Yesterday I took DS (5.5 months) to the ped for his second HiB. We are doing selective/delayed. He had first HiB at 2 months. First DTaP at 4 months. second HiB yesterday, and planning on second DTap in a few weeks at 6 month WBV. Obviously we skipped the rota vax. And, I had told ped we were not doing Prevnar. At every visit so far the ped has engaged me in conversation about our vax choices. She has not been rude or condescending, just persistent about voicing her pro-vax opinions.
So yesterday, we got into the exam room pretty quickly, but then had to wait 30 minutes for ped to come in. DS was getting a little fussy as nursing and nap time was pretty much upon us. Then the dr. proceeded to engage me in a 30 minute (!!) conversation about vaccinating in general, and Prevnar specifically. The whole time, of course, I'm thinking about poor DS who has been stuck here waiting and waiting. He did eventually just fall asleep. Anyway, here are some highlights:
* She totally unleashed herself on Dr. Robert Sears (when I did my interview with her before DS was born, she said she didn't even know the Vaccine Book.). She said he was just riding on his father's coat tails, just using the Sears name. (nevermind that Dr. Sears DOES recommend Prevnar...). She said that the practice (3 docs and a nurse practitioner) went through the book section by section and found many scientific and ethical problems. "Hmmmm..." I thought to myself...."sounds a lot like that recent Offit article in Pediatrics..." She even mentioned some of the same things Offit did. She then went on to recommend the book that Offit has written about vaxes.
* When I said one reason for not doing Prevnar was that while Pc-related meningitis cases had decreased, overall meningitis rates had not, she said that was not true. Anyone got a quick link to that particular info so I can bring her a copy?
*She basically said that serotype replacement can happen, but that that was a dumb reason not to get a particular vax.
*She said since Prevnar has been introduced, she's seen a significant decrease in ear infections AND antibiotic-resistant ear infections. Didn't I read somewhere that Prevnar has been associated with only a slight decrease in ear infections? And an increase in antibiotic-resistant ear infections?
*She said non-vaxing has lead to outbreaks of measles and pertussis. Haven't pertussis rates increased since vaxing began? And aren't they cyclical? Quick! Need the link!
*Giving chicken pox and flu vaxes as examples, she said that every time a patient of hers who wasn't given these vaxes has come down with these illnesses, the parents regret not vaxing.
*I mentioned my disenchantment with the "well, your breastmilk has aluminum in it" argument. She said they use that argument because people seem to think that everything natural is good and toxin-free. I explained my reason for disenchantment - the difference between ingesting a small amount of aluminum that mostly passes right through the digestive system vs. injecting a large amount into the baby's muscle. I mentioned a study I read where rabbits were given what is presumed the safe max. amount of aluminum to give a baby in one day and that for 28 days the rabbits eliminated the aluminum at a constnat rate. The researchers concluded that this was good...the aluminum was being expelled consistently. I said what concerned me was that 1) the rabbits were euthanized before that rate ever dropped, so who knows how long some alum would have stayed in the body? 2) the alum was in the body for 28 days (!!) traveling from organ to organ, including the brain!!
*The doc called in reinforeements, so to speak. The doc who founded the practice was my ped when I was little and according to DS's ped, he is the most "laid back" about the vax thing. She said she and the nurse practitioner were pro-vax but willing to talk with parents. The brand new fresh-outta-school doc is PRO-VAX! and has taken on anti-vax arguments has his pet project. (This new doc, btw, almost did not let me bring DS for his post-birth checkup because I was GBS+ and he was born in a birth center that sends mommies and babies home after just 12 hours.) So, at one point our ped is in teh hall and I can hear her talking with young doc about my concerns. I couldn't really make out all they were saying, but he was definitely coaching her on things to say. Ultimately, she asked him to print some articles out for me. He asked me if I wanted ones for parents or the medical community and I said defiinitely medical. He gave me an Offit article that I thought I had already received, but it seems lightly different. Anyway, here's the kicker about young doc: he says to me, "I always tell parents that if your baby is breastfed, he's getting about a hundred thousands times the aluminum as are in the vaxes."
Ok, so I go home and immediately start researching and calculating and I came up with this. Assuming that DS gets 750ml breastmilk a day (the average according to kellymom) for the first 12 months, he would ingest 10950 micrograms aluminum in one year. If he got the recommended vaxes on the recommended schedule (I'm including Hep B, DTaP and Prevnar), he would get 2115 micrograms aluminum by 12 months. That's only 5 times more aluminum in the breastmilk, given VERY slowly (30 micrograms per day), and INGESTED!!! (sigh...) vs. much larger amounts given just a few times.
I'm trying to come up with an appropriate analogy here. If one were to assume that the body dealt with injected aluminum the same way it does with injected aluminum (which I know it doesn't, but for the sake of this analogy...)....it's like saying that since research indicates that drinking a moderate amount of red wine (a one or two drinks a day) is good for you, that it's also fine if you have about 15 of those drinks all at once.
Does that analogy work?
