Need help, dh threatening to have it done to babe... - Page 3

[Quickbeam]

I have been thinking about you and your situation all day. I feel the way that Quirky feels, but I think Greg offered the best strategy (for now).

What concerns me is the willingness on DH's part to violate your trust and sneak around you to accomplish his will. Is he speaking in the heat of the moment or is he a person who would do such a thing? Only you can answer that question.

Just for full disclosure of bias, I would never divorce my husband; our marriage is a Sacrament. But I would protect my children from him if I felt I had to, and I would separate from him indefinitely if he persisted in deceiving me and abusing our children.

I adamantly hope the best for you and your baby and your family.

[MCatLvrMom2A&X]

Even with an order of protection he could take the baby to almost any pediatritions office and have the proceedure done since that office will have no knowledge of that protection and what has been going on.

I agree it might make him see how serious you are but it will in no way gaurentee that your ds will be protected

I hope that you are able to get through to him in the next few months

[plunky]

Originally Posted by mi.birthdoula

The thing that completely blows my mind is that (this is going to get into some sexual topics) dh knows that I have a hard time being completely satisfied with him all the time and he is constantly complaining about it. When we were discussing the circe issue, I brought up (in a very gentle and caring way) that I had been with an intact man before, and it is very different for not only the man but also the woman. I don't want to take away my sons' and future partners full pleasure just so my dh is happy.

I can't imagine being with a woman that was not sexually compatible with me. I am circumcised and my wife does not have this problem. Blaming this problem on your DH being circ'd is an enormous logical jump when there are so many other factors that could be the problem. He cannot fix that he is circ'd. You are putting him in a very defensive place by doing this.

[plunky]

Originally Posted by perspective

But you do not understand is he probably feels like there is nothing wrong with his penis. So saying so, is only going to sound insulting, and is not going to resolve anything. She does not have to do "all the work" she just has to do a good job of explaining her points, and obviously so far she hasn't.

This is a very good way of saying what I try to say on this board from time to time. There is nothing wrong with my penis. It functions properly. But the act of cutting it was wrong and unnecessary.

[mi.birthdoula]

I thank everyone for your advice. Here is a little more information...

I have shown him the Penn & teller video, and I only resorted to the sexual topic as a last resort when he was getting very beligerent & degrading to me. I do not blame the whole issue of me not being completely satisfied all the time just on the fact that he is circed, there is a lot more to it, and I have pointed it out to him (ex, him just not that into relations to begin with.) I am satisfied with him a lot of the time, just not always and he knows this. I have rebutted every argument that he makes with information and facts.

I'm not too worried about him doing it after we leave the hospital.

Also, I really do love him, and as a previous poster stated marriage is a Sacrement. After having a very deep discussion with him over the weekend about other topics, I have learned there was a lot more going on with him mentally...He has been on holiday from work since Dec, and was slated to return to work today, however he received the call that he was laid off the same day we started disscussing the circ issue. He said that he shouldn't have kept it from me, and that he also should not have taken it out on me and the topic like he did. Now that I know exactly what was going on that day, I feel like we just had a bad start to discussing it. We have decided to table the issue for a few weeks, and then revisit it, and go over all the information together. I really do believe that he will come around. He even said that he was on the defensive because if we had a son and choose to leave him intact, that he would feel terrrible about having his son (my stepson) circ'd. I told him I understand, and we can work through the emotions together to get to the best decision for our son and family.



again, thank you to everyone for all the info and support!

[peainthepod]

He sounds like a reasonable man and I'm glad he was able to admit that there was more going on than just an adamant refusal to hear your side of the argument. I think if you just ask him to show you one single medical organization that recommends routine circumcision on male babies, he might be surprised. There is simply no medical reason to do it, and it's really hard to advocate for a painful cosmetic procedure to be done on a helpless baby without some sort of medical justification.



ETA: There's no medical reason to do it routinely; obviously, it can be necessitated by certain medical conditions.

[Cheshire]

That is great news!!! As for his first son it depends on a couple of things. First, will he even notice that his half-brother is intact. If he does notice a difference and he asks about it how old is he at the time. If he is younger I'd just state the fact that he wasn't circ'd after he was born. If he asks more questions DH can say that you and he decided together not to have it done.

