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Need help, dh threatening to have it done to babe... - Page 2

post #21 of 77
Quote:
When we were discussing the circe issue, I brought up (in a very gentle and caring way) that I had been with an intact man before, and it is very different for not only the man but also the woman. I don't want to take away my sons' and future partners full pleasure just so my dh is happy.
As a guy I can tell you there is no gentle way of letting a guy know, not only do you think his penis is sub-par, but that you had a more satisfying time with previous partners. In all honesty, for a guy, thats probably one of the worst things they could ever imagine hearing.


I think your getting the response your getting from him because your reasons for not circ'ing have put him on defense. Defense of his beliefs on the male body, and defense of his body and being able to be a good (sexual) lover.
If he agrees to not circ because of your arguments, the only emotional place he has left to go, is where he admits he has been victimized, and has to say there is something wrong with his body.

This is your problem. Because if his circ has caused problems or not, he may not feel that way. From his perspective he may still be really happy with being circumcised, and at the very least its what he identifies with.

If you want this to lead to a positive ending for your whole family (which is important, because families, especially new ones should be united) you need to change your arguments.

Don't argue that one body type is better then another. Make this an argument of personal choice. Talk about the changing rates of circ and who knows what your son wants. And its no big deal, and he should decide.

Take the focus off making a decision, and say that by not circumcising all your doing is not making a decision now. Your putting that decision in the hands of your son.

Talk about early development of the penis, and how its a safe and healthy body part.

Unless you can find ways of making this NOT a value debate then in the end everyone is going to be left emotionally hurt. Also making it a value debate, gives him something to resist against. Make this a decision he will want to make, and not a debate where he feels he HAS to fight against.
post #22 of 77
Warn everybody in the Hospital that ANYBODY who so much as thinks of circumcision of even retraction will get SUED the living daylights out of them and will never practice again. The person who goes against your wishes will see the Law Suit of a lifetime against them. And yes, draw up a piece of paper and hand that to your OB and give it to the hospital yourself. With that kind of paper nobody would do it.

Give that piece of paper to your Ped. Even though your husband could take him somewhere else for it, at least give those folks the heads up.

A man that would do this behind my back against me would find himself with divorce papers rather quickly. It sounds like a threat but I would be absolutely willing to do that. In fact I told my abusive ex husband:Next time you torture the cat I will resort to legal matters-and I did. I know that seems like a trivial comparison to some- but sometimes we need to learn how so say "no more!".

Honestly, I would rethink my marriage in general if I had to live in fear, that somebody could get hurt. Having lived in fear like that- please stand up for yourself and your child if need be. It sucks,but is so worth it.

Good luck!

Oh and please don't make your son's intact status a direct link to his sexuality-although it's true for you it just builds up walls that most circed guys cannot break through. Make it strictly about your son-not your husband's sexuality, if that seems to be backfiring.
post #23 of 77


Deep, deep breath.

Read this link (but do NOT show it to your dh. It's our little secret.) Read it now. Right now! (Click the link already!)

http://www.udonet.com/circumcision/v...ty_of_men.html

Also, do you have a really good friend/relative who could stay with the babe and help make your wishes known?

If August rolls around and dh still feels the same way, I'd say to him, "If I wake up and our baby is circumcised, I will divorce you, and I mean it."
post #24 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by A&A View Post


Deep, deep breath.

Read this link (but do NOT show it to your dh. It's our little secret.) Read it now. Right now! (Click the link already!)

http://www.udonet.com/circumcision/v...ty_of_men.html

Also, do you have a really good friend/relative who could stay with the babe and help make your wishes known?

If August rolls around and dh still feels the same way, I'd say to him, "If I wake up and our baby is circumcised, I will divorce you, and I mean it."
I highly disagree with this link because it creates more barriers in this discussion then it breaks down. Its supposivly the "inside view of a circed guy" yet its not even written by a circed guy.

Following the advice of this article will only lead to further arguments. Its vitally important that people realize that there are many circed men who have no problem with their status (even if that is only because it is the only status they have ever known)

As a cut guy who is against circumcision I can say this link is trying to answer a question in a very simplistic way and this issue is much more complex in the minds of circed men then this article makes it seem.