Now I need help with another analogy that takes into account the fact that vaxes are injected. What's a substance that wouldn't be too big a deal if we ingested a little every day, but would be terrible to inject in large amounts?
There are probably more delightful nuggets from this visit, but now my fingers are tired. Thank you for listening.
So yesterday, we got into the exam room pretty quickly, but then had to wait 30 minutes for ped to come in. DS was getting a little fussy as nursing and nap time was pretty much upon us. Then the dr. proceeded to engage me in a 30 minute (!!) conversation about vaccinating in general, and Prevnar specifically. The whole time, of course, I'm thinking about poor DS who has been stuck here waiting and waiting. He did eventually just fall asleep. Anyway, here are some highlights:
* She totally unleashed herself on Dr. Robert Sears (when I did my interview with her before DS was born, she said she didn't even know the Vaccine Book.). She said he was just riding on his father's coat tails, just using the Sears name. (nevermind that Dr. Sears DOES recommend Prevnar...). She said that the practice (3 docs and a nurse practitioner) went through the book section by section and found many scientific and ethical problems. "Hmmmm..." I thought to myself...."sounds a lot like that recent Offit article in Pediatrics..." She even mentioned some of the same things Offit did. She then went on to recommend the book that Offit has written about vaxes.
* When I said one reason for not doing Prevnar was that while Pc-related meningitis cases had decreased, overall meningitis rates had not, she said that was not true. Anyone got a quick link to that particular info so I can bring her a copy?
*She basically said that serotype replacement can happen, but that that was a dumb reason not to get a particular vax.
*She said since Prevnar has been introduced, she's seen a significant decrease in ear infections AND antibiotic-resistant ear infections. Didn't I read somewhere that Prevnar has been associated with only a slight decrease in ear infections? And an increase in antibiotic-resistant ear infections?
*She said non-vaxing has lead to outbreaks of measles and pertussis. Haven't pertussis rates increased since vaxing began? And aren't they cyclical? Quick! Need the link!
*Giving chicken pox and flu vaxes as examples, she said that every time a patient of hers who wasn't given these vaxes has come down with these illnesses, the parents regret not vaxing.
*I mentioned my disenchantment with the "well, your breastmilk has aluminum in it" argument. She said they use that argument because people seem to think that everything natural is good and toxin-free. I explained my reason for disenchantment - the difference between ingesting a small amount of aluminum that mostly passes right through the digestive system vs. injecting a large amount into the baby's muscle. I mentioned a study I read where rabbits were given what is presumed the safe max. amount of aluminum to give a baby in one day and that for 28 days the rabbits eliminated the aluminum at a constnat rate. The researchers concluded that this was good...the aluminum was being expelled consistently. I said what concerned me was that 1) the rabbits were euthanized before that rate ever dropped, so who knows how long some alum would have stayed in the body? 2) the alum was in the body for 28 days (!!) traveling from organ to organ, including the brain!!
*The doc called in reinforeements, so to speak. The doc who founded the practice was my ped when I was little and according to DS's ped, he is the most "laid back" about the vax thing. She said she and the nurse practitioner were pro-vax but willing to talk with parents. The brand new fresh-outta-school doc is PRO-VAX! and has taken on anti-vax arguments has his pet project. (This new doc, btw, almost did not let me bring DS for his post-birth checkup because I was GBS+ and he was born in a birth center that sends mommies and babies home after just 12 hours.) So, at one point our ped is in teh hall and I can hear her talking with young doc about my concerns. I couldn't really make out all they were saying, but he was definitely coaching her on things to say. Ultimately, she asked him to print some articles out for me. He asked me if I wanted ones for parents or the medical community and I said defiinitely medical. He gave me an Offit article that I thought I had already received, but it seems lightly different. Anyway, here's the kicker about young doc: he says to me, "I always tell parents that if your baby is breastfed, he's getting about a hundred thousands times the aluminum as are in the vaxes."
Ok, so I go home and immediately start researching and calculating and I came up with this. Assuming that DS gets 750ml breastmilk a day (the average according to kellymom) for the first 12 months, he would ingest 10950 micrograms aluminum in one year. If he got the recommended vaxes on the recommended schedule (I'm including Hep B, DTaP and Prevnar), he would get 2115 micrograms aluminum by 12 months. That's only 5 times more aluminum in the breastmilk, given VERY slowly (30 micrograms per day), and INGESTED!!! (sigh...) vs. much larger amounts given just a few times.
I'm trying to come up with an appropriate analogy here. If one were to assume that the body dealt with injected aluminum the same way it does with injected aluminum (which I know it doesn't, but for the sake of this analogy...)....it's like saying that since research indicates that drinking a moderate amount of red wine (a one or two drinks a day) is good for you, that it's also fine if you have about 15 of those drinks all at once.
Does that analogy work?
Now I need help with another analogy that takes into account the fact that vaxes are injected. What's a substance that wouldn't be too big a deal if we ingested a little every day, but would be terrible to inject in large amounts?
There are probably more delightful nuggets from this visit, but now my fingers are tired. Thank you for listening.
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