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Am I the only one who agrees with facebook?  

post #1 of 65
Thread Starter 
I must be the only MDC member who thinks that there is a profound difference between "accidental" or "incidental" breast/nipple exposure when a baby is breastfeeding in public (and if anyone has a problem with that they are jerks, IMO) and taking a photograph of your naked breast and posting it on facebook.

It is my understanding that facebook isn't calling breastfeeding "obscene", but simply classifying pictures containing areola and nipples as nudity and that is against their rules.

I must be missing something . . .
post #2 of 65
Not the only one.
post #3 of 65
The problem is some of the pictures they removed didn't show nipple or areola at all.
post #4 of 65
I totally see where you're coming from. Some of the pictures posted seemed to scream "I dare you to take down this picture!" Like they were intentionally stirring the pot. I don't know. One picture, a beautiful one if I say so myself, showed a bare breasted woman holding a newborn on her chest. No, I don't think it's obscene in the classic sense, but it had nothing to do with breastfeeding. Some people were just trying to be provocative.

Not saying that I agree with Facebook, because I don't, but some moms went too far.
post #5 of 65
I think the issue is lack of consistency. It's not just pictures showing nipples that have been pulled. Nursing pictures that show almost no skin have been removed, while provocative pictures of scantily dressed young women are not.
post #6 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by pinky View Post
I think the issue is lack of consistency. It's not just pictures showing nipples that have been pulled. Nursing pictures that show almost no skin have been removed, while provocative pictures of scantily dressed young women are not.
well this isn't cool.

I've become way more a facebook fan than a myspace fan lately
post #7 of 65
I think it is ridiculous for so many reasons.

I love this blog entry:
http://philinthecircle.com/blog2/2009/01/05/9/#comments
post #8 of 65
I also object to the issue of inconsistency. Why are women's nipples and areolas considered "obscene", while men's are not? Especially when the nipples / areolas are pictured in the context of childbirth or childrearing (birth, breastfeeding, etc.)
post #9 of 65
I have a number of friends who have practically naked (soft porn style)pictures of themselves on their facebook pages and profile pictures. The policy of taking down pics of breastfeeding is over-the-top ridiculous in the context of what is allowed to stand. Breastfeeding is definitely being singled out as unacceptable while sexy/sexual images of women's bodies are considered okay. I am not against facebook's policy as written, even if pictures of BFing women get accidently caught in their definition of nudity, but I can go see a pair of ta-tas on facebook right now as long as they aren't feeding a baby they are facebook worthy.
post #10 of 65
Also, re: the OP. Of course people have a problem with incidental nipple showing while NIP because we live in a culture where some web sites call it obscence. If it is obscene on a web site, it is obscene in real life.
post #11 of 65
it's a shame b'feeding is hitting publicity for all the wrong reasons. again.
post #12 of 65
It's the inconsistency between the very suggestive, sexual shots which are allowed up - as profile photos, and in photo albums -- yet removing photos or profile pictures which show an infant eating. What could ever be possibly obscene about an infant eating? Ever? I really want to know, what is obscene or offensive about that?

So they cling to this "nipple/areola" defense. But it is quite obvious that many of the photos which have been removed, have shown neither. Furthermore - not all areolas are the same size. I could easily post a photo of me nursing my child where no areola would show at all; my sister, whose areolas are much larger - certainly could not, at least not 'til her child is much older. So we women with small areolas are not obscene, but mothers who have larger areolas but are doing the same thing in their photos (feeding their child) are obscene? Where is the logic in that?

One of my favorite photos of my sister, ever, is immediately after she gave birth. She's topless, nursing her baby, and luminous with joy and the effort of having given birth. It's not sexual and it's not obscene. In fact, there's no areola showing and no breast showing (this sister is quite flat-chested). But if someone complained on Facebook, I'm sure it could be taken down.

When we allow feeding our children to be considered obscene and sexual, we contribute to a social atmosphere which stifles and restricts breastfeeding, an atmosphere where some (many?) women will continue to be afraid to nurse in public, afraid to nurse around friends or family - and will restrict and shorten nursing duration overall because of these social strictures.

Breastfeeding is normal. It's part of everyday life for me and for my sisters and many of my friends. Photos happen - where baby is engaged, or latched off looking at something else. Why shouldn't those photos go online? If what I am doing is legal, if I could do it in the middle of town in January without getting in trouble -- then why is Facebook saying it's wrong and obscene?

Most states now have laws specifically protecting breastfeeding in public; some have started putting in enforcement provisions, even. Yet Facebook thinks that it's OK to restrict photos which show this normal, healthy, recommended human behavior? I could sit in the office of the CEO there and nurse with impunity, per CA law - but can't post a photo of it online? There's just a serious disjunction in logic there.

It's fine for people to choose not to put their breastfeeding photos up, or even not to take them at all. Women can choose to only nurse at home, only nurse under a cape, or etc. It's up to each woman to decide what is comfortable for her within the misogynistic social strictures we live with -- how far or even if she want to buck those expectations. But the bottom line is that breastfeeding is not wrong, it's not sexual, and it's not obscene. And to treat it that way, whether in person or in regards to online photos, is offensive. It should offend women who only nurse in their bedrooms and not even in front of their husbands, as much as it offends women who are comfortable nursing in public without any qualms at all - because they are telling us that what we do, as mothers who breastfeed, is obscene and sexual.
post #13 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by elanorh View Post
When we allow feeding our children to be considered obscene and sexual, we contribute to a social atmosphere which stifles and restricts breastfeeding, an atmosphere where some (many?) women will continue to be afraid to nurse in public, afraid to nurse around friends or family - and will restrict and shorten nursing duration overall because of these social strictures.

