My 4 year old won't stop pooping himself.

[Dillpicklechip]

My husband and I are absolutely at our wit's end with our 4 year old son and I'm posting here just in the hopes that someone might have some advice.

He has been peeing on the toilet like a pro since he turned 3. He has never, not once, wet the bed at night. He even gets up in the middle of the night to pee. I can't remember the last time he wet himself.

But pooping...he has only gone on the toilet a handful of times, and he just turned FOUR last month. He poops right in his underwear every day. Usually four or five times per day. I'm not kidding!

I have a feeling this has to do with wanting attention--ever since he was a baby he's been really attention hungry. No matter how much time I spend with him, he always wants more. And we had a new baby last summer, so I believe he wants to take me away from the baby and take care of him.

So lucky me, many times every day I have to clean up his poopy pants, often give him a bath too. I AM SO SICK OF DOING THIS. Our house always smells like poop, because sometimes when I am not looking he tries to clean it up himself and ends up smearing poop all over the fricking bathroom. I can't keep up with the cleaning, seriously. It wouldn't be so bad if he just did this once per day, but it is many times per day.

Just this morning he woke my husband and I up by coming into our room early in the morning smelling like poop, and he had some on his hands and then wiped it right on our sheets!

And he leaves little pieces of dried poop lying around the house...I am not kidding! It's like he wants us to always be "reminded" of him in this way!

As I said, we are at our wit's end. We have tried everything we can think of. We have punished him (once he turned 4) for doing this. We have offered all kinds of wonderful incentives for going on the toilet. Even relatives have offered him toys if he will go on the toilet. We have discussed this with him, oh about a million times, and he understands perfectly, and he always promises that next time he'll use the toilet, and then half an hour later I realize he stinks again.

I am starting to majorly stress out about this. He just WILL NOT use the toilet. He is four years old! If we didn't homeschool, he would be in JK right now...I can only imagine how that would go.

This afternoon I was sitting in my room nursing the baby, and while I was doing that my son pooped himself, then tried to clean up his underwear in the toilet. He managed to smear poop EVERYWHERE, then brought the sopping underwear into my room and put them in the laundry basket so then my room stank. When I put the baby down to sleep and saw the disaster of the bathroom, I burst into tears! Because I had already cleaned a similar mess that morning.

I can't take this anymore! I really, really can't! My son is a very intelligent boy. I know he is doing this on purpose, and I hate that there doesn't seem to be anything I can do about it. My stomach is totally in knots just thinking about it.

I try my best to spend as much time with him as possible, to encourage him, and show him love, but everything I do is not good enough.

Thanks for reading...sorry this was so long.

[notjustmamie]

Have you considered putting him back in diapers?

Also, has he always pooped 4-5 times a day? That seems like a lot to me. My DD (almost 4) only poops 1-2 times a day. If his diet is such that he's pooping so often, maybe there is some change that can be made there? It wouldn't necessarily eliminate the problem (no pun intended), but at least it would cut down on the amount of clean up.

No other suggestions, just more s. This is definitely a tough place to be.

[tinyblackdot]

Poor baby!

I would second the suggestion of a diet change. I dont think that any child would purposely poop his pants, and the fact that he is trying to clean it up himself supports that.

Have you talked to his Dr about it? Does he have any other issues medically or developmentally? Was he doing it before you lo was born?

Do you ever catch him doing it? I know with my dd i know when she is about to poop, and i can always get her to the bathroom. If he isnt trying to poop, and it is just happening 3 or 4 times a day, i would say that it very well could be a medical issue. I would highly suggest an elimination diet and see if that makes a different, and i would take him to a chiropractor.

Is his diet rich in fats and oils? Maybe you should try giving him more grains and less meat and veggies?

Have you tried giving him distinct potty times throughout the day? Or maybe a $0.25 reward each time he poops in the potty, and the take him to the dollar store at the end of the week....

So sorry!

(btw nice quote in your siggy!)

[Dillpicklechip]

Thanks for the advice.

Originally Posted by notjustmamie

Have you considered putting him back in diapers?