If first son asks when he is older why he was circ'd and half-brother wasn't DH can tell him "when you know better you do better. When you were born we thought it was the best decision for you and when half-brother was born we thought not circ'ing was the best decision for him." He does not have to defend his actions to his first son. He can say that he wishes he had more info when he was born but he made the best decision at the time. (granted, he probably could have found the info if he had done a little research but he doesn't have to get into all that - what's done is done and if first son wants to restore then you can talk to him about it when he's older).

And, I'm really sorry to hear about your DH losing his job. Best wishes to you guys.

[littlemizflava]

i would contune the quest to change his mind. would write a letter saying if my child is circ i will sue give it to the hospital when you are booking and the dr at first visit. if at the birth you keep saying no circ no circ and you still have fears if it was me i would write on my son no circ with permanent marker. i really would and would do the same with the cloth diapers i would write on them. they have to take it off before and if it is on his skin they cant say they didnt see it. yes at all cost.

[Fellow Traveler]

Sound's like you got to the bottom of this and know where to go from here. I bet he is a great reasonable guy. I think a little at a time will work for you. Keep in mind that what was done before isn't relevant. Tell him it a when you know better you do better situation. Though perhaps you might want to couch that differently.

[Erinz]

What a great update! Made me glad to read it

[KBecks]

I'm so happy that you have had a better conversation with him and I wish you the best as you two move forward. A lot of guys talk a big game and will issue emotional comments like that when they have no intention of actually backing it up with whatever action.

I hope you have a wonderful pregnancy and that it all works out for you! It is not his fault that he is circed, so have compassion for him and realize you don't need him to be against circ, he just needs to feel OK with having an intact son. That's an easier place for him to get to.

Best wishes!! I am sorry about the work stress your DH is going through, that can be extremely difficult and a huge burden to a man's ego, especially when thinking about providing for a new baby. It is very, very difficult. My husband has been through layoffs twice and it truly sucks when it's happening. Hang in there, be supportive, and in the end be strong about keeping your son intact.

Definitely let the hospital, your OB and your pediatricians know your wishes in advance.

[NaturalMindedMomma]

Originally Posted by plunky

This is a very good way of saying what I try to say on this board from time to time. There is nothing wrong with my penis. It functions properly. But the act of cutting it was wrong and unnecessary.

Yes, there is dear. An intact penis functions properly, a circed one is missing important components that inhibit it's true capabilities. Ignoring this makes you much less of an intactivist. There are facts to SUPPORT this and you are ignoring them. They are important to convincing the appropriate people that there is no reason to circ. Your penis is ok because you know no different. Your wife not having the problem does not indicate that it doesn't exist. Just because one person out of MILLIONS of others doesn't experience something doesn't make it not true. Also there have been studies that show FUTURE damage to the female genatalia as well. It was posted here and removed because it showed sexual intercourse and was considered pornography.

[NaturalMindedMomma]

Originally Posted by perspective

And that last statement in bold is exactly my point. This is not about him, and what he wants, BUT its also not just what the mother wants either.In the end her position is right because it allows the child the most free-will and control over his own body.
But you do not understand is he probably feels like there is nothing wrong with his penis. So saying so, is only going to sound insulting, and is not going to resolve anything. She does not have to do "all the work" she just has to do a good job of explaining her points, and obviously so far she hasn't.

This is a marriage they have going here, and what comes along with that is discussion. Any parent (or partner in marriage) who comes into a problem and says "its my way or the highway" is acting destructively. No matter how right they may be. As a partner you have the RESPONSIBILITY to explain your points, especially when it comes to something thats important. Shutting your ears and walking away because things do not get resolved in the first discussion is not an option.

Now its true such an action would be easier. The task of discussion, explanation, and understanding do involve work, but often they are a required part of partnership. If thats something you personally are unwilling to take part in, then a sperm bank may be a better bet for you. But the OP is trying to have an adult discussion with her DH and up until now they have not found a way of connecting on this subject. And I hope (besides the legal "just in case advise") we can provide advice that can help her reach her goal.

Um he has not effectively gotten his point across either.

I was not saying that your argument was in totality wrong. I wanted to make that clear. She HAS discussed it with him and while a man who is circed may be offended by her reasoning, it is HER REASONING and good reasoning at that. If he is offended, that is something he needs to get over for the better of his son.