I only repeat this because I think the OP is at a point where risking her conversations with her husband into further fights is not an option.
post #25 of 77
Take this form and have it signed by a Lawyer. arclaw might help you with the signatures.

That PDF came from this site.

You even have the option to create 'no circ' stickers to place on his diapers and in his bassinet.

Make sure you get the signatures of your baby's doctor and your doctor. All of whom will see the both of you.

Make copies. Keep copies for your records. Send copies to your Lawyer and leave copies to be kept in your hospital files: One for L&D and the other for Pediatrics.

Did someone already suggest you show your dh the penn and teller 'circ is bs' episode yet?
post #26 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quirky View Post
I am going to tell you this one time and one time only.
Unneccessarily combative.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Quirky View Post
Circumcision is not our decision to make for our child. It is his body and his penis and he is the only one who gets to decide whether to cut his foreskin off, when he is an adult.
That's the entire case. End of story.

Maybe I would say "when he's old enough" rather then "when he's an adult."

Quote:
Originally Posted by Quirky View Post
If you go behind my back and violate our child's basic human right to his own bodily self-determination, you will be ending our marriage.
I hate to say this, but the marriage sounds doomed to me. What if the dude actually WANTS out already? We will not have protected the baby by threatening divorce.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Quirky View Post
There is nothing to discuss, nothing to debate. I will not listen to threats to do it, and I will not listen to your tantrums.
I'd suggest answering any and all REASONS he might put forth, as there WILL NOT be one that's valid. If he poses one you haven't got a water-tight rebuttal for, don't try to BS around it, say "I think I saw something about that online. I'll write it down so we can discuss it tomorrow."

Good Luck.
post #27 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by Contrariety View Post
His insistence to circ would be the end of my marriage, period. I would claim in the hospital that I wasn't really so sure he was the father just to buy some time... something... ANYTHING to keep it from happening.

I would leave DH in a heartbeat if he thought that were an acceptable thing to do to anyone, let alone a newborn babe. I guess if it meant that much to him, he would lose me with the foreskin. I'd be preparing for legal action, if any can be taken before the babe were born.

I'm hardcore about it. It would be THE END OF THE EFFING WORLD if someone were seriously thinking about doing that to my child.
THANK YOU! I was flamed in a DDC the other day for saying the same thing. He doesn't deserve compassion. He is an adult and HE needs to deal with his issues. Your job is to protect your child not your husbands feelings. He is threatening you and your unborn child. This is very serious.
post #28 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron_Low View Post
Unneccessarily combative.



That's the entire case. End of story.

Maybe I would say "when he's old enough" rather then "when he's an adult."


I hate to say this, but the marriage sounds doomed to me. What if the dude actually WANTS out already? We will not have protected the baby by threatening divorce.


I'd suggest answering any and all REASONS he might put forth, as there WILL NOT be one that's valid. If he poses one you haven't got a water-tight rebuttal for, don't try to BS around it, say "I think I saw something about that online. I'll write it down so we can discuss it tomorrow."

Good Luck.
Let him end it then! I would end the marriage. Firstly, I could not be married to someone who believes in this practice. I would divorce him and file and order of protection. he has threatened this child. PERIOD. My kids come first.
post #29 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by perspective View Post
As a guy I can tell you there is no gentle way of letting a guy know, not only do you think his penis is sub-par, but that you had a more satisfying time with previous partners. In all honesty, for a guy, thats probably one of the worst things they could ever imagine hearing.


I think your getting the response your getting from him because your reasons for not circ'ing have put him on defense. Defense of his beliefs on the male body, and defense of his body and being able to be a good (sexual) lover.
If he agrees to not circ because of your arguments, the only emotional place he has left to go, is where he admits he has been victimized, and has to say there is something wrong with his body.

This is your problem. Because if his circ has caused problems or not, he may not feel that way. From his perspective he may still be really happy with being circumcised, and at the very least its what he identifies with.

If you want this to lead to a positive ending for your whole family (which is important, because families, especially new ones should be united) you need to change your arguments.

