"Being yoked to an unbeliever"

[Kyyrah]

Sorry if this is a bit tongue in cheek, but this is kind of a spin-off of the other thread about having a partner of a different faith.

My question is this. If you are already married and have no intention of getting divorced, is it even POSSIBLE to convert to a more orthodox or traditional faith? If your partner is not at all willing to convert WITH you but isn't AGAINST you converting and raising the kids in said faith?

I can't see how it would be possible for a woman to convert to a faith in which the man is supposed to lead the family spiritually or at least take an active part in the faith.

Baby is crying so I can't finish my thoughts but what are your opinions on this?

[Kidzaplenty]

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[Kyyrah]

Just another quick question here to expand on my previous train of thought. In Catholicism (correct me if I'm wrong) if you have sex outside of a sacramental marriage you are sinning. So if you never had that sacramental marriage, would every instance of having sex with your legally wed (but not religiously wed) husband be an occasion of sin? This is how my mother was when I was growing up. She was always "in a state of sin" which caused her a lot of grief but really she wasn't doing anything "wrong" per se. She just shared a bed with her husband who wasn't Catholic... It really hurt our whole family that she was always living this guilt out. I'm sure there was more to it that I didn't know about but still, it was painful to watch.

[DahliaRW]

Can't help you with the Catholic part, no idea.

What I've studied about being unequally yoked pertains to choosing a partner. I don't think it applies if you are already married and convert. In fact, there is a verse that talks about not seeking to put away your spouse if they are an unbeliever. Found it, 1 Corinthians 7.

[momtokimari]

When you mention the husband being the leader in the faith and spirituality of a family, this doesn't pertain to all religions. There are some religions where the mother is responsible for making sure the children are brought up in the faith. I'm not part of any certain church or actual defined religion. I am christian. My husband.... believes in God. But he has (often) voiced his doubts that Jesus is who he says he was/is. Soooo.... that's our issue. And he just isn't going to voice it to our children. My daughter attends church with my dad a couple Sundays a month.

[Arduinna]

Originally Posted by Kyyrah

Just another quick question here to expand on my previous train of thought. In Catholicism (correct me if I'm wrong) if you have sex outside of a sacramental marriage you are sinning. So if you never had that sacramental marriage, would every instance of having sex with your legally wed (but not religiously wed) husband be an occasion of sin? This is how my mother was when I was growing up. She was always "in a state of sin" which caused her a lot of grief but really she wasn't doing anything "wrong" per se. She just shared a bed with her husband who wasn't Catholic... It really hurt our whole family that she was always living this guilt out. I'm sure there was more to it that I didn't know about but still, it was painful to watch.

Each persons situation is so unique that it would take a consult with a priest to get an accurate answer for the specific case. So speaking generally using that one as an example.

The problem most likely was that the marriage took place outside the Church and without a dispensation. This can be rectified by confession and talking to a priest and working out the details to get the marriage convalidated after the fact.

Once the marriage is convalidated if it's between 2 Christians it's considered a sacramental marriage. If the non Catholic party is not Christian, it's not a sacramental marriage ( since those only happen between Christians) but it is not sinful and considered perfectly licit and valid.

Also it's not totally accurate that sex outside of a sacramental marriage is a sin, if both parties are non Christians their marriage is valid and not sinful. But yes it's sinful for Catholics to have sex outside of a marriage recognized by the Church. So for Catholics, sex outside marriage=sinful, sex while married but marriage not recognized by the Church= sinful.

That's my understanding, but always best to consult a priest on such matters as they are complicated.

[Turkish Kate]

Originally Posted by momtokimari

My husband.... believes in God. But he has (often) voiced his doubts that Jesus is who he says he was/is.

I think it's less a problem with what Jesus said/claimed and more a problem with what was said/claimed in his name afterwards.

[tricia80]

Who knows that if watching you he won't be influenced to convert eventually...

I left my husband years ago d/t domestic violence, adultery etc. I am now a Christian Convert and don't believe in divorce and remarriage. So as it stands we are seperated (8yrs) and we (dd and i) pray everyday that he will come back home a Christian and lead our family properly. But as it sits now my husband is choosing Satan. In order for me to allow my husband back in our home he will have to repent and accept Jesus as his savior. I have been done wrong too many times just to allow him in.

