I don't want to "win"

[DomerJen]

We're planning a hb, and I know that my DH hadn't thought about the fact that we'd need to make alternate plans if we were going to circumcise our baby (we don't know if it's even a boy yet).

I am very opposed to circing, but I thought it'd be unfair to him not to bring it up and then have to deal with it once the baby was here... so in the interest of fairness to him I brought it up the other day. He is one of those who just thinks it should be done, but has no reason or backup. Obviously I was ambushing him as I had researched it, so I told him that if he wants to get it done then he has to come up with a reason to convince me.

I know that I can "win" in the end... but I don't want to win. I want him to get on board with the idea that routine circing is BAD - not that he is just capitulating.

Anyone gone through a similar "fight" and had a positive outcome? Any advice on where to start the conversation?

I was thinking that it might be better to start out lighter on the reading, like trying to find a gradual base of information that starts out pretty non confrontational, and leads up to the more forceful arguments against routine circing? WDYT?

[kiara7]

Getting him to be an intactivist might be harder than you think. My dh isn't. But I don't view it as I won in that my ds is intact. I protected my son from unnecessary and harmful surgery and in the end dh did too.
The only one who won is my ds.

[A&A]

Just "win" this one, if you have to. It's too important not to.

[Cheshire]

When I first brought it up I just asked DH if we should or not. I asked him to help me look into it to find out if it was medically necessary.

He did his own research and said no - he didn't think it should be done because it isn't medically necessary.

I had just started looking into it myself when I brought it up and I wanted his input. The more we looked at it (and I would share what I found with him, usually by email, sending him links) the more we both knew it wasn't our decision but our son's to make.

Maybe help nudge him into finding the right decision on his own and he won't feel ambushed. It's worth trying first. Then, in the end if he's still adamant about it you can "win" by protecting your son. Don't fight about it until you have to.

Best wishes!

[Quirky]

My dh is on board with not circing our babies but he's no intactivist. You don't have to have him singing the praises of leaving babies intact, and sometimes pushing for that can backfire, as I found out with my own dh.

The more I talked about the harms of circ, the more resistant he got. He'd rather live in denial about a) the fact that his parents harmed him (unknowingly, but still they did) and b) the fact that he's lost forever sensations in his penis and that his penis works differently than a normal penis does.

[perspective]

Originally Posted by DomerJen

We're planning a hb, and I know that my DH hadn't thought about the fact that we'd need to make alternate plans if we were going to circumcise our baby (we don't know if it's even a boy yet).

I am very opposed to circing, but I thought it'd be unfair to him not to bring it up and then have to deal with it once the baby was here... so in the interest of fairness to him I brought it up the other day. He is one of those who just thinks it should be done, but has no reason or backup. Obviously I was ambushing him as I had researched it, so I told him that if he wants to get it done then he has to come up with a reason to convince me.

I know that I can "win" in the end... but I don't want to win. I want him to get on board with the idea that routine circing is BAD - not that he is just capitulating.

Anyone gone through a similar "fight" and had a positive outcome? Any advice on where to start the conversation?

I was thinking that it might be better to start out lighter on the reading, like trying to find a gradual base of information that starts out pretty non confrontational, and leads up to the more forceful arguments against routine circing? WDYT?

The best advice I can provide is dont focus circ itself. Dont make this a discussion about circ does bad things, dont make this a value discussion. Instead focus on the idea that he is happy with his penis, and you want your son to be happy with his own body too, and thats why you want to give him the free choice to make such personal decisions for himself.

[LavenderMae]

I think it's more about your son winning and I am positive he doesn't want to be strapped down and have part of his penis ripped and cut off soon after he enters the world.

But if it comes down to it I would 'win' if it means your son gets to keep all of his penis and not go through the pain and trauma. I would try to educate your dh of course but really it isn't about him, it's not his penis.

[sadean]

Ultimately the person who wins is your child. It is o.k. for him to win. My DH is not an inactivist, but it isn't about him. I said no and he did not fight it. Even if he had fought it, the answer would still have been no. It is not a debate for me.

[urchin_grey]

The way I convinced my then DP was I sat him down in front of the computer and made him read a page from a website of a doctor that restores foreskin. (It was also the site that convinced me!) It wasn't an anti-circ site, it was simply a page on the anatomy of the foreskin, all the purposes of those parts, and what is lost during a circ. After about 2 minutes, he got up from the computer and said "yeah, we're not doing that to him". :

My sister had a much tougher time with her DP, he's STILL not happy about it and their DS is 18mo now. He refused to ever read anything though and kept insisting that it was "nasty and it stinks" and he actually compared it to a tumor and a heart defect. Some people you just can't get through to, but I hope your DH doesn't give you that much trouble! I saw the hell my sister went through during her whole pregnancy and the days following her son's birth and I wouldn't wish that on anyone. BUT, in the end, it was worth it to her because her son is whole and healthy.

