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"but my doctor says that vaccines are safe..."  

post #1 of 12
Thread Starter 
good gawd. what do you say when someone tells you this? OF COURSE the docs are going to say that vaxes are safe. OF COURSE they are going to say that there is NO link from vaxes to neuro damage. DUH! don't you know that what a doctor says is always right??? that just asking your doctor is enough research??

i basically just throw my hands up and say "oh well!" i can't keep beating my head against a wall.

how do you handle it when someone who asks you question after question, just takes the doctors word for it???
post #2 of 12
Do you know how many phonecalls I get about this subject from parents?
The best thing to do is spread information around, make a list of links,download articles,photocopy /have a databook with all this info........Intelligent parents are to speak up to those illiterate ones who just flat out refuse to do their homework. Many are insainly Lazy,"Oh just listen to my Doctor he knows best"...................................
Not so! Not even close.

:
post #3 of 12
"That's because your doctor's only source of information about vaccines is the pharmaceutical industry, which has a vested interest in selling as many vaccines to as many people as possible. Do you know what's even in [vaccine name]? Because I bet your doctor doesn't. Here are some common vaccine ingredients..."

Etc.
post #4 of 12
look at the CONSEQUENCES of these massive vaccination programs and draw our own conclusions.

1. Vaccination is expensive and represents a cost of one billion dollars annually. It therefore benefits the industry; most notably, the multinational manufacturers. One sells the vaccines. The other then provides the arsenal of medications to respond to the numerous complications that follow. Their profits increase while our expenses go through the roof. To the point where we have simply had it up to here and are ready to accept the unacceptable, such as socialized medicine in the United States, for example.

2. Vaccination stimulates the immune system, the body's defense mechanism. Repeated, vaccination exhausts the immune system. It gives a false sense of security and, in doing so, it opens the door wide to all kinds of illnesses. Notably, to those related to AIDS, which can only develop on ripe ground, where the immune system has been disturbed. It causes AIDS to explode. It ensures that the illness flourishes perpetually.

3. Vaccination leads to social violence and crime. What better way to destabilize a country than to disarm its inhabitants, and reinforce police and military control? The authorities subtly create situations of panic and fear among the population which, in turn, necessitate the reinforcement of "protection measures", including forbidding citizens from owning weapons. The authorities then come across as saviours and strengthen their control. It is certain that, in order to impose a single world army, one must first disarm the citizens of every country. One must therefore create violence, if they are to achieve this disarmament, particularly in the United States where the right to bear arms is guaranteed by the Constitution.

4. Vaccination encourages medical dependence and reinforces belief in the inefficiency of the body. It creates people who need permanent assistance. It replaces the confidence one has in oneself with a blind confidence in others, outside ourselves. It leads to loss of personal dignity, in addition to making us financially dependent. It draws us into the vicious circle of sickness (fear - poverty - submission) and, in this way, ensures the submission of the herd so as to better dominate and exploit it. And then lead them to the abattoir. To slaughter.

Vaccination also encourages the moral and financial dependence of Third World countries. It perpetuates the social and economic control of Western countries over them.

5. Vaccination camouflages the real socio-political problems of poverty of some due to exploitation by others, and results in techno-scientific pseudo-solutions that are so complicated and sophisticated that patients cannot understand them. In addition, vaccination diverts funds which should be used to help improve living conditions, and channels them into the banks of the multinationals. It widens the gap between the dominant rich and the exploited poor.

6. Vaccination decimates populations. Drastically in Third World countries. Chronically in industrialized countries. In this regard, the former President of the World Bank, former Secretary of State in the United States, who ordered massive bombing of Vietnam, and member of the Expanded Program on Immunization, Robert McNamara, made some very interesting remarks. As reported by a French publication, "j'ai tout compris", he was quoted as stating:

"One must take draconian measures of demographic reduction against the will of the populations. Reducing the birth rate has proved to be impossible or insufficient. One must therefore increase the mortality rate. How? By natural means. Famine and sickness." (Translation)

7. Vaccination enables the selection of populations to be decimated. It facilitates targeted genocide. It permits one to kill people of a certain race, a certain group, a certain country. And to leave others untouched. In the name of health and well-being, of course.

Take Africa, for example. We have witnessed the almost total disappearance of certain groups. Some 50% dead, estimate the most optimistic. Some 70% dead, according to the less optimistic. As if by chance, many were in the same region, such as Zaire, Uganda, the extreme south of the Sudan. In 1967, at Marburg in Germany, seven researchers, working with green African monkeys, died of an unknown hemorrhagic fever. In 1969, also by chance, the same sickness killed one thousand people in Uganda. In 1976, a new unknown hemorrhagic fever killed in the south of Sudan. Then in Zaire.

It is noteworthy that sincel968, virologists (virus specialists) have installed their sophisticated equipment in certain hospitals in Zaire.

