another negative editorial about the facebook campaign

[PassionateWriter]

its so sad that even other nursing mothers can not see the disadvantage of hiding under a stairwell. and how beautiful a nursing cover is..maybe for some but it certainly doesnt work for us.

http://www.boston.com/lifestyle/fami...reast_in_show/

[OJazzy1]

It was pretty sad to seeing that editorial. It seems odd to me that it is other mothers, breastfeeding women who will be the ones who are most against reform. That has been the case for years and years, through many women's changes it has been the other women who are most opposed.

[kriket]

hum. I respect her opinion. Sometimes the lactivist movement can be a little 'rabble-rabble' for me. I respect the lactivists too, just not my battle, gotta pick carefully these days! I guess I'm just a fence sitter!

[PassionateWriter]

Originally Posted by OJazzy1

It was pretty sad to seeing that editorial. It seems odd to me that it is other mothers, breastfeeding women who will be the ones who are most against reform. That has been the case for years and years, through many women's changes it has been the other women who are most opposed.

it made me sad also...more than anything. i wanted to be outraged but im not really..just sad...that she feels the need to write an opinion letter that basically puts those of us who are working really really hard at normalizing bf'ing down and make it seem like its all about us.

i personally dont NIP for my benefit...i do it for my children and to hopefully normalize it. i didnt post a bf'ing on facebook during this campaign but i have had pix taken off photobucket before, which is just ridiculous.

i just get tired of the entire perception of mothers who chose to nurse their babies, where ever they may be and w/o hiding and covering. if one feels the need to do that then fine..but i dont think thats what we (as lactivists) are really going for...i would like to see a world where babies are fed, naturally, where ever they may be hungry.

[hkowell1]

From personal experience. while working as a home visitor, many of my clients(low-income families) felt very intimidated by "pushy" breastfeeding women. I've learned that the message can be spread without the focus being on "THE BREAST" the focus needs to be making the relationship between baby and mother comfortable and doable. Don't forget many women are still uncomfortable with their own bodies, looking at someone else isn't going to change that.

[PassionateWriter]

but how is trying to normalize NIP being a "pushy bf'er". i dont get that perception. im definitely a bf'ing and its hard to know me for long without knowing that, but how is that being pushy??

[betsyj]

but how is trying to normalize NIP being a "pushy bf'er". i dont get that perception. im definitely a bf'ing and its hard to know me for long without knowing that, but how is that being pushy??

It becomes pushy when people seem to care more about pushing an agenda then about helping people find their own comfort zone.

Just because a woman chooses to use a Hooter Hoodie or whatever they are calling it now is hardly an indictment of NIP. I go to my car a lot to nurse. That is my choice because I am comfortable doing that. I am not ashamed of my body or my breasts. I am just a private person.

Many women, myself included, have very real thoughts and opinions about modesty. That doesn't make us bad or anti-NIP. I just feel it is something beautiful and private-meant to be shared with my family. My husband is extremely supportive and loves watching us nurse.

i personally dont NIP for my benefit...i do it for my children and to hopefully normalize it.

And that is a great philosophy. But, please remember your vision of what is normal is hardly universal. We all come from different places culturally and religiously. Like it or not for many people the breast is sexual now-that train sadly left the station years ago.

I've learned that the message can be spread without the focus being on "THE BREAST" the focus needs to be making the relationship between baby and mother comfortable and doable

This is so well put. I think teaching nursing works so much better when the emphasis is on the health and nurturing benefits rather then on a "right." Then people do think it is about an agenda.

When I find myself getting very passionate about something in talking with someone who disagrees with me or is skeptical I try to ask myself what I hope to accomplish. Do I want to condemn or convince? If I am trying to convince I tone down my rhetoric and try to meet the person halfway.

[herbanmama]

Originally Posted by hkowell1

I've learned that the message can be spread without the focus being on "THE BREAST" the focus needs to be making the relationship between baby and mother comfortable and doable. Don't forget many women are still uncomfortable with their own bodies, looking at someone else isn't going to change that.

Bolding mine.

But isn't that what normalizing breastfeeding is all about? Making the breastfeeding relationship comfortable and doable for mother and child? Are we loosing sight of the original motivation behind breastfeeding activism? Damn straight I have an agenda. My agenda is to go out and exercise my legal right to nurse my child in public without scornful glances or being asked to cover or step into the restroom. It's not about "THE BREAST" and lactivists are not the ones who are shifting the focus to "THE BREAST". It's the opponents.