Also, has he always pooped 4-5 times a day? That seems like a lot to me. My DD (almost 4) only poops 1-2 times a day. If his diet is such that he's pooping so often, maybe there is some change that can be made there? It wouldn't necessarily eliminate the problem (no pun intended), but at least it would cut down on the amount of clean up.

No other suggestions, just more s. This is definitely a tough place to be.

I suppose I could put him back in diapers, but it doesn't seem like a good solution when I know he can go on the toilet..he has before (as I said only a few times), I don't understand why he prefers to have poop in his pants.

His 4-5 poops per day are small ones. The times when he did go on the toilet he had a nice big one (sorry for the tmi!). This is why I suspect he is doing it to get attention--it seems like he just poops a little bit on purpose and then holds the rest till later so he can get a reaction from me all over again. (Oh, btw, I've tried not reacting and it doesn't change anything).

Originally Posted by tinyblackdot

Poor baby!

I would second the suggestion of a diet change. I dont think that any child would purposely poop his pants, and the fact that he is trying to clean it up himself supports that.

Have you talked to his Dr about it? Does he have any other issues medically or developmentally? Was he doing it before you lo was born?

Do you ever catch him doing it? I know with my dd i know when she is about to poop, and i can always get her to the bathroom. If he isnt trying to poop, and it is just happening 3 or 4 times a day, i would say that it very well could be a medical issue. I would highly suggest an elimination diet and see if that makes a different, and i would take him to a chiropractor.

Is his diet rich in fats and oils? Maybe you should try giving him more grains and less meat and veggies?

Have you tried giving him distinct potty times throughout the day? Or maybe a $0.25 reward each time he poops in the potty, and the take him to the dollar store at the end of the week....

So sorry!

(btw nice quote in your siggy!)

No, I haven't talked to his Dr. about it. I am not sure what a doctor could say. No, he did not always do this. When he was younger (like 2) he was constipated a lot and sometimes went a day or two without going. But he doesn't seem constipated now by any means. He doesn't have any other health issues.

He eats mostly grains already.

Distinct potty times is something I haven't tried. I'll give it a shot.

(Hey Melanie, that's my mother's name!)

[tinyblackdot]

Originally Posted by Dillpicklechip

Thanks for the advice.



I suppose I could put him back in diapers, but it doesn't seem like a good solution when I know he can go on the toilet..he has before (as I said only a few times), I don't understand why he prefers to have poop in his pants.

His 4-5 poops per day are small ones. The times when he did go on the toilet he had a nice big one (sorry for the tmi!). This is why I suspect he is doing it to get attention--it seems like he just poops a little bit on purpose and then holds the rest till later so he can get a reaction from me all over again. (Oh, btw, I've tried not reacting and it doesn't change anything).



No, I haven't talked to his Dr. about it. I am not sure what a doctor could say. No, he did not always do this. When he was younger (like 2) he was constipated a lot and sometimes went a day or two without going. But he doesn't seem constipated now by any means. He doesn't have any other health issues.

He eats mostly grains already.

Distinct potty times is something I haven't tried. I'll give it a shot.

(Hey Melanie, that's my mother's name!)

Weird! (the quote and the name lol)

Ok so if he used to have constipation issues and is now pooping 4 times a day, i would try cutting out all dairy and milk and see waht happens. DD has milk issues, and she is either constipated or the opposite.

Also i would go ahead and talk to the dr. Your LO could be doing it because he might not have control of it. It could be Crones or some other issue, esspecialy if he had GI issues before! Best of luck!

[notjustmamie]

Originally Posted by tinyblackdot

Also i would go ahead and talk to the dr. Your LO could be doing it because he might not have control of it. It could be Crones or some other issue, esspecialy if he had GI issues before! Best of luck!

: It would be a good idea to rule out any physical causes before trying to deal with possible emotional ones.

How articulate is your son? I'm wondering if sitting down with him to explain how difficult this situation is for your family and asking for his help in finding a solution would be helpful.

[lexbeach]

I doubt that he is doing this for attention. To me it sounds like classic symptoms of being afraid to poop at all (either for fear of it hurting--if he has dealt with constipation before) or being afraid to poop on the toilet (as many children are). The frequent small poops are a sign of someone who is trying to hold his poop in, but it is escaping in small amounts. I would start by explaining that pooping in his underwear is simply not acceptable, but I would DROP the suggestion that he poop in the toilet. Instead, I'd offer him some disposable pull-ups (not usually something I'd recommend, but this seems like the one time they have a purpose), and let him know that anytime he has to poop, he can go put on a pull-up and poop in that. When he's done, he should let you know so that you can help him to get cleaned up.