At a CIA hearing, Dr. Gotlieb, a cancerologist, admitted having dispersed, in 1960, a large quantity of viruses in the Congo River (in Zaire) to pollute it and contaminate all the people who used the river as their source of water. Dr. Gotlieb was named to head up the National Cancer Institute!

A couple of years ago, Reuters reported: 'An illness similar to AIDS has killed 60,000 in the south of Sudan. They call the illness, the killer. Families, whole villages, have disappeared This illness, the Kala-azar, takes the form of a fever and toss of weight. The symptoms are the same as those of AIDS The immune system is deficient and one dies of other infections."

It is obvious that Africa, particularly those countries in the center and to the south, contain fabulous resources that have always incited westerners to crush their inhabitants to take over their riches. And beware anyone who stands in their way. The colonies have disappeared. But not colonialism.

8. Vaccination serves as a form of experimentation, to test new products on a great sampling of a population. Under the guise of health and the well being of the population, people are vaccinated against a pseudo-epidemic with products that one wants to study. The vaccine of hepatitis B seems to be the choice of authorities to accomplish this goal. Yet, this vaccine is manufactured by a process of genetic manipulation. And it is much more dangerous than the traditional vaccine because it inoculates into the body cells that are foreign to its genetic code. Moreover; this vaccine is produced from virus cultivated on the ovaries of Chinese hamsters. One can only imagine what future generations will look like! But there is more. It is also reported to cause cancer of the liver. Despite all that, it enjoys great popularity among the authorities, who impose it first on all those who work in the health field, and then on the rest of the population.

In 1986, the medical authorities administered the vaccine against hepatitis B to Native Indian children in Alaska, without any explanation or the consent of their parents. Many children fell ill. And several died. It seems there was a virus called RSV (Rous Sarcoma Virus) in the vaccine. (1)

American Indian tribes have been subjected to many vaccinations. Let us be aware that they are difficult to beat into submission, and they own vast tracts of land which the authorities would like to have for their own benefit.

Recently when I met a group of Native women to chat about health with them, the subject of vaccinations cropped up. I was giving them some information on the topic when, suddenly, the group's nurse confided in me that the federal government had given her complete freedom in the management of their health, but on one strict condition. That every vaccination had to be scrupulously applied to all. The silence was deafening. We all understood.

In 1988, the Ambassador of Senegal gave a radio interview reporting on the ravages of AIDS in his country where entire villages were being decimated. A few years earlier, scientific and medical teams had come to vaccinate their inhabitants against hepatitis B.

In 1978, a new vaccine was tested on homosexuals in New York. And in 1980, on those in San Francisco, Los Angeles, Denver, Chicago, and St-Louis. Officially, this "new vaccine" was against hepatitis B and, as we now know, it caused many of them to die from AIDS. It sounded the "official" beginning of the AIDS epidemic in 1981.

The vaccination program of homosexuals against hepatitis B was led by Saint W.H.O. and the National Institute of Health . There are reports of collaboration between these two organizations in 1970 to study the consequences of certain viruses and bacteria introduced to children during vaccination campaigns. In 1972, they transformed this study to focus on the viruses which provoked a drop in the immune mechanism.

Wolf Szmuness directed the anti-hepatitis B experiments undertaken in New York. He had very close links with the Blood Centre where he had his laboratory, the National Institute of Health, the National Cancer Institute, the FDA., the W.H.O., and the Schools of Public Health of Cornell, Yale, and Harvard.

In 1994 a vast vaccination campaign against hepatitis B was undertaken in Canada. It is both useless, dangerous and costly. And what for? Is there a hidden agenda? I note that the Province of Quebec is a particular target, over the course of three years.

- 1992: vaccination against meningitis
- 1993: re-vaccination against meningitis
- 1994: vaccination against hepatitis B.

I was there in 1993. It troubled me to see that it was aimed at a whole generation (1 to 20 years), in only one province. Since when do viruses respect borders, and specially provincial ones at that? The facts are:

- There was no epidemic, nor risk of one. Epidemiologists confirmed it.
- Not one but three different vaccines were administered, each in a designated area.
- Certain nurses were selected and trained to administer a special vaccine.
- All children were entered into a computerized data bank.
- The pressure to vaccinate the children was enormous. Schools were turned into clinics. Those who did not want to be vaccinated were pointed out and treated as social outcasts.
- Nurses chased down parents at home who did not want their pre-school children vaccinated.
post #5 of 12
I told a friend recently that when a doctor (or friend whose child has had the same interventions) says something is safe or "okay" that that is their OPINION. Sure, by the standards in our present culture vaccines and epidurals and antibiotics as preventative medicine ARE OKAY... but I hold myself, my body, and the health of my children to a higher standard.
post #6 of 12
I hate that. It just tells me that they don't do any research on their own regarding any medical issue for them or their children. Ugh anyway.