Don't argue that one body type is better then another. Make this an argument of personal choice. Talk about the changing rates of circ and who knows what your son wants. And its no big deal, and he should decide.

Take the focus off making a decision, and say that by not circumcising all your doing is not making a decision now. Your putting that decision in the hands of your son.

Talk about early development of the penis, and how its a safe and healthy body part.

Unless you can find ways of making this NOT a value debate then in the end everyone is going to be left emotionally hurt. Also making it a value debate, gives him something to resist against. Make this a decision he will want to make, and not a debate where he feels he HAS to fight against.
So she needs to do all the work, save the family and make better arguments to save him from EMOTIONAL PAIN?? Are you JOKING? HE is causing major stress and emotional pain to the OP and their unborn child.

He needs to get over himself. If my breasts were flawed and I could not feed my child, I would not have the same flaw done surgically to my daughter to make her like me. HE can't admit his anatomy is flawed and it IS. THATS LIFE! It doesn't work properly and it HURTS females in result. So we should stroke their egos so they don't hurt our children behind our back? HE IS AN ADULT. HE IS AN IGNORANT PERSON. HIS EMOTIONAL PAIN IS A RESULT OF HIS OWN IGNORANT ACTIONS. He is being presented with information and ignoring it ALL because he is insecure about his penis. When you have children, it's not about you anymore.
post #30 of 77
I'm so sorry you have to deal with that, mama.

As someone who went through two c-sections, here are a couple advices.

When my dd was born, my son was only 17mo and, unfortunately, would not stay with ANYONE, but me and dh. So dh had to wait with him in the waiting area while I was having a c-section. We did not want our newborn to spend even one minute in the nursery screaming, so we asked our doula to be with the baby all the time till I was done and in my recovery room ready to meet the baby (she never left my chest after that, as didn't my son when he was born, since we demanded (and you have the right to do so) everything to be done in our room, including ped's check ups).

It worked wonderfully. We authorized her to stay with the baby (hold the baby under her sweater) ahead of time and this is exactly what happened. Ahead of time we told nurses that we declined vit K, HepB, eye ointment, bath etc and that we wanted the baby to remain with the doula at all the time till the baby joins me. Our little girl spent about an hour being worn be our doula under her sweater before she could join me.

Other ideas:

To write with a permanent marker on the baby's tummy, NO-Circ, or MOM sues. Or I wonder if it's possible to order custom temporary. tattoos about it (something to explore).

But just like others, I'm not sure I could enjoy family life if my dh was capable of stealing our baby and mutilating him against my wish...
post #31 of 77
You have 6 months, right? I'd keep telling him that as much as you love him the way he is, you're not going to circ your son. If he continues to insist, I'd move into a friend's or family member's house closer to your due date and not even tell him when you went into labor.
post #32 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by perspective View Post
As a guy I can tell you there is no gentle way of letting a guy know, not only do you think his penis is sub-par, but that you had a more satisfying time with previous partners. In all honesty, for a guy, thats probably one of the worst things they could ever imagine hearing.


I think your getting the response your getting from him because your reasons for not circ'ing have put him on defense. Defense of his beliefs on the male body, and defense of his body and being able to be a good (sexual) lover.
If he agrees to not circ because of your arguments, the only emotional place he has left to go, is where he admits he has been victimized, and has to say there is something wrong with his body.
.

And yet, you argue with me every single time I post a link that says, essentially, THE EXACT SAME THING that you're saying here.
post #33 of 77
Even if she divorces him, any court will give him visitation, and, during the visitation, he has every opportunity to circumcise the baby.
You also can't take your child out of the country without the father's permission - AFTER the child is born. When you're pregnant, you can go wherever you like... just a thought.
post #34 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by Haselnuss View Post
Even if she divorces him, any court will give him visitation, and, during the visitation, he has every opportunity to circumcise the baby.
You also can't take your child out of the country without the father's permission - AFTER the child is born. When you're pregnant, you can go wherever you like... just a thought.
He has threatened to have a surgical procedure against her will. I would think she could get an order of protection against the procedure. If she got a lawyer and I totally would do that.
post #35 of 77
Get a marker and write on baby's skin under his diaper "No circ!"
That should do it!
post #36 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by NaturalMindedMomma View Post
So she needs to do all the work, save the family and make better arguments to save him from EMOTIONAL PAIN?? Are you JOKING? HE is causing major stress and emotional pain to the OP and their unborn child.