Breastfeeding is normal. It's part of everyday life for me and for my sisters and many of my friends. Photos happen - where baby is engaged, or latched off looking at something else. Why shouldn't those photos go online? If what I am doing is legal, if I could do it in the middle of town in January without getting in trouble -- then why is Facebook saying it's wrong and obscene?
Amen.

Repeat after me:

It's not sexual. It CAN'T be obscene.
It's not sexual. It CAN'T be obscene.
post #14 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by elanorh View Post
women will continue to be afraid to nurse in public, afraid to nurse around friends or family - and will restrict and shorten nursing duration overall because of these social strictures.
many many many many many have already shortened to to "not at all" I was discusted to hear people at a recent WIC breastfeeding class say "I don't know why I have to be here, I'm not BFing thats nasty"

or the ever classic, "My husband doesn't want me to breastfeed because it will ruin my boobs, or he thinks its gross" :
post #15 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by ramama View Post
I totally see where you're coming from. Some of the pictures posted seemed to scream "I dare you to take down this picture!" Like they were intentionally stirring the pot. I don't know. One picture, a beautiful one if I say so myself, showed a bare breasted woman holding a newborn on her chest. No, I don't think it's obscene in the classic sense, but it had nothing to do with breastfeeding. Some people were just trying to be provocative.

Not saying that I agree with Facebook, because I don't, but some moms went too far.
:
post #16 of 65
Again, I do not agree with Facebook, but there are women who posted pictures of themselves breastfeeding on one breast while the other one was completely bared. *I* do not think it's obscene, but I think it's dishonest to say that a picture was removed because it depicted BFing, when we all know the reason was because of the other completely naked breast. It just cheapens the cause and turns people off.
post #17 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by kriket View Post
or the ever classic, "My husband doesn't want me to breastfeed because it will ruin my boobs, or he thinks its gross" :
That is so sad. If my DH felt that way, well, he never would have become my DH in the first place. Yeah, it's that important to me. Why do women think that any other person on the earth should have any say whatsoever in whether they BF or not? Why give up our biological ability to do something so wonderful for someone who thinks it's icky? Grrrr....
post #18 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by ramama View Post
Again, I do not agree with Facebook, but there are women who posted pictures of themselves breastfeeding on one breast while the other one was completely bared. *I* do not think it's obscene, but I think it's dishonest to say that a picture was removed because it depicted BFing, when we all know the reason was because of the other completely naked breast. It just cheapens the cause and turns people off.
Exactly. I personally don't find too much obscene, but I understand why FB has the policy.There was a list of pics that noted that they were deleted and I understood why each one was. Just because you are BFing, it's not really necessary to have your other bare breast out.

I don't have a problem with the pics, but I don't think it's the place for some of them.

I love BFing and I've done it everywhere. I BFed in line for a ride at Disney, so I'm not overly modest. I think that some of the pics actually made FB's point and didn't do lactivism and favors.
post #19 of 65
The problem is that focusing on the 'ones who went too far' allows all the women we didn't think were doing anything wrong, to still be punished.

It's really common to justify penalizing or attacking a group of people, by focusing on the ones who push the edges of that group. Witness the ugly language which is sometimes used about lactivists, or the anger about lactivism which is centered upon a bad experience with one particular person who called herself a lactivist.

There are people who think that women who nurse in public are obscene. There are, in fact, women who breastfeed exclusively who think this. When we start drawing lines in the sand and saying the people on one side are 'acceptable' and the other side is 'obscene,' IMO things get really shaky.

I nurse with both breasts exposed, often, while at home. I don't do so in public. Doesn't mean that my kiddo doesn't think I ought to, in public, though. So far we haven't had an accidental 'outting' but it could happen. And when I was first nursing, I'd have been mortified. I was a blanket mom in the beginning.

But it all comes down, in the end, to -- feeding a child is not obscene. It is not sexual. It is not wrong. And the moms with photos of themselves with one breast completely exposed while breastfeeding, would have found not one state in the USA where there was a law *against* breastfeeding like that, and many where the letter of the law would have protected breastfeeding like that.

I honestly hope that by the time I have grandchildren nursing their own children, that people roll their eyes about this whole 'modesty' and 'covering up' attitude in re: breastfeeding.

Why is it important that [women only] keep breasts covered up even while nursing as much as humanly possible, because [only female] breasts are deemed sexual -- but we don't make men do the same, and we don't make people keep their mouths covered? Think about what can and is done with mouths, sexually, yet we walk around smiling, and drinking coffee, and guffawing at jokes, and eating food with those same mouths uncovered. WOW.
post #20 of 65
Exactly. I saw a bunch of pictures that were deleted. None were baring the other breast and certainly none were obscene. This attitude towards breastfeeding sickens me. the ones who push the envelope Or "go too far" are the ones who make things better for the average joe.
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