I usually use the "Well drs used to think smoking was perfectly safe, xrays during pg was safe. If they can't figure those things out before people had horrible side effects I am not willing to wait around for them to figure it out with vaccines." First we aren't supposed to eat fish, now we are. Eggs are bad for you, oh wait eggs are good for you. When your pg you can eat for 2! No wait, don't gain any weight while pg. Oh I guess you better gain some weight while pg. Here you need to be knocked out to give birth, oh wait I guess that was a bad idea too, ok lets not do that anymore. I don't see how anyone can have blind faith in the medical community with that kind of history.
post #7 of 12
Where I live vaccines are administered at the public health office. I have had a large number of people tell me they just asked the public health nurse if vaccines are safe, they say yes, so they go ahead.

The public health nurses sole reason for being is to vaccinate. If they told you anything else they would be FIRED. That is a good, non-biased source of information.

I also had someone tell me that they didn't feel qualified to read medical studies (please!) so they just ask their doctor. I guess that assumes the doctor actually read any of the studies himself, which I highly doubt.

Most people don't want to take on the responsibility to make their own decisions.
post #8 of 12
this is interesting. I have to look at this from both sides. I really think it's important to know where people are coming from. I am exactly like those parents who say "but my doctor says they're safe so I'll vax my kids" except my doctor said "vaxes are not 100% safe, I suggest not vaxing"...and I don't vax.

I tried, so help me I tried to do the research on vaccines and to be honest--it is overwhelming, so overwhelming in fact that I've pretty much given up on my research. All I know is that I was given a list of all the horrible things IN a vaccine and that was enough for me, but I couldn't tell you the chances of my kids getting any certain disease or if they did get a disease what the chances of severe problems would be. I have no clue on statistics and numbers--any given article I've read completely escapes my mind moments after reading it.

Moms who are more mainstream and have mainstream doctors are not necessarily illiterate or stupid or unwilling to do any work, they just are stuck, don't know where to start--how much to read-where to find unbiased sources etc. Who else ARE they going to trust besides their doctor.

I realize the importance of doing your own research and coming to your own conclusions, I don't think many moms would say that's a bad idea...I just think a lot of moms are overwhelmed as it is and to sit and pour through medical articles (most of which seem biased to one side or the other) is just adding more crazy to their life.

ps...I totally wish I could regurgitate all the info I've read about vaccines to help give moms who simply can't bring themselves to do the research (hmm.like myself as of late) but that is a real struggle for me. Because of this, I really try to not be so hard on the other moms out there who feel overwhelmed by it too.

just my 2c
sarah
post #9 of 12
wow you are acting like a sheep
post #10 of 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by thatblondegirl View Post
good gawd. what do you say when someone tells you this? OF COURSE the docs are going to say that vaxes are safe. OF COURSE they are going to say that there is NO link from vaxes to neuro damage. DUH! don't you know that what a doctor says is always right??? that just asking your doctor is enough research??

i basically just throw my hands up and say "oh well!" i can't keep beating my head against a wall.

how do you handle it when someone who asks you question after question, just takes the doctors word for it???
If I had real research to back up my arguments, I would keep these references and peer-reviewed articles in a folder in my home and offer to photocopy them for the friend. Maybe people on this forum could put together a list of good up-to-date peer-reviewed articles just for this purpose - or better yet, articles representing both sides of the argument. Then all you'd have to do is go the library and get the original copies of the articles for yourself and copy them for friends when situations like this arise. I know I personally am a lot more convinced by data than I am by emotional arguments.
post #11 of 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by thatblondegirl View Post
good gawd. what do you say when someone tells you this? OF COURSE the docs are going to say that vaxes are safe. OF COURSE they are going to say that there is NO link from vaxes to neuro damage. DUH! don't you know that what a doctor says is always right??? that just asking your doctor is enough research??

i basically just throw my hands up and say "oh well!" i can't keep beating my head against a wall.

how do you handle it when someone who asks you question after question, just takes the doctors word for it???
And doctors used to say...
  • Bloodletting cured disease
  • Masturbation caused blindness
  • Circumcision prevented masturbation
  • Women shouldn't be awake during childbirth
Shall I go on?

I typically mention several of the above, along with the fact that the above statement is a VERY dangerous way to live. "If Timmy jumped off a bridge would you do it too? BE AN IDIVIDUAL FOR PETE'S SAKE! THINK FOR YOURSELF!!"
post #12 of 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by mamatoady View Post
I realize the importance of doing your own research and coming to your own conclusions, I don't think many moms would say that's a bad idea...I just think a lot of moms are overwhelmed as it is and to sit and pour through medical articles (most of which seem biased to one side or the other) is just adding more crazy to their life.
Thank you Sarah.

Quote:
Originally Posted by futurmama8 View Post
wow you are acting like a sheep
wow you are acting like a coyote
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Mothering › Forums › Health › Vaccinations › "but my doctor says that vaccines are safe..."