And certainly betsyj, the act of nursing can be a beautiful and special moment... but private? Perhaps for you, but I am not going to inconvenience myself, hide in the shadows, stay home when I could be having a tea with my girlfriends, etc. because I have a baby. My babies have to eat. Nature granted me with breasts to feed my babies with, and I'm going to use my breasts for that purpose when and where I please, without apology, and feel no inclination to meet anyone 'halfway' when it is their own cultural conditioning and irrational hang-ups causing the problem.

I'm not 'in your face' about it, nor do I disrobe in public to nurse. I'm a pretty modest person. I have no desire to purposely flash my tits to an entire restaurant, but feel no shame about nursing my babes in public. It has nothing to do with modesty and privacy. It has everything to do with practicality and making the relationship between baby and mother comfortable and doable.

That's what normalization of breastfeeding is about, that's what the facebook protest is about, and frankly, I am quite shocked to see some of these comments on the lactivism board. :

[betsyj]

I'm going to use my breasts for that purpose when and where I please, without apology, and feel no inclination to meet anyone 'halfway' when it is their own cultural conditioning and irrational hang-ups causing the problem.

Calling people irrational causes the message to get lost in the tone.

Nowhere did I suggest we don't have the right to NIP. All I said was that just because some of us don't choose to express ourselves so openly (like the writer of the editorial) is not to say we don't support nursing Moms or the goals of encouraging and respecting bf'ing.

I am quite shocked to see some of these comments on the lactivism board.

As I am a new member I carefully read the Lactivism sticky and my post seems well within the guidelines set forth.

Rather than pointing our fingers at individuals and judging, Lactivists seek to create a systemic change that challenges the general acceptance of formula feeding and guides mothers towards breastfeeding as a cultural norm.

This is my goal. I am just suggesting we all have different roads we travel.

[herbanmama]

I never judged people as irrational, rather the expectation that a woman should do XY or Z in public while nursing in order to satisfy the comfort level of someone who disapproves is irrational.

As for how we choose to exercise 'lactivism', that's an individual thing, which I respect. However, I am still a bit shocked to see the term 'agenda' used in a negative light and statements about how we are the ones putting the emphasis on BREAST rather than mother and child feeding relationship. I wasn't accusing anyone of violation the terms of the forum, just stating a thought.

As for the writer of the commentary, I'm sorry that she feels the need to hide under a stairwell to feed her baby. While it isn't the worst article I have ever read, I certainly don't think she's doing breastfeeding mothers any favors with the "Well, I breastfeed and hide" line, thus normalizing the kind of behavior which causes women to feel that they must hide while in public. Thus, caving to society's conditioning and irrational hang-ups.

I though that this was a safe space to state that disdain towards NIP was irrational.

breastfeeding as a cultural norm

My goal as well. Which is why I don't agree with the article.

[betsyj]

Doing something like nursing in a stairwell based on how others judge you is a crying shame.

I guess I am a shy lactivist.

[Sarah W]

Originally Posted by kriket

hum. I respect her opinion. Sometimes the lactivist movement can be a little 'rabble-rabble' for me. I respect the lactivists too, just not my battle, gotta pick carefully these days! I guess I'm just a fence sitter!

I agree. While I supported the concept of the nurse in, several of the pics were over the top, IMO. I don't think that those pics did the breastfeeding movement any favors.

[SwanMom]

Originally Posted by Sarah W

I agree. While I supported the concept of the nurse in, several of the pics were over the top, IMO. I don't think that those pics did the breastfeeding movement any favors.

I thought so, too.

[annettemarie]

Ahem. The only person who gets to bandy about the rules is me (OK, and my co-mods ).

Seriously, if you have questions about what is or isn't appropriate, please address them to the moderators and not to the members. The Lactivism forum guidelines apply, but so does the User Agreement, another sadly underread document:

Do not post to a thread to take direct issue with a member. If you feel a member has posted or behaved inappropriately in a discussion, communicate directly with the member, moderator or administrator privately and refrain from potentially defaming discussion in a thread.

and

Any user who feels that a posted message is objectionable is encouraged to contact us immediately by email or private message. We will make every effort to remove objectionable messages within a reasonable time frame, if we determine removal is necessary. If you feel another member is behaving in a manner that is in violation of these rules, do not take matters into your own hands. Let us try to resolve the situation. Simply alert the moderator of the forum or the Board Administrator.

Critically thinking about campaigns is absolutely part of lactivism. And while everyone might not agree, everyone deserves to be heard, provided they're playing by the rules.

[herbanmama]

I'd just like to say that I was merely stating my surprise at some of the comments. It wasn't an indictment against any particular member and expressing my 'shock' was not in any way bandying about the UA or forum guidelines.

I'm sorry if anyone felt I was targeting them. I was simply disagreeing with some of the statements in what I thought was a respectful manner.