So... Do what you have to do, but if your DH isn't as stubborn as my BIL, it shouldn't be too hard. My advice though is to start where I started - I've heard too many guys say "well yeah, I'm sure it hurts, but I don't remember it" so starting with the pain argument might not be as effective as showing them that the foreskin is actually important!

[KBecks]

It may be easier and happier for both of you if you work w/ him to see that intact is OK. That's all you need. It may be too difficult for him to see circ as bad, but if you can have him see that intact is fine, he should feel OK about his status and the baby being intact. GL!

[beru]

Originally Posted by urchin_grey

The way I convinced my then DP was I sat him down in front of the computer and made him read a page from a website of a doctor that restores foreskin. (It was also the site that convinced me!) It wasn't an anti-circ site, it was simply a page on the anatomy of the foreskin, all the purposes of those parts, and what is lost during a circ.

What is this website?

[Night_Nurse]

Originally Posted by beru

What is this website?

I'm interested too, although I'm not sure if the link can be posted (I think if it shows adult skin sometimes it's not allowed and gets removed). So maybe the link can be pm'd to us???

[HotJabanero]

Originally Posted by Quirky

My dh is on board with not circing our babies but he's no intactivist. You don't have to have him singing the praises of leaving babies intact, and sometimes pushing for that can backfire, as I found out with my own dh.

The more I talked about the harms of circ, the more resistant he got. He'd rather live in denial about a) the fact that his parents harmed him (unknowingly, but still they did) and b) the fact that he's lost forever sensations in his penis and that his penis works differently than a normal penis does.

That's kind of how we are. My dh wanted circ and it took him several years to accept and know in his heart that what I was saying was true. So in my case I took the "win" and hoped for more which I got.

I also have to be careful what I say around my dh and I think you are right Quirky those two issues can be very uncomfortable for them to think about.
So my advise take the win and use gentlness to win him over to the truth.

[pigpokey]

If you aren't going to put off vaxing for a long time is you could choose Kute for your pediatrician. I have read that she has been in the past quite forceful about children being left intact. Then you could have your husband inquire about it in an interview.

If you are going to delay or non-vax you could use Owen in Decatur. She's not gonna recommend circ, and you may have to sign a statement but she's not going to demand you vax either. Whereas Kute I've heard is a bit hostile about non vax.

Did you pick a doctor for the baby yet?

[DomerJen]

Originally Posted by pigpokey

If you aren't going to put off vaxing for a long time is you could choose Kute for your pediatrician. I have read that she has been in the past quite forceful about children being left intact. Then you could have your husband inquire about it in an interview.

If you are going to delay or non-vax you could use Owen in Decatur. She's not gonna recommend circ, and you may have to sign a statement but she's not going to demand you vax either. Whereas Kute I've heard is a bit hostile about non vax.

Did you pick a doctor for the baby yet?

We haven't chosen one, yet. I'm thinking either Dr. Kute (we want to delay and maybe do some selective vax) or Dr. Sells at Intown Pediatrics? Neither is very close to where we live now (Vinings), but we might move to Midtown.

[urchin_grey]

Originally Posted by beru

What is this website?

Originally Posted by Night_Nurse

I'm interested too, although I'm not sure if the link can be posted (I think if it shows adult skin sometimes it's not allowed and gets removed). So maybe the link can be pm'd to us???

Gosh... This was almost 3 years ago so I can't remember the doctor's name. I don't think the mama that shared it with me is on MDC either. Let me do some searching on the board she shared it with me on (if its still there) and see if I can find it.

[urchin_grey]

Hmm, well, the forum is gone and I can't find anything by googling... I'm pretty sure the website addy was the doctor's name though, if that rings a bell for anyone lurking...?

[Lula's Mom]

Dr Owen is fantastic. Once we had an issue where my son had to pee in a cup for a urinalysis, and on the way into the bathroom, she told me not to retract his foreskin! I've never been crazy about any doctors, frankly, but she has been the exception. We drive from Roswell to see her. Everyone I've given her name to loves her as well.

If you think it would be helpful for DH to hear a doctor's perspective on it, you could call her and talk to her. You could get her thoughts and see if she's someone you want talking to DH about this.

[Apple Girl]

Before we had DS1, my DH was the same way - no good reason other than that it had been done to him. After many months (during pregnancy) of bringing it up in a non-confrontational way, I got him to agree that we wouldn't do it.

Change happens slowly.
Now that DS is 2, he thinks circ is "stupid and unnecessary" and can't imagine why anyone would want to do that to their wonderful little boy.

So your DH may come around!

[tpintsch]

Having a son with an intact penis is such a non-issue, that even if you push your choice through and "win" I doubt it would ever turn into a re-occuring argument. Give your DH the medical information against it, hope for an agreement, but if he doesn't agree, refuse to let it happen. Once you have your son and start living life you really won't even pay much attention to his penis, other than wiping it off. And your DH probably won't be changing the majority of the diapers (if he's anything like mine). So how often will he really see it? My son is 7 and intact, and it doesn't change our lifestyle, its really a non-issue.