After this is going well, and your ds is pooping only once or twice a day and reliably telling you about it, then you can start working on the transition to the toilet.

The first day, you may need to devote your day to staying in the same room with your ds so that you can be aware of when he needs to poop and help him get a pull-up on in time.

I would try your hardest to see this as a symptom of your ds' fear and not as a deliberate attention-seeking behavior. No matter what, respond with compassion rather than anger.

HTH!

Lex

[Bluegoat]

My daughter refused to poop in the toilet after she was peeing in it like a pro. And I could tell she knew when it was coming, because she would go hide in a corner so..this sounds awful, but I promised her a cake if she did it in the toilet. She talked about it for a week before she did it, but then she went in the toilet and she was VERY excited about the cake.

I ended up having to get one other cake after that, but it seemed to be a real breakthrough for her, after that it was pretty easy. I think she needed an external motivator, she couldn't see any benefit to the toilet, but once she tried it a few times she liked being clean.

Five times a day is a lot, but I don't think it's really abnormal.

[Ashersmum]

I agree with lexbeach. I'm so sorry you're going through this I know how stressful it is. My 4 y/o withholds his poop and has a huge fear of sitting on the potty. He will avoid it all costs. We kept him in diapers for the longest time and then I'd had enough. He was even trying to withhold with diapers on.
If your son is going several times a day in his pants, I very much doubt that it is on purpose. He probably has a condition called encopresis where the stool gets so backed up from withholding that leakage happens. I would take him to a doctor to see what he recommends.
I know that Miralax is not a popular medication around here but i have to use this for my son daily so that he cannot withhold and has to go and use the potty. Even on that he will only go once every 2 to 3 days. It's been a life saver for us . Literally.

[Dillpicklechip]

Thanks.

Lex, you are absolutely right that I should not respond with anger! I can't lie, I have lost my temper with him in the past but I'm trying so hard to be calm and loving about this. That's why I came here to vent!

Ashersmum, this morning I was doing some online research and I came across the term encopresis which you mentioned. I think this is definitely a possibility because the article I was reading mentioned many small poops.

It looks like I was wrong about this after all and now I feel terrible that I did not take him to the doctor sooner.

Thanks again everyone for helping me figure this out.

[transformed]

Hugs OP. I responded without finishing the thread. You are an awesome mommy.

[OakBerry]

I totally agree with Lexbeach too.
My son held his poop for about 6 months after he was peeing on the toilet.
He was afraid.
I used the techniques Lex descibed (I actually put him in pullups full time, and stopped asking him to use the toilet or potty. I told him to poop in the pullup, then come and GET ME to help him change it).
It took about 5 weeks of this before he was ready to try the toilet.

[shelbean91]

My ds2 is 4.5 and just started using the potty for pee or poop since this past Oct/Nov. He'd pee, but not poop, on the potty. I finally said he could wear underwear all day as long as he told me when he had to poop and I'd let him have a pull up for that. I don't know why, but he was very afraid of letting go. We went on like that for a while- maybe a month. One morning, he was naked- I had just gotten out of the shower and he had to poop, bad. I wasn't going to get him to the pull ups in time, so I plopped him on the toilet and said 'go'. He was a little runny, but he did it. After that, he would go, but only if he had a 'shoulder' to lean on. Yes, dh or I wouldhave to sit in front of him and let him bury his head in our shoulder before he'd go. Over thanksgiving, we went out of town and where he had been wearing undies all day/pullups at night, the 4 days we were gone, he went bck in pullups b/c he couldn't handle the stress. It's been only a week since he's been wearing undies full time.

Not sure if this will help you, but once I gave him permission to use a pull up to poop, things seemed to go much smoother for us.

I understand the anger and frustration. Hang in there. It will happen.