:

[rparker]

But elevating nursing to some exalted status doesn't seem so healthy, either, and that seems to be the danger in that flood of profile pics. Nursing gets equated with motherhood itself, and that doesn't do new mothers any favors. I know women who couldn't nurse, for a range of physical reasons, and were berated in public by strangers. I know women who have nursed through great hardship or pain, too guilt-ridden to switch to formula. Nursing is great, I've wanted to tell them, but there's plenty more to parenting than how you feed your kid. That's another message I wouldn't mind seeing on Facebook.

(emphasis mine)

How does normalizing breastfeeding (i.e. equating it "with motherhood itself") not "do new mothers any favors"? I feel that nursing in public and helping to make nursing not obscene is one of the biggest "favors" that we can do for future mothers, our own daughters included. And women wouldn't have to nurse "through great hardship or pain" (or at least not as often) if writers like this one weren't so quick to spread cultural myths about bf-ing which prevent new mothers from realizing that a normal bf-ing relationship isn't supposed to hurt... if women think that it's normal for bf-ing to hurt, then they're less likely to seek out help when they run into totally correctable problems. Articles like this make me so sad.

[PassionateWriter]

Originally Posted by betsyj

It becomes pushy when people seem to care more about pushing an agenda then about helping people find their own comfort zone.

Just because a woman chooses to use a Hooter Hoodie or whatever they are calling it now is hardly an indictment of NIP.

And that is a great philosophy. But, please remember your vision of what is normal is hardly universal. We all come from different places culturally and religiously. Like it or not for many people the breast is sexual now-that train sadly left the station years ago.

When I find myself getting very passionate about something in talking with someone who disagrees with me or is skeptical I try to ask myself what I hope to accomplish. Do I want to condemn or convince? If I am trying to convince I tone down my rhetoric and try to meet the person halfway.

my agenda (and what i thought was the agenda of this forum) is to help in creating a world where bf'ing is seen and welcomed and not viewed w/ the scorn that accomodates wayy too many people's view of nursing babies and mothers (and toddlers).

i don't deny the breast is sexual. i certainly view my breasts sexually in certain circumstances, but not when nursing my children and for me and many others, that separation is somethign that i strive to encourage and facilitate in nursing mothers.

im not certain about the disagreement. as far as the article is concerned, i have no problem with how this mom nurses. my issue is her motivation behind writing the editorial in such a manner that suggests if the rest of us don't hide under stair wells, that we are being immodest. modesty is not jeopardized by bf'ing. Even in very very modest cultures where heads and most body parts are covered, women still bf. The US appears to be the country w/ the most hang ups on nursing moms and babies.

Originally Posted by herbanmama

I'm not 'in your face' about it, nor do I disrobe in public to nurse. I'm a pretty modest person. I have no desire to purposely flash my tits to an entire restaurant, but feel no shame about nursing my babes in public. It has nothing to do with modesty and privacy. It has everything to do with practicality and making the relationship between baby and mother comfortable and doable.
:

yeh, thats pretty much how i am also. im as discreet as i can be but i dont think that is a goal that we as lactivists really need....what is discretion? one persons discretion is another person's "in your face" if ykwim.

just today, if i had to stop to nurse my baby while i was out running errands, it would have probably taken me sooo much longer and taken time away from my family and children to run and duck somewhere or try to cover up more. I nursed while the baby was in a pouch, walking around several places today, pushing a cart with one hand. My kids dont tend to nurse every 2-3 hours like many kids that are scheduled...they nurse OFTEN, esp. during the day. Stopping to nurse and hide is neither comfortable nor doable in my lifestyle of 4 kids.

Originally Posted by betsyj

Nowhere did I suggest we don't have the right to NIP. All I said was that just because some of us don't choose to express ourselves so openly (like the writer of the editorial) is not to say we don't support nursing Moms or the goals of encouraging and respecting bf'ing.

but writing the editorial in such a manner does suggest to other nursing mothers that they should behave in a similar manner, and that, i believe, is a disservice. I have no problem with how others want to nurse....as long as they are nursing, i am happy. However, suggesting that her level of discretion is the way it should be does many a disservice.

Originally Posted by herbanmama

As for the writer of the commentary, I'm sorry that she feels the need to hide under a stairwell to feed her baby. While it isn't the worst article I have ever read, I certainly don't think she's doing breastfeeding mothers any favors with the "Well, I breastfeed and hide" line, thus normalizing the kind of behavior which causes women to feel that they must hide while in public. Thus, caving to society's conditioning and irrational hang-ups.

I though that this was a safe space to state that disdain towards NIP was irrational.

you said what i tried to say. and yes, disdain towards NIP is exactly what i aim to rid this country of. of course i may not succeed, but if myself and others dont try, then we certainly won't succeed.