I don't know about the whole Catholic deal since I left religion. If you are married then you have every right to have "relations" with your husband and you are not sinning. Its if you have thoughts or actions with someone other than your husband. So i don't think your mom is sinning at all.

(hope that all makes sense)

[Kyyrah]

Originally Posted by momtokimari

When you mention the husband being the leader in the faith and spirituality of a family, this doesn't pertain to all religions.

That's very true. I was referring more to the ones that do.

Or more specifically, about ones that have an active family component where each member of the family has roles.

i.e.... Jewish households have the Shabbos meal, where the mother/wife says a prayer over the candles, then the father/husband says some things, and each have a role to play.

I'm absolutely positive you can be Jewish without a man in the house, but I'm just wondering how it affects things.

[Liquesce]

Originally Posted by Kyyrah

I'm absolutely positive you can be Jewish without a man in the house, but I'm just wondering how it affects things.

I think that's it though ... wherever it is possible to be a single woman raising children within a religion, so too it is possible for a woman to be married to a non-participant in that religion. It would change the spiritual dynamic of the household, but so would being married to a non-practicing partner of the same faith, married to a partner who is disinterested in hefting the burden of a place of leadership, etc.

[Adele_Mommy]

Originally Posted by Liquesce

I think that's it though ... wherever it is possible to be a single woman raising children within a religion, so too it is possible for a woman to be married to a non-participant in that religion. It would change the spiritual dynamic of the household, but so would being married to a non-practicing partner of the same faith, married to a partner who is disinterested in hefting the burden of a place of leadership, etc.

For Orthodox Jews in particular though, being a single woman is very different from being married to a non-believer because of the element of keeping Kosher. To keep a strict Kosher house, it is my understanding that all dairy products need to be stored separately from all meat products all the time (just one example). You even need separate dishes - I don't think washing them in-between is enough. I think it would be very difficult if not impossible for a woman to keep Kosher and her husband not unless they had completely segregated areas of the kitchen.

[Irishmommy]

Originally Posted by Arduinna

Each persons situation is so unique that it would take a consult with a priest to get an accurate answer for the specific case. So speaking generally using that one as an example.

The problem most likely was that the marriage took place outside the Church and without a dispensation. This can be rectified by confession and talking to a priest and working out the details to get the marriage convalidated after the fact.

Once the marriage is convalidated if it's between 2 Christians it's considered a sacramental marriage. If the non Catholic party is not Christian, it's not a sacramental marriage ( since those only happen between Christians) but it is not sinful and considered perfectly licit and valid.

Also it's not totally accurate that sex outside of a sacramental marriage is a sin, if both parties are non Christians their marriage is valid and not sinful. But yes it's sinful for Catholics to have sex outside of a marriage recognized by the Church. So for Catholics, sex outside marriage=sinful, sex while married but marriage not recognized by the Church= sinful.

That's my understanding, but always best to consult a priest on such matters as they are complicated.

Pretty much. As long as neither party was married before. Dh was married before, and his divorce was nothing to do with me (or him, she left him for someone else). We got married in a United Church, and it's not recognized by the Catholic (my) church, as he's already married in their eyes. Legally we're fine, but not to the church. I, however, don't have any guilt about it, it's a man made rule, not a God made rule, especially since the Catholic church way back when did allow divorce.

[theretohere]

Well, I'm assuming you'd be considering converting because you feel that the religion in question has the truth? If so, I'd convert and pray about the rest.
Is there a spiritual authority you can consult, or is this a hypothetical?

[Kyyrah]

It's more or less a hypothetical. Except, not really.

I have been pagan for about a decade now but I'm considering moving in another direction. The parts of paganism I love are the theological mysteries (which are actually compatible with monotheism) and the reverence for nature (although I don't believe nature is to be worshiped) and following the wheel of the year and all that jazz. I don't worship various gods/goddesses, I don't practice magic, and I'm pretty conservative when it comes to traditional moral values... so in some ways I feel out of step with many (but certainly not all) pagans. I sound a bit flaky when trying to write all this out, but I do actually know what I'm talking about, it's just hard to put into words at the moment.