[gingerstar]

Originally Posted by Ashersmum

I agree with lexbeach. I'm so sorry you're going through this I know how stressful it is. My 4 y/o withholds his poop and has a huge fear of sitting on the potty. He will avoid it all costs. We kept him in diapers for the longest time and then I'd had enough. He was even trying to withhold with diapers on.
If your son is going several times a day in his pants, I very much doubt that it is on purpose. He probably has a condition called encopresis where the stool gets so backed up from withholding that leakage happens. I would take him to a doctor to see what he recommends.
I know that Miralax is not a popular medication around here but i have to use this for my son daily so that he cannot withhold and has to go and use the potty. Even on that he will only go once every 2 to 3 days. It's been a life saver for us . Literally.

Laura, it sounds like you have gotten the answer you need, but I wanted to second this. My DD had some trouble with pooping her pants after being PL and my NP explained to me that sometimes, they can get so used to holding it that they actually forget the feeling that tells them they need to go. We used Miralax for a short time, a few months, at a much smaller dose than the package says, and weaning off it gradually, and it solved our problem. Miralax is not like other laxatives - the body does not grow dependent on it, unlike others, so it is not a problem to use with kids, which is why it was made OTC.
Definitely talk with your son's ped about this - I feel sure you can solve it! Then you will all be happier.
Best wishes
Sharon

[MumOf3Boys]

I have been a 'looker' of this topic for 13 months for my son Caden... and now that I finally have found a cure for him : I absolutely had to pass it on!!! This is my first post on any forum EVER- and sorry it's gonna be long.

Just like you, I tried EVERYTHING... I tried being patient and kind, offering rewards, toys, snacks, special outings... and then I tried the flip side - getting mad, punishing, taking things away, making him clean it himself, putting him in showers after (which he is petrified of) and many others.
Last week I was once again googling the topic and found some advice on a website (I think from about 3 years ago) from a father that he got from his doctor that worked for him so I decided to try it. I started 1 week ago today and Caden has not pooped in his pants in 3 days. He now goes on his own on the toilet without even telling me.

Have child sit on toilet for 10 minutes after every meal. Tell him he is only allowed to get off after 10 minutes or if he poos. Stick to this one - it's crucial.
Make a chart together. Divide paper into six squares. Hang it on wall above toilet. Cut out 6 stars from seperate paper (sized to fit into the squares) and leave them in a large ziploc bag hanging beside the chart. I used two-way tape to attach velcro to the backs of the stars and the centre of each square so they were fun for Caden to stick on.
Have son pick 7 special treats they would like for rewards. Ours were sleep in Mommy and Daddy's bed, stay up 15 minutes later than brothers, eat dessert before dinner... you get the idea. Put them in the bag.
2 stars available each day. If child has no poop accidents from morning till after lundh - he gets a star. If he has no accidents from lunch till bedtime gets another. When stars are full he gets to pick his special treat (which then goes in garbage). Then it starts all over again.
Don't get upset if he poops. Have him clean it (as much as possible) and then carry on. Do not put him in diapers!!! I bought a little bag of chocolate hearts that sits beside toilet and if he did poo at all in the toilet he got a chocolate as reward.
Good luck, hope it helps.

[hedgewitch]

Have you checked into a diagnosis of encopresis? We are dealing with this with our son at the moment. Like yours he will constantly soil his underwear but the condition makes it impossible for them not to. Here is a really good explanation of the condition, have a good read and see if any of it sounds familiar.

Part of the treatment recommendations does include having your child sit on the toilet for 5-10 mins after meals as this will encourage their body to poo on the toilet. But most of the soiling happens without them even being aware, it is forced out because the bowel is compacted. There are various ways it can be treated, we seem to be currently working our way through all of them. We've started with natural therapies but are now resorting to 'gentle' laxatives to try to get his system cleared out.

Anyway I thought I'd chip in as this condition will lead to all of the issues you are describing. Good luck.

[LionTigerBear]

That must be so frustrating.

For our son, grains were the problem. We put him on the Specific Carbohydrate Diet (SCD) which is grain-free, and he potty-trained himself with total ease pretty much overnight within the first couple weeks of the diet. Also, he started sleeping soundly all night, among other positive side-effects.

Good luck!

