I hate the most is the nursing home argument, AKA the "Grandpa Edgar had a stinky penis" story.

Okay, I'll cut my baby boy's penis in case he ever is a 98-year-old bedridden man being cared for in a substandard health care facility so his genitals don't bother the day staff. I'm sure the other 97 years he had with his penis won't matter for anything.

And while I'm at it, I'll cut my baby daughter's outer labia off in case she's ever in the same situation. Wouldn't want to cause her future nursing home caregivers any trouble.

This is my ultimate worse one...it makes me really angry every time.

Originally Posted by tlh

"It was right for our family".How can your son's penis be right for your family?Your family doesn't use it,your son does.

Urgggg yah cause your son's penis will be used by the whole family...:

Originally Posted by nd_deadhead

My babies don't remember me holding them close when they were newborns. They don't remember me singing them lullabies until I got hoarse. They don't remember me feeding them or changing their diapers. They don't remember me kissing the tops of their wonderful little heads, or stroking their adorable cheeks, or tickling their tummies.

So why did I bother? Why didn't I leave them crying in their swings and take a long hot bath? They wouldn't remember anyway.

Yah I have no idea why I even care for my children, they won't remember it...oh wait they will. Their brains are developing, and categorizing everything in their world.
http://www.pslgroup.com/dg/1f21e.htm
http://www.theparentreport.com/resou...opment/74.html

[Fyrestorm]

Okay...so if you slip a girl a rupee and rape her, it's fine cause she won't remember it!

Or I could have burned my DD with cigarettes as an infant it would have caused beautiful scarring (cause you know I prefer a scarred child) and she wouldn't have remembered it.

[Fyrestorm]

The most interesting thing will be when those boys are old enough to realize what was done to them and google it....no excuse that mommy uses to explain it away will matter because the truth is out there and mommy had access to it when she mutilated him...I have a feeling in about 10-15 years there is going to be a whole lot of backlash...

"Mom, you cut my penis penis up when you knew it was the wrong thing to do? How could you have done this to me?"

[Mama2Jesse]

I. Love. You. People.
You pulled me out of lurkdom... I live in NE Texas, 85% circ rate and some decidely forekin-unfriendly peds. : I have a four month old intact son, yet I live in Circville.

Think they've all been covered, but I hate hate hate the "I prefer cut penises" excuse. Are you *really* basing a decision to alter your child's genitals on your own sexual preference? Ew on so many levels, just EW.

"It's just what you do"... are you effing KIDDING ME?! *head rotates* SO, because it's socially acceptable to hurt and maim your infant, you're going to go with the whole baby slicing herd?!

Snarl.

[brant31]

Originally Posted by jwhispers

He will be traumatized if he doesn't look like dad.
I would have to explain why he is different from dad.

This one just stumps me.

At one time, the USA was nearly entirely intact. Then circumcision came along.

So, following this logic, suddenly we had millions of boys who didn't "look like Dad" in the first part of the 20th century. Are we supposed to believe that the male half of our country was traumatized because a whole generation of boys were circumcised, while their fathers and grandfathers were not? If so, how did it affect our country and these men's ability to be good citizens and fathers? If not, why not? And why is protecting a boy and keeping him the way nature made him "riskier" and "harder to explain to him" than cutting off half the skin of his penis when his dad is whole?

Am I missing some logic here?

[Dabble]

Originally Posted by beru

That experience made a huge impact on me and that was well before I had children or knew anything about circumcision. Now, whenever any one says "He won't remember it" about circ, I think of this woman. Every human being has inherent worth and dignity, including newborn children. They should all be afforded respect in every single one of their "present moments".

That's simply lovely. How can anyone argue with that?

Originally Posted by nd_deadhead

My babies don't remember me holding them close when they were newborns. They don't remember me singing them lullabies until I got hoarse. They don't remember me feeding them or changing their diapers. They don't remember me kissing the tops of their wonderful little heads, or stroking their adorable cheeks, or tickling their tummies.

So why did I bother? Why didn't I leave them crying in their swings and take a long hot bath? They wouldn't remember anyway.

So so true! Mothers do all sorts of wonderful things for their babies, knowing that they will never remember any of it. We know enough about baby brain development to know that these wonderful times of bonding are so valuable and vital to a child's normal development. But somehow we think that a brand-new to the world infant can experience excruciating pain in his genitals and not be affected by it. It's absolutely insane.

Originally Posted by Mama2Jesse

I. Love. You. People.
You pulled me out of lurkdom... I live in NE Texas, 85% circ rate and some decidely forekin-unfriendly peds. : I have a four month old intact son, yet I live in Circville.

Welcome, welcome, to MDC! Thank you for keeping your son intact despite the social pressure to do otherwise! Stick around and help give other people the courage to do the same!