He needs to get over himself. If my breasts were flawed and I could not feed my child, I would not have the same flaw done surgically to my daughter to make her like me. HE can't admit his anatomy is flawed and it IS. THATS LIFE! It doesn't work properly and it HURTS females in result. So we should stroke their egos so they don't hurt our children behind our back? HE IS AN ADULT. HE IS AN IGNORANT PERSON. HIS EMOTIONAL PAIN IS A RESULT OF HIS OWN IGNORANT ACTIONS. He is being presented with information and ignoring it ALL because he is insecure about his penis. When you have children, it's not about you anymore.
And that last statement in bold is exactly my point. This is not about him, and what he wants, BUT its also not just what the mother wants either.In the end her position is right because it allows the child the most free-will and control over his own body.
But you do not understand is he probably feels like there is nothing wrong with his penis. So saying so, is only going to sound insulting, and is not going to resolve anything. She does not have to do "all the work" she just has to do a good job of explaining her points, and obviously so far she hasn't.

This is a marriage they have going here, and what comes along with that is discussion. Any parent (or partner in marriage) who comes into a problem and says "its my way or the highway" is acting destructively. No matter how right they may be. As a partner you have the RESPONSIBILITY to explain your points, especially when it comes to something thats important. Shutting your ears and walking away because things do not get resolved in the first discussion is not an option.

Now its true such an action would be easier. The task of discussion, explanation, and understanding do involve work, but often they are a required part of partnership. If thats something you personally are unwilling to take part in, then a sperm bank may be a better bet for you. But the OP is trying to have an adult discussion with her DH and up until now they have not found a way of connecting on this subject. And I hope (besides the legal "just in case advise") we can provide advice that can help her reach her goal.
post #37 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by fruitful womb View Post
Take this form and have it signed by a Lawyer. arclaw might help you with the signatures.
...

Make sure you get the signatures of your baby's doctor and your doctor. All of whom will see the both of you.
Above looks like a pretty good option. She has until August to educate her husband on the benefits of intactness for the baby...
post #38 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by A&A View Post
And yet, you argue with me every single time I post a link that says, essentially, THE EXACT SAME THING that you're saying here.
Nope, your link makes the point that deep down inside most circed guys believe their penis is broken. And they continue circing because then they dont have to admit their feelings about their penis.

I totally disagree. As a circed guy against infant circ, and one who has talked to a lot of guys on this subject, I can tell you most circed guys dont look at themselves this way. And this "inside perspective of a circed guy" article is written by a guy thats fully intact!

The difference here is I am making the point that you tell anyone their body is sub-par, they will get defensive with you.

There is no reason to make this discussion harder then it needs to be.

Say if I wanted my future wife to breast feed, yet she did not want to. I could say "well, you should breast feed, because in society women are just baby makers, and that its your responsibility. You have the body parts, so now go do it!"
Such a response would make breast feeding seem like something that further takes away her identity as a person. And using such reasoning would probably push her farther away from the idea entirely.

Or I could make it a lot easier and just say " Breast milk is the best for the baby" and make an argument from that point of view. And in the end she would probably be much more receptive.
post #39 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by Haselnuss View Post
Even if she divorces him, any court will give him visitation, and, during the visitation, he has every opportunity to circumcise the baby.
.
But it may make him realize how serious she is (and the situation is) when she says she'll divorce him over it.
post #40 of 77
OP, I am so sorry you are having to deal with this emotionally draining situation. I'm not in your shoes so I can't say with certainty what I would do to be honest. From your explanation of his stance, it sounds to me as if this can't be the only circumstance where there is turmoil in your marriage.

Hugs. Let's hope for a girl.

I know that doesn't solve anything but frankly I don't think the rest of the rhetoric will either. Again, hugs.
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