I really like Christianity in its values of love and such, but I just cannot believe in my heart that Jesus was God. I don't think God can be incarnate. And Buddhism is a bit non-theistic for me in its focus. I really like reading about it but it doesn't resonate with me totally. I am leaning towards practicing either Islam or Judaism, but neither seems practical without the support of my husband. He happens to be the type who dislikes organized religion completely. He said he would be OK if I practiced whatever, and if I raised my kids whatever, but he wouldn't participate because he doesn't believe it's necessary or worth the effort. Our beliefs are pretty compatible for the most part but he just has no desire to take his beliefs and translate them into practice, and I do.

[Liquesce]

Originally Posted by Kyyrah

I am leaning towards practicing either Islam or Judaism, but neither seems practical without the support of my husband.

I know there are both muslim mamas and jewish mamas on this board who are married to people of other faiths or no faith, if you were interested in making a post aimed at getting more specific advice.

[theretohere]

I think it's do-able to be active even with an unbeliever, but it is difficult. Peace to you.

[Bluegoat]

Have you ever read about St Monica? She was St Augustine's mother, and married to a pagan. He was, by all accounts, a jerk, and not at all respectful of her faith. In any case, she prayed for him and did her best to be a good wife and a good Christian. In the end, he converted. Of course it could have turned out quite differently, but I think the beauty of the story is that she worked hard to fulfill all the roles she had; wife, mother, and Christian woman.

As far as converting to Islam or Judaism, it seems to me that you need to ask yourself if you think that their beliefs regarding what God did are true. If the answer is yes, then you could ask a spiritual leader about your situation.

[Kyyrah]

Originally Posted by Bluegoat

Have you ever read about St Monica? She was St Augustine's mother, and married to a pagan. He was, by all accounts, a jerk, and not at all respectful of her faith. In any case, she prayed for him and did her best to be a good wife and a good Christian. In the end, he converted. Of course it could have turned out quite differently, but I think the beauty of the story is that she worked hard to fulfill all the roles she had; wife, mother, and Christian woman.

As far as converting to Islam or Judaism, it seems to me that you need to ask yourself if you think that their beliefs regarding what God did are true. If the answer is yes, then you could ask a spiritual leader about your situation.

That's a nice story about St. Monica. I remember reading something in Confessions about how he had a really nasty temper and yet she was the only wife in the neighborhood who didn't get beaten up on a regular basis, because she was submissive and knew how to pick and choose her fights. I used that paragraph as the start of a long and convoluted essay about wifely submission for a Catholic Morality class I took in college. Ah, memories - I'd totally forgotten about that! Maybe I should incorporate it into my own marriage some more. OK, that was a tangent.

Could I ask what you mean by "beliefs regarding what God did"? Like creating the world? Or talking to Muhammed (pbuh) or... I guess I'm confused.

I think I'm more in tune with Muslim beliefs but I really like Jewish customs/lifestyle. Thus my dilemma. And I would ask the Jewish/Muslim members of the board for help or advice, but I'm not sure what I would ask at this point, other than "can you pretty please convince me to join your religion, in 100 words or less?"

[Bluegoat]

Originally Posted by Kyyrah

That's a nice story about St. Monica. I remember reading something in Confessions about how he had a really nasty temper and yet she was the only wife in the neighborhood who didn't get beaten up on a regular basis, because she was submissive and knew how to pick and choose her fights. I used that paragraph as the start of a long and convoluted essay about wifely submission for a Catholic Morality class I took in college. Ah, memories - I'd totally forgotten about that! Maybe I should incorporate it into my own marriage some more. OK, that was a tangent.

Could I ask what you mean by "beliefs regarding what God did"? Like creating the world? Or talking to Muhammad (pbuh) or... I guess I'm confused.

I think I'm more in tune with Muslim beliefs but I really like Jewish customs/lifestyle. Thus my dilemma. And I would ask the Jewish/Muslim members of the board for help or advice, but I'm not sure what I would ask at this point, other than "can you pretty please convince me to join your religion, in 100 words or less?"

I bet you would get a lot of responses!

I guess what I meant is, do you think that God gave the Torah to the Jews, that he asked Abraham to sacrifice his son, that he chose him to be his people in a special way? I suppose a good question that might follow that is, ow does a person know of she is being called to convert to Judaism and join God's special people. That might be something some of the Jewish members might have some thoughts on.

And the same kind of thing with regards to Islam - did God really give a revelation to Muhammad, and if so, is that what is contained in Muslim scriptures and writings?

[kay4]

nm