She is talking, but in the end, if the man I was married to would not agree, I would divorce him to take all routes to protect my baby. Saying my way or the highway is destructive for who, in this case, not my sons genitalia and that is my goal! Not to help my partner get over his issue, ulitmately.

Are your comments about a sperm bank towards me individually? I have a DF who is the father of my child. He is someone I am extremely compatible with and made sure before I made the decision to even date him. We discussed my parenting and beliefs and with some informative conversations, he agreed with me on everything. I believe in the sanctity of marriage. But I believe more in the protection of the children that came from my body. Mutilating them is wrong and I will protect them against it. Just the same if he was abusing them in some other way. I do have wonderful intelligent conversations with my DF, we do from time to time disagree on things and we communicate effectively to resolve conflict. But if it came down to it, I would do whatever I had to to protect my son. If that makes me less of a wife and more of a mother, I AM FREAKING PROUD!

[1littlebit]

well its good that he is willing to continue the discussion. so he doesn't want to leave your son intact b/c he would then feel horrible for circing your stepson? does he actually think that circing your son would make circing your stepson somehow less horrible? i doubt it. which is good b/c that probably means he will come around. i would still take precautions though... better safe then sorry.

[3pink1blue]

I had my son at a large hospital in Michigan, and my DH and I had to be on the same page about everything. For example, the Hep B shot. We declined it, but in order to decline, they needed both signatures. On the circumcision form (which I never saw beforehand but was in our chart with big red REFUSED on it) there were also spaces for both parents to sign.

So, if you happen to be delivering in the gigantic hospital complex in Grand Rapids, you know they won't do it with just dad's consent. They need both.

Good luck, and congrats on your upcoming addition!

[becoming]

My DH wanted our littlest babe circumcised, but I absolutely refused. I can't imagine him threatening to do it against my wishes. That would probably be grounds for divorce, honestly. It's basically saying he doesn't care what you want for your own child. When raising a child together, tons of issues are bound to come up that you guys disagree on--is he going to insist on having his way every single time, even if he has to do things behind your back?

[lizziejackie]

Originally Posted by TeresaZofia

See if you can consult a lawyer. I'd let your husband and pediatrician know that you would be planning on taking legal action against them if your ds is circ'd without your consent.

That's what I did. Wrote the hospital, well in advance, that I personally would take legal action against it if Grant was circ'd w/out my consent. Asked for that to be put in the file (it was). That makes the hospital pay attention.

As for after the baby was born...I hadn't really thought about that, but it takes more work to get them taken in, etc., so I knew the DH probably didn't have that in him. If I were you, I'd also write all your peditricians, urologists, etc., everyplace that he could possibly take the baby.

You have my thoughts and hugs. I was in your spot 2.5 years ago and it's very stressful. I know it's an awful position to be in.

[mi.birthdoula]

Just an update...dh and I talked last night after having an ultrasound, and we will not be circing. It was decided together, so I know that he is now with me on this. I let him hear (I read aloud) all the info that ACOG, AAP, and many other organizations gave on the topic, and let him know that I would like to at least let the child make his own decision when he was of legal age. In so letting him know that there was no reason why I would degrade my son if that was what HE choose, but I do not think the decision to permanetly change a person for cosmetic reasons without their consent is either of ours to make. He was very level headed about the whole thing, and agreed completely after actually listening and contemplating the risks' and benefits'. If our son chooses (at a time that he is able to understand the total ramifications of the procedure) to go ahead with it, we will be there to support HIS decisions whatever they may be.

[ZoshaMosha]

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[~Boudicca~]

Originally Posted by mi.birthdoula

Just an update...dh and I talked last night after having an ultrasound, and we will not be circing. It was decided together, so I know that he is now with me on this. I let him hear (I read aloud) all the info that ACOG, AAP, and many other organizations gave on the topic, and let him know that I would like to at least let the child make his own decision when he was of legal age. In so letting him know that there was no reason why I would degrade my son if that was what HE choose, but I do not think the decision to permanetly change a person for cosmetic reasons without their consent is either of ours to make. He was very level headed about the whole thing, and agreed completely after actually listening and contemplating the risks' and benefits'. If our son chooses (at a time that he is able to understand the total ramifications of the procedure) to go ahead with it, we will be there to support HIS decisions whatever they may be.

Whew!

Glad everything turned out ok.

And call me paranoid...but I would still make sure that you write all over the place on your birth plan that there will be no circumcision without your consent.