[KD's Momma]

I could have written this exact post about DS#1! He started peeing in the potty right after he turned 3 and never had an accident. Pooping was another matter all together. He pooped in his pants everyday! Sometimes multiple times a day! It drove me crazy. I did everything I could think of to make him go in the potty - nothing worked. He just had to make up his mind that he was going to do it. He is very strong willed and will only do what he wants, when he wants! Finally, I decided that I wouldn't let it bother me any more. I told him that it was his decision and that if he decided to poop on himself he would need to clean it up in his bathroom. He would need to run water - it would have to be cold so he wouldn't get burned - take his pants off and put them in a plastic bag (like a target bag) that I had left in the bathroom, get in the tub (yes he would fuss about it being cold - kinda the idea) and clean himself up. He was not allowed to get out of the tub till I told him he was clean and then he could put new clothes on and go about his day. I never yelled or screamed or cried or laughed or anything - totally emotionless. I started this after his 4th birth day. It took a couple of months - yes months, I told you he was strong willed - but he finally decided that it wasn't worth the trouble and he would poop in the potty. Once, he started pooping in the potty he only had a handful of accidents - which were cleaned up in the cold bath also. He is almost 5 now and we never have an accident. good luck

[FoxintheSnow]

7 months ago or so(ds is about to turn 5) I could have written your post word for word. I read everything and tried everything. Went to the pediatrician and he basically said it's a fear thing that Ive turned into a battle of wills. I kept ds in underwear and reminded him that poop goes in the potty. If he had an accident, I had him be an active participant in clean up. He had to help me clean his underwear in the sink and all that. Everyone told me that one day he would just start pooping in the potty but I didnt see it happening.

Well one day something clicked in his head and he started *mostly* going in the potty. He would still get skidmarks from waiting till the last minute, but a major improvement.

After that went on for a few weeks, he started doing it all the potty.

Now he gets skidmarks every once in a blue moon and has an occasional accident.

Hang in there!

[Dillpicklechip]

Thanks so much everyone for your support.

Since I started this thread, my further research led me to believe that encopresis was the problem. We "cleaned him out--" an experience which showed me without a doubt that he had been impacted--but after a few days the problem came back, so I guess we'll just have to be really diligent with keeping things moving.

Originally Posted by hedgewitch

Have you checked into a diagnosis of encopresis? We are dealing with this with our son at the moment. Like yours he will constantly soil his underwear but the condition makes it impossible for them not to. Here is a really good explanation of the condition, have a good read and see if any of it sounds familiar.

Part of the treatment recommendations does include having your child sit on the toilet for 5-10 mins after meals as this will encourage their body to poo on the toilet. But most of the soiling happens without them even being aware, it is forced out because the bowel is compacted. There are various ways it can be treated, we seem to be currently working our way through all of them. We've started with natural therapies but are now resorting to 'gentle' laxatives to try to get his system cleared out.

Anyway I thought I'd chip in as this condition will lead to all of the issues you are describing. Good luck.

Hedgwitch, THANK YOU SO MUCH! That link you put in explained more exactly about encopresis than anything I have read so far. After reading the description of the poops (small, dark and sticky) I know now %100 that this is my son's problem.

The page linked to that page about treatment seems to advocate long term use of laxatives. I don't think I am comfortable with this. The Milk of Magnesia we used before worked very well, but I would not want to give him any laxative on the long term (I have heard about Miralax, though I will look into that). Could you please tell me about the natural therapies you've tried with your son? Did any of them work at all? Now, what gentle laxatives are you using? In the meantime I will try with the sitting on the toilet after every meal.

I am still feeling so guilty over this that for so long we thought it was a behavioural problem, and were scolding and sometimes punishing him for it. Now that I realize it is a physical problem, I am able to have complete patience and understanding, and I can tell that my son is much less stressed out about it. In fact, he doesn't seem to mind that there is always poop in his pants, he's so used to it--but we really need to get this taken care of. The poor little guy can't really play with the other kids in the neighbourhood like this, because they will make fun of him. Good thing he isn't in kindergarten, I can only imagine how embarassing that would be for him.

Anyway, thanks again Hedgewitch! I am so very happy that I can finally understand what's going on with my son, and it's also a comfort to know we are not alone.